What makes us so different? (believers, non believers, etc)

[VIBE]

In other words according to the predestination doctrine billions of people were created to live a life on Earth jus to go to Hell for an eternity afterwards... But the chosen few were created to go to heaven for a eternity.

This does not sound like sound doctrine to me.

That's DoU's belief, not mine. I'm explaining how free will and predestination cannot go hand in hand. I don't care who believes in predestination tbh, it just doesn't make sense.

If it truly is predestination, who did Jesus die for? Why does it say, "for God so loved the WORLD, he gave his only son blah blah blah.." ??? Why not, for God so loved his elect, because that's what this is, we have elect and non-elect.

BLAH! I'm eating a taco, shhh....

 

[longmeat]

I know... I dont believe in predestination. But if DoU believes that then whats the point of creating ppl to live a life if they are going to hell anyway afterwards becuz they were predestined to?

It just proves the christian god is nothing more than a sadist. Or the entire shit is duck tales to begin with.

 

[VIBE]

I know... I dont believe in predestination. But if DoU believes that then whats the point of creating ppl to live a life if they are going to hell anyway afterwards becuz they were predestined to?

Exactly my point and any person going to hell isn't at fault as they were already destined to go there, so no matter how many times they hear the word, attend a church service, or attempt to change their lives to be with God, they were already destined for hell. Their choices will never affect the outcome of God's 'heaven/hell'.

It would also render any "relationship" with God meaningless.

 

[chilly]

Mind control aka pimping.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Predestination is a tough pill to swallow. This is called meat! This isn't for carnal people or babes in Christ who still need to be fed milk.

By denying predestination, you are not only denying the scriptures that clearly teach it, which is blasphemous in it's own right, but you are also denying the Omniscience of God.

How can God be omniscient if He didn't know who would be saved and who would be lost? It makes no sense. That's why God clearly spells out His Omniscience repeatedly in His word.

The problem is that people try to tackle the infinite all wise wisdom of God with human reason and intellect.

That's why when people do that they can never get on 1st base. There actually still stuck in the batter box (the natural mind) check swinging at every
pitch. It's an endless cycle of stupidity.

The natural man can never understand these things. It's hard enough for the spiritual
Man to even grasp these infinite concepts of the all powerful and all knowing God.

And whats so great about all of this is that Even after this discussion, God will still be seated on the throne, high and lifted up above all things, with all things under His feet. So He wins regardless and He still gets all the glory! It's just a privilege to be able to bring Him glory by exalting His name. Amen.

 

[VIBE]

Predestination is a tough pill to swallow. This is called meat! This isn't for carnal people or babes in Christ who still need to be fed milk.

By denying predestination, you are not only denying the scriptures that clearly teach it, which is blasphemous in it's own right, but you are also denying the Omniscience of God.

How can God be omniscient if He didn't know who would be saved and who would be lost? It makes no sense. That's why God clearly spells out His Omniscience repeatedly in His word.

The problem is that people try to tackle the infinite all wise wisdom of God with human reason and intellect.

That's why when people do that they can never get on 1st base. There actually still stuck in the batter box (the natural mind) check swinging at every
pitch. It's an endless cycle of stupidity.

The natural man can never understand these things. It's hard enough for the spiritual
Man to even grasp these infinite concepts of the all powerful and all knowing God.

And whats so great about all of this is that Even after this discussion, God will still be seated on the throne, high and lifted up above all things, with all things under His feet. So He wins regardless and He still gets all the glory! It's just a privilege to be able to bring Him glory by exalting His name. Amen.

So how does any relationship have ANY meaning? If God knows his chosen will just LOVE him, it's a forced love, he created them to do so. He doesn't know what it's like to be loved in the sense that he found love or his elect found love.

I never knew I'd meet my wife, I never knew I would love someone like I do, yet I did and it's a love that's unexplainable. I love my wife unconditionally, if I knew I would be at this point with her before I even met her, it would be meaningless. Everything I've experienced with her would have no significance.

So now not only is it predestination, it's basically robotic people without knowing they're "robots". If not, why not? What choice did you have in your relationship with God? None. You were predestined to go through life and have your trials and end up at the end of the maze finding God, you had NO other path to take. The illusion is that you may have trailed off into a world of drugs, alcohol, wild sex, etc but that's impossible if you were predestined to be where you're at. You're a programmed robot, you did exactly what you were created to do by God.

What about hell? For those in hell, if God predestined them to hell, why? How is it THEIR fault?

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

So how does any relationship have ANY meaning? If God knows his chosen will just LOVE him, it's a forced love, he created them to do so. He doesn't know what it's like to be loved in the sense that he found love or his elect found love.

I never knew I'd meet my wife, I never knew I would love someone like I do, yet I did and it's a love that's unexplainable. I love my wife unconditionally, if I knew I would be at this point with her before I even met her, it would be meaningless. Everything I've experienced with her would have no significance.

