To those who believe in a kind and merciful god....why is the world so hostile to life?

[VIBE]

Nature is always trying to kill us.

 

[kingblaze84]

Like DoU said...sin.

God wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think God needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and kill.

This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible god never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?

And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.

Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if God allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to kill the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.

God wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in God's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor.

How are people as a whole supposed to get right spiritually? Unless a god comes down and proves himself or herself to people worldwide, no one will have the same view. People will have their differences and resources and other animals will still compete for them.

If the environment wasn't so harsh to animals and humans worldwide, you would have a point. Many spiritual or religious places suffer from tsunamis, hurricanes, floods and everything else. There are cases of churches being hit with tornadoes during Christmas.

Because of sin, we can't...and won't...get right spiritually. Apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus, God is holding us spiritually accountable. It's not enough to keep the rules. We must 't thaso in spirit.

How are people supposed to stop sinning, if we're made with desires? And why should that be a reason to allow flesh eating bacteria to exist, isn't that harsh?

There is nothing inherently wrong with desires. It is when our desires are not "in spirit". Because of sin, our desire's fall short. We can't be happy, sad, or angry without it being destructive towards the spirit of things.

If flesh-eating bacteria is the reason for our spiritual deterioration, it would be harsh.

So what would the solution to all this sinning be? To follow the rules of the Bible 100%? To the T?

In a previous post I gave a solution...apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus for God's Favor, there is nothing we can do. If we follow the rules...it would need to be done in honor of His Favor.

So basically, flesh eating bacteria and hurricanes will be around until the end of time. Sounds harsh if all this comes from "one" god. If one god made flesh eating bacteria that eats a baby's skin as it's alive, many times without anesthesia, doesn't that make the Bible god seem kind of evil?

I would rather someone say there are other gods or beings that are bringing these harsh things to Earth. But you say the Bible god has made these things. Pretty disturbing.

But what does flesh eating bacteria have to do with the spirit deteriorating? I may personally not like the idea of waking up and finding myself being eaten alive by these things, but my hope is that God keeps my spirit whole through it all.

An plague-free environment isn't going to cure sin that plagues the heart.

Flesh eating bacteria and other horrors are big reasons why so many are not religious or don't take religion seriously.

Why would a non-religious person gain faith if he or she has a child or sibling with flesh eating bacteria or worse? It seems like your Bible god has zero interest in trying to build relationships with other humans. Relationships are a two way street, and the Bible god is missing in action like an absentee father.

And before you say people need to try harder to "build a relationship with Jesus", be aware I've called out to Jesus on this forum at least 3 times, never hearing an answer. I was Christian for 16 years and not nearly as satisfied with my life as I am now. Not sure what kind of being you believe in, but it seems to be the hide in the cave type.

 

[kingblaze84]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

 

[The_Jackal]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

 

[kingblaze84]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

 

[zzombie]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL NIGGA you can't be serious

 

[alissowack]

Like DoU said...sin.

God wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think God needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and kill.

This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible god never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?

And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.

Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if God allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to kill the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.

God wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in God's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor.

How are people as a whole supposed to get right spiritually? Unless a god comes down and proves himself or herself to people worldwide, no one will have the same view. People will have their differences and resources and other animals will still compete for them.

If the environment wasn't so harsh to animals and humans worldwide, you would have a point. Many spiritual or religious places suffer from tsunamis, hurricanes, floods and everything else. There are cases of churches being hit with tornadoes during Christmas.

Because of sin, we can't...and won't...get right spiritually. Apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus, God is holding us spiritually accountable. It's not enough to keep the rules. We must 't thaso in spirit.

How are people supposed to stop sinning, if we're made with desires? And why should that be a reason to allow flesh eating bacteria to exist, isn't that harsh?

There is nothing inherently wrong with desires. It is when our desires are not "in spirit". Because of sin, our desire's fall short. We can't be happy, sad, or angry without it being destructive towards the spirit of things.

If flesh-eating bacteria is the reason for our spiritual deterioration, it would be harsh.

So what would the solution to all this sinning be? To follow the rules of the Bible 100%? To the T?

In a previous post I gave a solution...apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus for God's Favor, there is nothing we can do. If we follow the rules...it would need to be done in honor of His Favor.

So basically, flesh eating bacteria and hurricanes will be around until the end of time. Sounds harsh if all this comes from "one" god. If one god made flesh eating bacteria that eats a baby's skin as it's alive, many times without anesthesia, doesn't that make the Bible god seem kind of evil?

I would rather someone say there are other gods or beings that are bringing these harsh things to Earth. But you say the Bible god has made these things. Pretty disturbing.

But what does flesh eating bacteria have to do with the spirit deteriorating? I may personally not like the idea of waking up and finding myself being eaten alive by these things, but my hope is that God keeps my spirit whole through it all.

An plague-free environment isn't going to cure sin that plagues the heart.

