Which of These Music Genres Was Most Influential in the "Creation "of Hip-Hop Music?

[Matike85]

You forgot Rock & Roll bruh

 

[LUClEN]

Funky drummer

 

[THE_R_]

JAZZ & REGGAE

 

[Stew]

Probably funk and soul. Don't think u can just name one cause of all of the samples used.

 

[playmaker88]

Funk, jazz

 

[AZTG]

When hip hop first started it was all about the beat and partied. There was some rapping going on but the rapping was secondary to the beat. People really didnt start rapping as we know it till bout 10 years after hip hop started, thats why I dont think we can say spoken word was one of the main influences of where hip hop originated.

 

[Plutarch]

You forgot Rock & Roll bruh

I just wanted to focus on those four in particular, but do you think rock is more influential than the four I listed? If so, care to explain? Not disagreeing, just curious.

 

[Plutarch]

JAZZ & REGGAE

Jazz? Care to explain?

Reggae? Yeah.

"When Did Reggae Become Rap?"

When did Jamaican dance hall reggae become rap? Are we not putting the carriage before the horse? Contrary to what many may say Rap can trace its origins directly from Jamaican Dub Reggae & Jamaican style toasting. It is a fact that isn’t talked about by many in the main stream media but many of the early pioneers (DJ Herc) and newer rappers (Busta Rhymes, Notorious B.I.G and Redman) in the American rap era are Jamaican immigrants or children of Jamaican immigrants in NY. One does not have to look very far to see the relationship between the two as we now see rap and dancehall reggae merging. This would not be possible if there were not the similarities as the child is now beginning to return to the parent. Jamaican dejaying came out of a form a rhyming and talking over music called “Toasting”. Rapping began as a variation on the toasting

Jamaican sound systems (Mobile Discotheques) have been toasting since the early 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. Jamaican toasting was developed at blues dances which were free dances mainly in Jamaican ghettos where sound systems battled each other playing American R& B, Jamaican Ska and Rock Steady. Popular dance venues included Foresters Hall, Twary Crescent (Duke, Sir Cox Sound, King Edwards, Mighty Bell), & Central Road. Surprisingly some of the earliest signs of toasting can be found in songs by folk historian and entertainer the Honorable Dr. Louise Bennett-Coverley fondly known to many as “Miss Lou”.

The sound systems had a Deejay whose primary responsibility was to play the records and then there was the MC who was responsible for setting the mood with the crowd by “toasting”. Record producers used to leave one side of a new 45 with just the instruments or “rhythm” which was called “the version of the song”. These versions are where many of MCs of the sound systems in Jamaica would do a rhyme or toast to entertain the audience. MC’s would battle each other (just like rappers did) to see who could do the best rhyme or toast. They would cover topics ranging from what people were wearing at the dance, to culture, politics and commentary. Like the early beginning of its predecessor rap; most of it was good natured and humorous. The rhyme started with phrases like ‘wuk it up man’.

Ewart ‘U-Roy’ Beckford, King Sporty, Dennis Alcapone, Scotty, Prince Buster, Sir Coxsone, Duke Reid are all early leaders in toasting in Jamaica. They would be followed later by deejays like Big Youth, Jah Stitch and I Roy. They were followed by Yellowman, Charlie Chaplin and General Echo.

Duke Reid was one of Jamaica’s most popular early DJ’s. He was known to wear outrageous costumes. His most popular costume was a dark cloak where he hid his cowboy holster and guns. You could also hear “toasting” on the radio during 1958- 1959 on the Treasure Isles time Radio Program with King Sporty.

Many of the artists involved in the birth of rap in New York were either Jamaican or have Jamaican parentage. The seeds were planted for rap music when Jamaican Clive ‘Kool Herc’ Campbell migrated to the Bronx NY 1967 at age 13. He put together a sound system patterned off what he saw growing up in Jamaica and started to draw crowds to his dances. Influenced by the Jamaican style of toasting he used this technique on American R&B, funk, disco, soul and funk. During the song’s 30-40 sec instrumental break he would “toast”. He realized he needed a way to extend the instrumental break so he started to experiment with 2 turntables. He was the first to use two turntables techniques to extend the break by playing the same record. This allowed more ‘toasting’ which like its Jamaican counterpart encouraged people to dance. He pioneered “breaks” in songs. He recruited dancers as a part of his MC dance team. These dancers would be featured mainly during the breaks and would later be called break-dancers. Campbell was just one of the many Jamaicans who influence rap directly.