So now not only is it predestination, it's basically robotic people without knowing they're "robots". If not, why not? What choice did you have in your relationship with God? None. You were predestined to go through life and have your trials and end up at the end of the maze finding God, you had NO other path to take. The illusion is that you may have trailed off into a world of drugs, alcohol, wild sex, etc but that's impossible if you were predestined to be where you're at. You're a programmed robot, you did exactly what you were created to do by God.

What about hell? For those in hell, if God predestined them to hell, why? How is it THEIR fault?

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." John 15:16

That verse says it all!

I praise God for predestinating me. I would be LOST if He didn't chose me.

Hey, I didn't ask to be here Vibe. I never asked God to come to planet earth on July26, 1981. But hey I was born on that day and thus I will FOREVER exist! I can't be un-born. But I can be BORN-AGAIN!

That choice is on us. You can come up with all type of excuses, but the fact remains that you have the CHOICE to accept Jesus Christ and be forgiven of all your sins. Just like you had the choice to marry your wife, just like you have the choice to CHEAT on your wife, just like you have the choice to DIVORCE your wife, etc. The choice is up to us.

DO YOU BELIEVE GOD? That is the question!

Like I said at the end of this conversation the CHOICE is still yours. Will you repent or will you rebel? Regardless of your choice, God will still rule His kingdom with you or without you. He does whatever pleases Him and nobody can tell Him otherwise. Amen.

And for those in hell, it's their fault because they CHOSE to rebel and not repent of their sins. The wages of sin is death, and thus they are paying, IN FULL, their just wages for their sins in the PIT!

Those in the pit have no hope anymore unlike you. Why? Because they have already passed on to the other side and made their choices on the earth. You on the other hand still have hope. You still have a CHOICE to change your eternal destiny. That choice remains up to you. At the end of the day you will stand before God and give an account for your life. How you stand before Him is TOTALLY up to you. You can either be covered with the righteousness of Christ or you can stand before God naked with all your sins laid bare before Him. You get to make that decision. I pray you choose wisely! Amen.

 

[VIBE]

Tell me how you are "predestined" but still have a choice, that makes no sense.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Tell me how you are "predestined" but still have a choice, that makes no sense.

I had a choice to respond to this message. Just like you have a choice to respond back. Simple, ay?

 

[VIBE]

I had a choice to respond to this message. Just like you have a choice to respond back. Simple, ay?

We are talking about salvation wise (because that's what the bible is talking about as well, right?), not making a ham sandwich wise and if you want provolone or American cheese on it. Simple, ay?

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

We are talking about salvation wise (because that's what the bible is talking about as well, right?), not making a ham sandwich wise and if you want provolone or American cheese on it. Simple, ay?

You got to put the cookies on the bottom shelf at times so that the kiddies can reach them Vibe.

 

[Bodhi]

lol..............

 

[VIBE]

You got to put the cookies on the bottom shelf at times so that the kiddies can reach them Vibe.

TBH, I think I know what you're saying, but I don't at the same time. Enlighten me on this clever little saying of yours.

To be clear too, cookies go on the top shelf. My kids do not eat cookies, it's a rare treat.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

TBH, I think I know what you're saying, but I don't at the same time. Enlighten me on this clever little saying of yours.

To be clear too, cookies go on the top shelf. My kids do not eat cookies, it's a rare treat.

You have to know your audience vibe. Thus I have to say things that will make sense to person who is not at the same level of understanding, knowledge, or spiritual maturity as I am. The cookies have to be brought down to a level that you can reach them, in order for you to grow up into the spiritual man God created you to be. So that 1 day you will be able to grasp for the jumbo size cookies on the top shelf. A shelf that only those who know God intimately, deeply, and personally can reach.

Like I said, the doctrine of Predestination is meat. This is not spiritual milk. Many, many, many, many people who have lived before us and who live now struggle with this doctrine. But the reason why people struggle is because when they come to the table, sit down, and try to pick up their forks and knives in order to cut the meat, they come with their knowledge, preconceived notions, and deeply held biases. So instead of filling their spiritual mind with the nourishment of spiritual meat, they in turn fill their already full carnal mind with more non-sense because they believe they already know the truth, based upon the preconceived notions, ideas, and thoughts that they brought to the table to begin with.

You have to have the mind of God in order to attest to the things of God. It's that simple. Looking at spiritual things from your carnal mind will always leave you empty and devoid of knowledge and truth. Amen.

 

[VIBE]

Okay, I did understand your saying but you are so bad at using them as examples. Jumbo cookies, really?

This makes no sense about what I asked in the first place,

We are talking about salvation wise (because that's what the bible is talking about as well, right?), not making a ham sandwich wise and if you want provolone or American cheese on it. Simple, ay?

In the sense of SALVATION, in the sense of BEING CHOSEN BY GOD, you have NO choice. God has PREDETERMINED YOU to be a MAN OF GOD, to DEDICATE YOUR LIFE TO HIM. How is that even CLOSE to being a CHOICE?

More so, what about those who are sent to hell? What FAIR chance were they given to CHOOSE? If they are too PREDETERMINED to go to HELL, that was NOT a CHOICE they made no matter what has happened in their lives., it was a choice BY GOD.

