World Famous Atheists, Agnostics and Non Theists

[Bodhi]

You misread his post. He said the mind plays tricks on people.

 

[alissowack]

@westbrooklyn. Yeah, but he is saying that some people are claiming that "mind games" is proof for the existence of God. I can see if maybe he said people are tricked to believe that God exists but to make it evidence for God existence is a bit of a stretch. I know that's not what he intended to say, but the sentence structure says otherwise.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

@westbrooklyn. Yeah, but he is saying that some people are claiming that "mind games" is proof for the existence of God. I can see if maybe he said people are tricked to believe that God exists but to make it evidence for God existence is a bit of a stretch. I know that's not what he intended to say, but the sentence structure says otherwise.

I'm saying people have delusions or extra sensory experiences and claim them to be divine messages and a personal proof. People also use tricks to influence others perception by preying on them when they're at their most vulnerable. Destroy and rebuild. Sketchy evidence is still better then no evidence. The critical point is whether you choose to question such evidence if there is any to speak of.

 

[ohhhla]

Did this guy compare the invisible magical man to the American Gov't?

*This Can't Be Life plays*

 

[janklow]

Like there's seriously no good reason to believe in a god or gods.

someone seems to be forgetting the excellent reason of "because it pisses off insufferable people like Richard Dawkins"

 

[alissowack]

Did this guy compare the invisible magical man to the American Gov't?

*This Can't Be Life plays*

That "comparison" was only meant for effect. I'm essentially saying there are a lot of things that let us down in life...and there is evidence for why those things let us down, but for some reason we sometimes are led to believe that maybe the next time around it will be different. You say there is no good reason to believe in God, but what about everything else?

 

[ohhhla]

Prove God, right now.

Since the burden of proof is on the claimer.

If you do that, I will stop posting.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Did this guy compare the invisible magical man to the American Gov't?

*This Can't Be Life plays*

That "comparison" was only meant for effect. I'm essentially saying there are a lot of things that let us down in life...and there is evidence for why those things let us down, but for some reason we sometimes are led to believe that maybe the next time around it will be different. You say there is no good reason to believe in God, but what about everything else?

Evidence has nothing at all to do with how we feel about it or if it disappoints us. It's there to prove the existence and relevancy or capability of something. There is nothing about God that will "let me down" unless I'm talking about the God in my head. I let my self down often, should i just believe in God now? That's a giant leap of logic. The difference is; disappointment or not; wrong or right, i can go back to the drawing board, and there's a board to draw on with pencils and paint. Your statement seems to focus on the reality of existence and if you don't believe your here or everything are tricking your perception, then you should be diagnosed.

 

[alissowack]

Prove God, right now.

Since the burden of proof is on the claimer.

If you do that, I will stop posting.

No you won't. Where have I even begun to claim God existence in what I have posted? I'm just making a point about what you posted. I would much rather you have posted that you didn't agree with the point I was making about needing a good reason to believe in anything than to just "change the subject". The thing is that it doesn't matter if someone proves or disproves God if God exists regardless of it.

Generally speaking, why would anybody need to believe that you exist...in order for you to exist? Your existence is not depended on who knows you or not. Many people have lived and died not knowing who you are and you are still here. Why wouldn't God be any different?

 

[Bodhi]

Generally speaking, why would anybody need to believe that you exist...in order for you to exist? Your existence is not depended on who knows you or not. Many people have lived and died not knowing who you are and you are still here. Why wouldn't God be any different?

Because supposedly the Bible god wants mankind to know and accept him. If we're talking something like deism, then it's different but the Christian god is personal.

 

[alissowack]

Generally speaking, why would anybody need to believe that you exist...in order for you to exist? Your existence is not depended on who knows you or not. Many people have lived and died not knowing who you are and you are still here. Why wouldn't God be any different?

Because supposedly the Bible god wants mankind to know and accept him. If we're talking something like deism, then it's different but the Christian god is personal.

You are right is saying that God (of the Bible) wants mankind to know Him and accept Him. But, does it mean that God ceases to exist because someone doesn't want to know God...or doesn't believe that He exists? Does He need the approval of His believers to survive?