Today we have Beenie man, Elephant man and Sean Paul who are now influencing Rap. Without a doubt Jamaican deejay style was the foundation for American rap music and needs to be recognized as such.

A few Sources: Evolution of Rap by Steven Hager, The Rough Guide to Reggae by Steve Barrow, Cut N Mix by Dick Hebdige, The Tennors (Rock Steady/Reggae group), Derrick Morgan (King of Ska).

"When Did Reggae Become Rap?"

 

[Plutarch]

But there are those who disagree. Couple of erroneous counterpoints to the above article:

Lies. Hip Hop is 100% African American, no Jamaican influence.

Hip Hop is 100% African American, not Jamaican and certainly not Puerto Rican. Hip Hop is a continuation of older African American genres, which happen to be Disco, Soul, Funk, and Jazz. All of those genres are 100% African American, not Jamaican, not Puerto Rican. The art of rapping descends from older African American oral traditions, not Jamaican toasting. Rapping descends from field hollers(slavery/sharecropping days), the dozens, signifying, African American poetry(For example, the movie Chiraq and its rhyme scheme would exist without Hip Hop), African American preachers and pimps, as well cats like Muhammad Ali, Rudy Ray Moore, James Brown, Pigmeat Markham and many others. All are African American. African Americans were break dancing in the early 1900s as evidenced in this very video. Hip Hop DJs descend from Disco DJs, both are African American, not Jamaican. Grafitti existed in the African American community in Philly before Hip Hop was even a thing. Latinos had no role in the creation of Hip Hop. They were nothing more than early non-black participants.

In response to the above:

thank you. I get tired of people always trynna lay claim to history that isn't theirs. Anyone who has truly studied the history of this country and the black folks of this country, they'd know this.

 

[Matike85]

You forgot Rock & Roll bruh

I just wanted to focus on those four in particular, but do you think rock is more influential than the four I listed? If so, care to explain? Not disagreeing, just curious.

The Punk Rock scene of the 70's until the earlier 80's help Hip Hop acceptance with White America ... 1950's & 1960's Rock & Roll influence Hip Hop because just like Rock & Roll it was created by Black People in America ...just like Rock & Roll its was consider Devil Music within the Black Community mainstream media who did not understand the struggle of Streets in the 70's,80's, & 90's.... And Just like Rock & Roll many people even Eminem himself consider himself Elvis of the Hip Hop. and just like Rock & Roll in the 1960's it's the most popular music and genre of its generation.

 

[5 Grand]

What do David Bowie, Skrillex and Hanson have in common with Big Daddy Kane, Public Enemy and Kanye West?

All of them have sampled music that was spotlighted on the Ultimate Breaks & Beats series, a collection of 25 vinyl albums featuring songs with unforgettable funky rhythms. The series launched in 1986 and became the foundation of hip-hop, dance and pop music for the next three decades and beyond.

“Breaks” or “breakbeats” first emerged in the formative days of the early 1970s, when a DJ in the Bronx, New York named Kool Herc popularized a sound based around the hard funk drums of James Brown. Herc kept the dancefloor jumping by isolating parts of the records with the “breakdown” — typically in the form of a percussion solo. Since these sections would always generate the most excitement from the dancers, why not continue the energy using two copies of the record? Herc’s cutting-edge practice of extending the break led to the emergence of “break boys” (aka b-boys), who would take the opportunity to showcase their best dance moves during these passages, hence the term “break dancing.”

This brilliantly effective DJ technique continued to evolve, as pioneers such as Afrika Bambaataa drew a big following with obscure, funky records that no one else thought to play. Grandmaster Flash mastered the technical aspects of the form, advancing the art of playing the same section of a song endlessly on two turntables — allowing MCs to keep the crowd entertained by chanting phrases over the beats. This vocal party-rocking eventually morphed into what we now consider rapping.
https://medium.com/cuepoint/ultimate-breaks-beats-an-oral-history-74937f932026

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/1075570?ev=rb

 

[playmaker88]

Jazz think of the improv aspect

 

[5 Grand]

What do David Bowie, Skrillex and Hanson have in common with Big Daddy Kane, Public Enemy and Kanye West?