Flesh eating bacteria and other horrors are big reasons why so many are not religious or don't take religion seriously.

Why would a non-religious person gain faith if he or she has a child or sibling with flesh eating bacteria or worse? It seems like your Bible god has zero interest in trying to build relationships with other humans. Relationships are a two way street, and the Bible god is missing in action like an absentee father.

And before you say people need to try harder to "build a relationship with Jesus", be aware I've called out to Jesus on this forum at least 3 times, never hearing an answer. I was Christian for 16 years and not nearly as satisfied with my life as I am now. Not sure what kind of being you believe in, but it seems to be the hide in the cave type.

No...people building God up to be this genie in a bottle is the reason. Someone has an ailment and these faith healers come along trying to "sell" you on it.

...and no I wasn't going to say try harder. If you got to work to get somebody to love you, then it is a relationship gone bad. Jesus wants a relationship...not a do-boy.

 

[The_Jackal]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

LOL i just said you know bit you don un der stand which you don are you wouldnt alays post wring verses (like gEttinger the prophices confuses) or svendors nRedington to askip this question. Again as o said you are posting the wrong scriptures because you haven't read them you just search for whatever backs up your opinion on Google. And come on you not willing to be open you don't gotta lie to us.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

If humans never face challenges how would they grow? Trying to avoid nature's callous hostility has advanced us.

 

[kingblaze84]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL NIGGA you can't be serious

What's so funny about that? I know exactly what the Bible says and Jews denying Jesus being the savior says a lot because Jews wrote the Old Testament. They know exactly how the old prophecies are supposed to be fulfilled and the reality is the major ones haven't been yet. And even you admitted the prophecies won't be totally fulfilled soon. It is what it is.

 

[The_Jackal]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL NIGGA you can't be serious

What's so funny about that? I know exactly what the Bible says and Jews denying Jesus being the savior says a lot because Jews wrote the Old Testament. They know exactly how the old prophecies are supposed to be fulfilled and the reality is the major ones haven't been yet. And even you admitted the prophecies won't be totally fulfilled soon. It is what it is.

Again difference between knowing and understanding. You lack that understand as long as you continue to be arrogant about the bible you always will lack it. A person doesn't even need to be christian to read and comprehend it. You lack that

 

[kingblaze84]

Like DoU said...sin.

God wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think God needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and kill.

This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible god never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?

And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.

Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if God allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to kill the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.

God wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in God's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor.

How are people as a whole supposed to get right spiritually? Unless a god comes down and proves himself or herself to people worldwide, no one will have the same view. People will have their differences and resources and other animals will still compete for them.

If the environment wasn't so harsh to animals and humans worldwide, you would have a point. Many spiritual or religious places suffer from tsunamis, hurricanes, floods and everything else. There are cases of churches being hit with tornadoes during Christmas.

Because of sin, we can't...and won't...get right spiritually. Apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus, God is holding us spiritually accountable. It's not enough to keep the rules. We must 't thaso in spirit.

How are people supposed to stop sinning, if we're made with desires? And why should that be a reason to allow flesh eating bacteria to exist, isn't that harsh?

There is nothing inherently wrong with desires. It is when our desires are not "in spirit". Because of sin, our desire's fall short. We can't be happy, sad, or angry without it being destructive towards the spirit of things.

If flesh-eating bacteria is the reason for our spiritual deterioration, it would be harsh.

So what would the solution to all this sinning be? To follow the rules of the Bible 100%? To the T?

In a previous post I gave a solution...apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus for God's Favor, there is nothing we can do. If we follow the rules...it would need to be done in honor of His Favor.

So basically, flesh eating bacteria and hurricanes will be around until the end of time. Sounds harsh if all this comes from "one" god. If one god made flesh eating bacteria that eats a baby's skin as it's alive, many times without anesthesia, doesn't that make the Bible god seem kind of evil?

I would rather someone say there are other gods or beings that are bringing these harsh things to Earth. But you say the Bible god has made these things. Pretty disturbing.

But what does flesh eating bacteria have to do with the spirit deteriorating? I may personally not like the idea of waking up and finding myself being eaten alive by these things, but my hope is that God keeps my spirit whole through it all.

An plague-free environment isn't going to cure sin that plagues the heart.

Flesh eating bacteria and other horrors are big reasons why so many are not religious or don't take religion seriously.

Why would a non-religious person gain faith if he or she has a child or sibling with flesh eating bacteria or worse? It seems like your Bible god has zero interest in trying to build relationships with other humans. Relationships are a two way street, and the Bible god is missing in action like an absentee father.

And before you say people need to try harder to "build a relationship with Jesus", be aware I've called out to Jesus on this forum at least 3 times, never hearing an answer. I was Christian for 16 years and not nearly as satisfied with my life as I am now. Not sure what kind of being you believe in, but it seems to be the hide in the cave type.