Now it's possible for God's Existence to be a matter of relevance. I've heard it said by posters they don't need God when it comes to matters of decisions and actions and there is a certain "truth" to it. Hey...you don't need me for matters of your life. But, just to say that God is depended on man's brain power to have life put's God in a position where He really doesn't have a life of His Own. He just goes wherever the wind blows and when we die, God dies with us.

 

[Bodhi]

Now it's possible for God's Existence to be a matter of relevance. I've heard it said by posters they don't need God when it comes to matters of decisions and actions and there is a certain "truth" to it. Hey...you don't need me for matters of your life. But, just to say that God is depended on man's brain power to have life put's God in a position where He really doesn't have a life of His Own. He just goes wherever the wind blows and when we die, God dies with us.

I think you missed the point inferred from those type of statements. The point is that man's mind created god, not the other way around. So, god's "existence" is in the minds of man, and not actually real; like an imaginary friend.

 

[alissowack]

Now it's possible for God's Existence to be a matter of relevance. I've heard it said by posters they don't need God when it comes to matters of decisions and actions and there is a certain "truth" to it. Hey...you don't need me for matters of your life. But, just to say that God is depended on man's brain power to have life put's God in a position where He really doesn't have a life of His Own. He just goes wherever the wind blows and when we die, God dies with us.

I think you missed the point inferred from those type of statements. The point is that man's mind created god, not the other way around. So, god's "existence" is in the minds of man, and not actually real; like an imaginary friend.

But, you are not seeing the point that I am trying to make. If God exists, the deity is not depended on what we think or what we "imagine". God would exist apart from who we are. As far we know, the perceptions and presuppositions we have about God are imaginary. Just because I (or anybody else for that matter) can read a Bible doesn't mean that I am an authority in saying who He is or is not. I can think you are from West Brooklyn according to your avatar name. I could be right, I could be wrong. But I can't think that means that you submit to where I think you are from. It's the other way around.

 

[Bodhi]

But, you are not seeing the point that I am trying to make. If God exists, the deity is not depended on what we think or what we "imagine". God would exist apart from who we are. As far we know, the perceptions and presuppositions we have about God are imaginary. Just because I (or anybody else for that matter) can read a Bible doesn't mean that I am an authority in saying who He is or is not. I can think you are from West Brooklyn according to your avatar name. I could be right, I could be wrong. But I can't think that means that you submit to where I think you are from. It's the other way around.

does anything exist apart from what we are?

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Now it's possible for God's Existence to be a matter of relevance. I've heard it said by posters they don't need God when it comes to matters of decisions and actions and there is a certain "truth" to it. Hey...you don't need me for matters of your life. But, just to say that God is depended on man's brain power to have life put's God in a position where He really doesn't have a life of His Own. He just goes wherever the wind blows and when we die, God dies with us.

I think you missed the point inferred from those type of statements. The point is that man's mind created god, not the other way around. So, god's "existence" is in the minds of man, and not actually real; like an imaginary friend.

But, you are not seeing the point that I am trying to make. If God exists, the deity is not depended on what we think or what we "imagine". God would exist apart from who we are. As far we know, the perceptions and presuppositions we have about God are imaginary. Just because I (or anybody else for that matter) can read a Bible doesn't mean that I am an authority in saying who He is or is not. I can think you are from West Brooklyn according to your avatar name. I could be right, I could be wrong. But I can't think that means that you submit to where I think you are from. It's the other way around.

I think to make such a statement, you would have to consider where God would fit into the current universe as we know it. We don't know a lot but, we can infer much with what we do know and the concept of God as offered as to adhere to certain laws in order to create us and interact with us. It's like dark matter being unobservable other then the fact that it affects other forces in the universe. Many thought there was a real hell below the earth at a point and described it using things that would apply to what is actually beneath the earth, fire and brimstone. Also, why does the current state of the universe require a builder? Why can the universe not be self sustaining without requiring outside factors like the eternity that is granted to God? Your already giving God human persona when you use words like "He".

