Why couldn't Jay blow up when Big and Pac were alive?

[almighty breeze]

What this thread ignores is that Biggie had a vested interest in Jay-Z's success. People gloss over things that dont fit their agenda. Jay was more in no mans land than he was anyones "lil nigga" BIG had a lil nigga and it was Cease.

There was also in New York a large desire to HEAR Jay-Zs debut. not nationally and not to the tune of huge advertisements and promotional backing (indie vs major debate people were saying). The Nas beef stems originally from him agreeing to and then not appearin on Can I Live or some song off RD. So there u have off the bat the two biggest & most respected NY MC's on one rappers debut. That woulda been somethin no one can claim. Platinum plaque or not....It goes against logic to say that Jay-Z was such a nobody that the biggest rapper in hip hop was his friend & frequent collaborator and that the 2nd biggest went out of his way to diss him.

Mobb Deep

Nas

BIG

Jay-Z

this is who Pac viewed as the East Coast according to song. who he named specifically. So this contradicts the nobody/lil nigga theory. If we agree that there "was so much quality in hip hop & NY at the time" then if Jay was a nobody who no one knew or cared about someone else's name would be here. Mobb had no affilation with BIG so that doesnt fly. neither did Nas.

No,Jay got dissed by Pac because he was cool with Big,and because of the line on BK's finest "If Faith have twins..."

is from Jay's album also the subtle diss in the Dead Presidents video when they're playing Monopoly "What's that

California ?,There's a lotta money there Imma take all of it ", Nas got dissed because of the song the Message that

Pac thought was aimed at him "Fake Thug,no love you get the slug..." . Pac had those Emcees fearful to even say

his name in verse,the only time Big does it is subliminally on BK's finest.

minus the Pac dickeating you proved my point. You think you're proving yours by flexing your 2pac knowledge but its inconsequential to the overall and more important Theme/Question asked in this thread

 

[almighty breeze]

What this thread ignores is that Biggie had a vested interest in Jay-Z's success. People gloss over things that dont fit their agenda. Jay was more in no mans land than he was anyones "lil nigga" BIG had a lil nigga and it was Cease.

There was also in New York a large desire to HEAR Jay-Zs debut. not nationally and not to the tune of huge advertisements and promotional backing (indie vs major debate people were saying). The Nas beef stems originally from him agreeing to and then not appearin on Can I Live or some song off RD. So there u have off the bat the two biggest & most respected NY MC's on one rappers debut. That woulda been somethin no one can claim. Platinum plaque or not....It goes against logic to say that Jay-Z was such a nobody that the biggest rapper in hip hop was his friend & frequent collaborator and that the 2nd biggest went out of his way to diss him.

Mobb Deep

Nas

BIG

Jay-Z

this is who Pac viewed as the East Coast according to song. who he named specifically. So this contradicts the nobody/lil nigga theory. If we agree that there "was so much quality in hip hop & NY at the time" then if Jay was a nobody who no one knew or cared about someone else's name would be here. Mobb had no affilation with BIG so that doesnt fly. neither did Nas.

No,Jay got dissed by Pac because he was cool with Big,and because of the line on BK's finest "If Faith have twins..."

is from Jay's album also the subtle diss in the Dead Presidents video when they're playing Monopoly "What's that

California ?,There's a lotta money there Imma take all of it ", Nas got dissed because of the song the Message that

Pac thought was aimed at him "Fake Thug,no love you get the slug..." . Pac had those Emcees fearful to even say

his name in verse,the only time Big does it is subliminally on BK's finest.

And even then it could be argued that that line was more about exposing Faith. New York niggas was shook as fuck to say the word tupac with distain on wax back then

Or what?? What was gonna happen? lmao @ this bold face lie. 2pac fans will tell u he was the first to lead an army to India if you dont check 'em. Just b/c you parrot & regurgitate the same "Pac had the game shook" line doesnt make it true

niggas knew Pac was just being an attention when it came to that. But thats off topic anyway

 

[DOPEdweebz]

Cuz he made Volume 2 after they died.