So how does predestination qualify as a choice in the sense of SALVATION.

All capitalized so you don't miss any words

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Okay, I did understand your saying but you are so bad at using them as examples. Jumbo cookies, really?

This makes no sense about what I asked in the first place,

In the sense of SALVATION, in the sense of BEING CHOSEN BY GOD, you have NO choice. God has PREDETERMINED YOU to be a MAN OF GOD, to DEDICATE YOUR LIFE TO HIM. How is that even CLOSE to being a CHOICE?

More so, what about those who are sent to hell? What FAIR chance were they given to CHOOSE? If they are too PREDETERMINED to go to HELL, that was NOT a CHOICE they made no matter what has happened in their lives., it was a choice BY GOD.

So how does predestination qualify as a choice in the sense of SALVATION.

All capitalized so you don't miss any words

You see this is why you have to put the cookies on the bottom shelf!

You have to understand that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned, and are all worthy of eternal punishment. As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God.

Here is an illustration. (Putting the cookies where you can reach them)

If a man randomly handed out money to 20 people in a crowd of 40. Would the 20 people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.

Ephesians 2:8-9 declare, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Salvation is a free gift of God available only by His grace! Salvation is not deserved. It is not earned. It is not paid for. So your argument falls flat on its face because your acting as if God owes us salvation. It's all about the GRACE of God, freely bestowed upon sinful creatures who willingly choose to accept it. If you don't accept it, God didn't call you to accept it. Oh well. Life still goes on with or without you Vibe. So if you or I wind up in the lake of fire, we would deserve it because we have sinned from the day of our birth against a holy and righteous God. Them cookies are tough to eat sometimes, but if you want to be fed with spiritual meat you got to digest it!

 

[VIBE]

You clearly just tip toe around my question, you're not directly answering me but giving me shit that has nothing to do with what I actually asked. Nothing you said has to deal with predestination now, you're flip flopping.

So with that note I just wanted to tell you I didn't find a chicken evolving into a shark but something close, hope you're happy with this, I mean it's as close as I've found. Perhaps you aren't as crazy as we thought you were...

 

[Hyde Parke]

You have to know your audience vibe. Thus I have to say things that will make sense to person who is not at the same level of understanding, knowledge, or spiritual maturity as I am. The cookies have to be brought down to a level that you can reach them, in order for you to grow up into the spiritual man God created you to be. So that 1 day you will be able to grasp for the jumbo size cookies on the top shelf. A shelf that only those who know God intimately, deeply, and personally can reach.

Like I said, the doctrine of Predestination is meat. This is not spiritual milk. Many, many, many, many people who have lived before us and who live now struggle with this doctrine. But the reason why people struggle is because when they come to the table, sit down, and try to pick up their forks and knives in order to cut the meat, they come with their knowledge, preconceived notions, and deeply held biases. So instead of filling their spiritual mind with the nourishment of spiritual meat, they in turn fill their already full carnal mind with more non-sense because they believe they already know the truth, based upon the preconceived notions, ideas, and thoughts that they brought to the table to begin with.

You have to have the mind of God in order to attest to the things of God. It's that simple. Looking at spiritual things from your carnal mind will always leave you empty and devoid of knowledge and truth. Amen.

well this is one post full of humbleness

 

[blackrain]

Who can resist the will of God? Who can understand His wisdom? God does whatever pleases Him and nobody can tell Him that He is wrong. God has every right to punish ALL of us in hell. Believers don't deserve heaven. Heaven is a gift! We deserve death. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Predestination is a tough pill to swallow. But God clearly teaches it. This is His universe. Not ours. He made it and He makes the rules.

Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

God knows everything. He knows the end from the beginning. Who is like our God? Nobody! Thats why you either believe what He says or you reject it. We still have free will.

So God intentionally creates fuck ups and just places them in the world? great God you have there

 

[Bodhi]

You have to know your audience vibe. Thus I have to say things that will make sense to person who is not at the same level of understanding, knowledge, or spiritual maturity as I am. The cookies have to be brought down to a level that you can reach them, in order for you to grow up into the spiritual man God created you to be. So that 1 day you will be able to grasp for the jumbo size cookies on the top shelf. A shelf that only those who know God intimately, deeply, and personally can reach.

Like I said, the doctrine of Predestination is meat. This is not spiritual milk. Many, many, many, many people who have lived before us and who live now struggle with this doctrine. But the reason why people struggle is because when they come to the table, sit down, and try to pick up their forks and knives in order to cut the meat, they come with their knowledge, preconceived notions, and deeply held biases. So instead of filling their spiritual mind with the nourishment of spiritual meat, they in turn fill their already full carnal mind with more non-sense because they believe they already know the truth, based upon the preconceived notions, ideas, and thoughts that they brought to the table to begin with.

You have to have the mind of God in order to attest to the things of God. It's that simple. Looking at spiritual things from your carnal mind will always leave you empty and devoid of knowledge and truth. Amen.

meat can put you at a higher risk of osteoporosis, cancer, heart disease, and stroke. I stick to vegetables personally