 

[bambu]

This thread is to pay homage to world famous non theists who contributed to the universe and the lives of humanity. Thread will be updated daily.

 

[Bodhi]

As far we know, the perceptions and presuppositions we have about God are imaginary.

Including or excluding the idea that he exists?

 

[alissowack]

As far we know, the perceptions and presuppositions we have about God are imaginary.

Including or excluding the idea that he exists?

Including. The thing is this. There is nothing particularly wrong with having an idea about the existence of God. I think it's harmless to say that if God exists, that the deity is a being that transcends time and space; that is not bound by the limitations we have and this deity can chose to act however, whenever, wherever and with whoever. It is when we take it upon ourselves to think that God would need us to assign an identity or a set of "things a deity is suppose to do" that creates the strife. And if we just happen to know who this deity is, it doesn't add or take away from the being's own sense of self. It's more of an acknowledgement we make to ourselves than reminders just in case this deity is uncertain of self.

I think you know my "religion" and I tried my best to refrain from using "He" or "Him" (only because FuriousOne pointed out) but now in respect to Christianity I will let loose. I believe God is who He says He is in the Bible. It doesn't necessarily mean I agree or disagree with what is said, but it is to say that if it is true...I am in no position to say that I created God to be who He is or that God needs my help.

 

[alissowack]

Now it's possible for God's Existence to be a matter of relevance. I've heard it said by posters they don't need God when it comes to matters of decisions and actions and there is a certain "truth" to it. Hey...you don't need me for matters of your life. But, just to say that God is depended on man's brain power to have life put's God in a position where He really doesn't have a life of His Own. He just goes wherever the wind blows and when we die, God dies with us.

I think you missed the point inferred from those type of statements. The point is that man's mind created god, not the other way around. So, god's "existence" is in the minds of man, and not actually real; like an imaginary friend.

But, you are not seeing the point that I am trying to make. If God exists, the deity is not depended on what we think or what we "imagine". God would exist apart from who we are. As far we know, the perceptions and presuppositions we have about God are imaginary. Just because I (or anybody else for that matter) can read a Bible doesn't mean that I am an authority in saying who He is or is not. I can think you are from West Brooklyn according to your avatar name. I could be right, I could be wrong. But I can't think that means that you submit to where I think you are from. It's the other way around.

I think to make such a statement, you would have to consider where God would fit into the current universe as we know it. We don't know a lot but, we can infer much with what we do know and the concept of God as offered as to adhere to certain laws in order to create us and interact with us. It's like dark matter being unobservable other then the fact that it affects other forces in the universe. Many thought there was a real hell below the earth at a point and described it using things that would apply to what is actually beneath the earth, fire and brimstone. Also, why does the current state of the universe require a builder? Why can the universe not be self sustaining without requiring outside factors like the eternity that is granted to God? Your already giving God human persona when you use words like "He".

I think that where we go wrong. We are putting ourselves in a position we are saying that God must conform to us instead of the other way around. It's not just the non-believers, but the believers as well. I gave a harmless concept of God in the previous post as transcending time and space, not bound to the limitations we have and can do whatever, however, whenever, wherever and with whoever. If this is true, then no one can conclude that they have done anything to stretch infinity any further for this deity. We are not in a position to question intentions...God questions ours.

 

[Bodhi]

Including.

Then why even entertain the idea?

I think it's harmless to say that if God exists, that the deity is a being that transcends time and space

How could a being outside of time interact with cause and effect in our universe? Anything outside of cause and effect would not be able to interact with it. Anything outside of time could not act in any way like a person. If he were to "act" at all, he could only "act" once and that would lead us in the direction of something like a quantum vaccuum. A being outside of time cannot do whatever, whenever, however, and with whoever for the simple fact that it is outside time.

I believe God is who He says He is in the Bible

On one end, you say that the presuppositions and perceptions we have of God could be wrong and on the other, you say you completely believe the Bible. While I admit, I admire the fact that you are at least honest about the fact that you could be wrong (and I believe you are), from a Christian perspective, all we know; all the perceptions and presuppositions we have of God come from the Bible. So, ultimately, the Bible could be wrong, and on many points, it is.