All of them have sampled music that was spotlighted on the Ultimate Breaks & Beats series, a collection of 25 vinyl albums featuring songs with unforgettable funky rhythms. The series launched in 1986 and became the foundation of hip-hop, dance and pop music for the next three decades and beyond.

“Breaks” or “breakbeats” first emerged in the formative days of the early 1970s, when a DJ in the Bronx, New York named Kool Herc popularized a sound based around the hard funk drums of James Brown. Herc kept the dancefloor jumping by isolating parts of the records with the “breakdown” — typically in the form of a percussion solo. Since these sections would always generate the most excitement from the dancers, why not continue the energy using two copies of the record? Herc’s cutting-edge practice of extending the break led to the emergence of “break boys” (aka b-boys), who would take the opportunity to showcase their best dance moves during these passages, hence the term “break dancing.”

This brilliantly effective DJ technique continued to evolve, as pioneers such as Afrika Bambaataa drew a big following with obscure, funky records that no one else thought to play. Grandmaster Flash mastered the technical aspects of the form, advancing the art of playing the same section of a song endlessly on two turntables — allowing MCs to keep the crowd entertained by chanting phrases over the beats. This vocal party-rocking eventually morphed into what we now consider rapping.
https://medium.com/cuepoint/ultimate-breaks-beats-an-oral-history-74937f932026

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/1075570?ev=rb

Edit.

Here's a mix that Kid Capri did just using the Ultimate Breaks & Beats records.
=RDQMYYOtXM5Pv7g

 

[LUClEN]

JAZZ & REGGAE

Jazz? Care to explain?

The improvisation in hip-hop and freestyle rap

 

[5 Grand]

^^^ In my earlier post I posted the Ultimate Breaks & Beats compilation, which is where the DJs got the breaks from.

In the next posts I'll post some 70s rap albums that came out before Rappers Delight.

The Last Poets -Self Titled (Full Album)


The Last Poets - This Is Madness (Full Album)
=PLC2WRbXIfFwQD6GbJtUi20zMr9XMp8wEL

The Last Poets -Chastisement (Full Album)

 

[5 Grand]

LAST POETS BIOGRAPHY

Last Poets were rappers of the civil rights era. Along with the changing domestic landscape came the New York City-hip group called The Last Poets, who used obstreperous verse to chide a nation whose inclination was to maintain the colonial yoke around the neck of the disenfranchised.

Shortly after the death of Martin Luther King, The Last Poets were born. David Nelson, Gylan Kain, and Abiodun Oyewole, were born on the anniversary of Malcolm X's birthday May 19, 1968 in Marcus Garvey Park. They grew from three poets and a drummer to seven young black and Hispanic artists: David Nelson, Gylan Kain, Abiodun Oyewole, Felipe Luciano, Umar Bin Hassan, Jalal Nurridin, and Suliamn El Hadi (Gil Scott Heron was never a member of the group). They took their name from a poem by South African poet Willie Kgositsile, who posited the necessity of putting aside poetry in the face of looming revolution.
http://www.math.buffalo.edu/~sww/LAST-POETS/last_poets0.html

So in 1970 four of the members of The Last Poets recorded a self titled album, The Last Poets

In 1971, the other three members of The Last Poets made a documentary called Right On!

 

[5 Grand]

In the meanwhile, while The Last Poets were making noise in New York City, The Watts Prophets made two albums in California around the same time.

The Black Voices - On The Streets Of Watts
=PLqmz-EmBiq0Mu67m5Si_ntIeVriz5fDpP

The Watts Prophets - Rappin Black In A White World
=PLqmz-EmBiq0OTiY_qkKUYs_SjhkKMHPv7

 

[5 Grand]

And not to leave out the early female rappers, Nicki Giovanni recorded three rap albums in the early 70s.
=720s

 

[5 Grand]

Jalal Nuridden of The Last Poets made a solo album with Kool & The Gang. It is a concept album that tells of the story of a hustler and his ace boon coon that gets out of jail.

 

[THE_R_]

JAZZ & REGGAE

Jazz? Care to explain?

Reggae? Yeah.

"When Did Reggae Become Rap?"