 

[OGClarenceBoddicker]

"Had to turn away when Tony killed Manolo">>>>>>>>>>Biggie discography

 

[uncommonsense]

Being from Houston, Pac made it where I wouldn't even give J' a chance. It wasn't until after he died I was able to appreciate his music.

 

[Mr. Caesar]

To answer some of your points:

Jay’s first album dropped in the spring of ’96; three months after All Eyez on Me, four months before Pac died; and on an indie label (Roc-A-Fella/Priority) with a small budget. He wasn’t a franchise player with a multimillion dollar promo budget, as Pac (Death Row/Interscope) and Big (Bad Boy/Arista) were; and as Nas had with Sony for It Was Written. Jay also didn’t have a marketing wiz backing his play when he dropped, like Nas had with Steve Stoute, who constructed the marketing plan for It Was Written. Even still, Jay and his partners moved close to a million units practically on their own, and their indie hustle led to them writing their own ticket with Def Jam later.

It’s debatable whether Jay would’ve blew as large as he did had Pac and Big lived; but he still had the skill set to become a force in the game, regardless of whether he had them to compete against. As another poster mentioned, you could use Michael Jordan for comparison. It took MJ seven years to win a championship, because Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Isiah Thomas were all in his way at some point. But MJ was still a legend in the making, and eventually he got his rings. Say what you will about Jay, but he showed a mastery at record-making and marketing from the start, so he might’ve blown up anyway, no matter the competition.

 

[ohhhla]

LOL@ those who think wasn't on a indie label.

Just lol.

 

[Hero!387]

Big kinda filled the lane that Jay wanted to occupy with Big around there was no room for Jay. That lane of the Brooklyn cat with the smooth flow who made addictive party and dance cuts and jams for the ladies but was still a grade A hustler was occupied by Big. Why would anyone go to the second best thing (Jay) when the first best thing was still around. Once Big was out of the picture, the lane was opened up. It's the same thing with Jay and Fabolous. A big part of the reason Fab never became a real main event player in the rap game is cuz Jay had his lane occupied. Unfortunately for him Jay hasn't passed away or stopped rapping yet.

 

[spit_fiya]

Did money aint a thang and that foxy brown joint drop before Big died? If so, he had already blew up.

 

[loch121]

Jay did blow up while Big and Pac were alive

Pac had Deathrow and Interscope and BIG had Arista so they were bigger acts w/ more promo

Meanwhile Jay was popping it off on Payday and Priority

Jay was already an NYC legend from back w/ Jaz O before BIG or Pac were out

BIG knew Jay was on his heels that's why he fucked w/ him and Pac knew so he dissed him

Jay is one of the best and to me he's lyrically nicer than BIG.Word for word Jay is way more intricate

 

[ohhhla]

Jay did blow up while Big and Pac were alive

Pac had Deathrow and Interscope and BIG had Arista so they were bigger acts w/ more promo

Meanwhile Jay was popping it off on Payday and Priority

Jay was already an NYC legend from back w/ Jaz O before BIG or Pac were out

BIG knew Jay was on his heels that's why he fucked w/ him and Pac knew so he dissed him

Jay is one of the best and to me he's lyrically nicer than BIG.Word for word Jay is way more intricate

INB4 the camel biting lyrics from the late great B.I.G.

 

[aneed123]

Being from Houston, Pac made it where I wouldn't even give J' a chance. It wasn't until after he died I was able to appreciate his music.

exactly... folk outside of NY seem to not comprehend this.... I know many a nigga that was like fuck Jay Big and Nas cuz Pac dissed them. Not many in the south fucked with Jay until after they dies and the annie song dropped.....

 

[N YO HOOD]

seems pretty simple to me big was holding that spot, big died jay stepped in, you can only have one nigga at the top

 

[ohhhla]

Why didn't Pac go platinum during NWA days?