When did Jamaican dance hall reggae become rap? Are we not putting the carriage before the horse? Contrary to what many may say Rap can trace its origins directly from Jamaican Dub Reggae & Jamaican style toasting. It is a fact that isn’t talked about by many in the main stream media but many of the early pioneers (DJ Herc) and newer rappers (Busta Rhymes, Notorious B.I.G and Redman) in the American rap era are Jamaican immigrants or children of Jamaican immigrants in NY. One does not have to look very far to see the relationship between the two as we now see rap and dancehall reggae merging. This would not be possible if there were not the similarities as the child is now beginning to return to the parent. Jamaican dejaying came out of a form a rhyming and talking over music called “Toasting”. Rapping began as a variation on the toasting

Jamaican sound systems (Mobile Discotheques) have been toasting since the early 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. Jamaican toasting was developed at blues dances which were free dances mainly in Jamaican ghettos where sound systems battled each other playing American R& B, Jamaican Ska and Rock Steady. Popular dance venues included Foresters Hall, Twary Crescent (Duke, Sir Cox Sound, King Edwards, Mighty Bell), & Central Road. Surprisingly some of the earliest signs of toasting can be found in songs by folk historian and entertainer the Honorable Dr. Louise Bennett-Coverley fondly known to many as “Miss Lou”.

The sound systems had a Deejay whose primary responsibility was to play the records and then there was the MC who was responsible for setting the mood with the crowd by “toasting”. Record producers used to leave one side of a new 45 with just the instruments or “rhythm” which was called “the version of the song”. These versions are where many of MCs of the sound systems in Jamaica would do a rhyme or toast to entertain the audience. MC’s would battle each other (just like rappers did) to see who could do the best rhyme or toast. They would cover topics ranging from what people were wearing at the dance, to culture, politics and commentary. Like the early beginning of its predecessor rap; most of it was good natured and humorous. The rhyme started with phrases like ‘wuk it up man’.

Ewart ‘U-Roy’ Beckford, King Sporty, Dennis Alcapone, Scotty, Prince Buster, Sir Coxsone, Duke Reid are all early leaders in toasting in Jamaica. They would be followed later by deejays like Big Youth, Jah Stitch and I Roy. They were followed by Yellowman, Charlie Chaplin and General Echo.

Duke Reid was one of Jamaica’s most popular early DJ’s. He was known to wear outrageous costumes. His most popular costume was a dark cloak where he hid his cowboy holster and guns. You could also hear “toasting” on the radio during 1958- 1959 on the Treasure Isles time Radio Program with King Sporty.

Many of the artists involved in the birth of rap in New York were either Jamaican or have Jamaican parentage. The seeds were planted for rap music when Jamaican Clive ‘Kool Herc’ Campbell migrated to the Bronx NY 1967 at age 13. He put together a sound system patterned off what he saw growing up in Jamaica and started to draw crowds to his dances. Influenced by the Jamaican style of toasting he used this technique on American R&B, funk, disco, soul and funk. During the song’s 30-40 sec instrumental break he would “toast”. He realized he needed a way to extend the instrumental break so he started to experiment with 2 turntables. He was the first to use two turntables techniques to extend the break by playing the same record. This allowed more ‘toasting’ which like its Jamaican counterpart encouraged people to dance. He pioneered “breaks” in songs. He recruited dancers as a part of his MC dance team. These dancers would be featured mainly during the breaks and would later be called break-dancers. Campbell was just one of the many Jamaicans who influence rap directly.

Today we have Beenie man, Elephant man and Sean Paul who are now influencing Rap. Without a doubt Jamaican deejay style was the foundation for American rap music and needs to be recognized as such.

A few Sources: Evolution of Rap by Steven Hager, The Rough Guide to Reggae by Steve Barrow, Cut N Mix by Dick Hebdige, The Tennors (Rock Steady/Reggae group), Derrick Morgan (King of Ska).

"When Did Reggae Become Rap?"

TO BE FAIR...JAZZ IS THE PRECURSOR OF MOST MODERN GENRES OF MUSIC. IF IT WASN'T FOR JAZZ EVERYTHING WOULD SOUND LIKE MOVIE SCORES. AS FAR AS RAP GOES...THERE WOULD BE NO BREAKBEATS IF IT WASN'T FOR THE PIONEERS OF JAZZ MUSIC.