No...people building God up to be this genie in a bottle is the reason. Someone has an ailment and these faith healers come along trying to "sell" you on it.

...and no I wasn't going to say try harder. If you got to work to get somebody to love you, then it is a relationship gone bad. Jesus wants a relationship...not a do-boy.

If Jesus really wants a relationship with people as much as you say he does, why doesn't he bless us with his presence IN PERSON after his 2,000 plus year absence? If I was a father and didn't see my son for his whole life, and didn't pay child support, I'd be considered a horrible father. So I'm very skeptical your boy Jesus even cares to build a "personal" relationship with anyone.

Probably why Mohammed and several others have made up their own religions these past years.

 

[kingblaze84]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL NIGGA you can't be serious

What's so funny about that? I know exactly what the Bible says and Jews denying Jesus being the savior says a lot because Jews wrote the Old Testament. They know exactly how the old prophecies are supposed to be fulfilled and the reality is the major ones haven't been yet. And even you admitted the prophecies won't be totally fulfilled soon. It is what it is.

Again difference between knowing and understanding. You lack that understand as long as you continue to be arrogant about the bible you always will lack it. A person doesn't even need to be christian to read and comprehend it. You lack that

Are Orthodox Jews unable to comprehend the Old Testament as well? Do they not understand the old prophecies, or are they too arrogant to understand?

 

[kingblaze84]

If humans never face challenges how would they grow? Trying to avoid nature's callous hostility has advanced us.

I more or less agree with you. But nature being callous and hostile to life on Earth defies the idea of one, all loving and caring god.

But it is very possible there are a bunch of "good" and "bad" gods out there. Some even say Earth itself is a god, but who knows.

 

[The_Jackal]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL NIGGA you can't be serious

What's so funny about that? I know exactly what the Bible says and Jews denying Jesus being the savior says a lot because Jews wrote the Old Testament. They know exactly how the old prophecies are supposed to be fulfilled and the reality is the major ones haven't been yet. And even you admitted the prophecies won't be totally fulfilled soon. It is what it is.

Again difference between knowing and understanding. You lack that understand as long as you continue to be arrogant about the bible you always will lack it. A person doesn't even need to be christian to read and comprehend it. You lack that

Are Orthodox Jews unable to comprehend the Old Testament as well? Do they not understand the old prophecies, or are they too arrogant to understand?

Ok I'll take the bait. Name exactly which prophices are wrong. Don't so that bullshit like the other post and misunderstand them. And to answer your question yes they are wrong and extremely arrogant/corrupt. If you actually read the bible you would know that's one of Jesus main messages being rejected by his own people.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

If humans never face challenges how would they grow? Trying to avoid nature's callous hostility has advanced us.

I more or less agree with you. But nature being callous and hostile to life on Earth defies the idea of one, all loving and caring god.

But it is very possible there are a bunch of "good" and "bad" gods out there. Some even say Earth itself is a god, but who knows.

Lol I know you do, but I don't think it defies the idea of all loving god, the love is in the life giving.

 

[kingblaze84]

If humans never face challenges how would they grow? Trying to avoid nature's callous hostility has advanced us.

I more or less agree with you. But nature being callous and hostile to life on Earth defies the idea of one, all loving and caring god.

But it is very possible there are a bunch of "good" and "bad" gods out there. Some even say Earth itself is a god, but who knows.

Lol I know you do, but I don't think it defies the idea of all loving god, the love is in the life giving.

I believe there could be a friendly and nice god out there. But ONE god that also happens to be loving and caring? Impossible from my observations. There is too much misery out there from natural disasters and natural parasites for there to be any evidence of there being ONE god that is also loving.

Do you think there could be multiple gods, some good and some bad?

 

[kingblaze84]

@The_Jackal

Actually, you need to re-read the Bible, the real savior according to the Old Testament prophecies would make Israel have true peace with its neighbors and world peace would be the result, along with the world uniting under one god. Ex-Christians almost always know the Bible better then Christians do.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page26.htm

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people. (Isaiah 2:4) Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9).



In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.”

those scriptures are referring to the time when jesus returns and rules not the time when he first comes to earth redeem the souls of men but when he comes back to redeem the earth

Oh give me a break man. It's been 2,000 damn years already.

Its crazy that you can read but not understand or just chose to not understand. That's what happens when you pick and choose scriptures without knowing what they actually refer to

I'm a naturally skeptical person, I was Christian for 16 years, baptized and everything. And I say with all honesty I tried very hard to stay Christian, but couldn't take the lies, bullshit, and failure of prophecies being filled no longer.

I know the scriptures very well, and say with confidence Jesus lied his ass off. The Jews were 100% correct about him. 2,000 years later, they are still right about him lol, and Jesus hasn't done shit to prove them or me wrong. Nada.

Don't like calling people liars online but that's a bold face lie. There are other areas you are knowledgeable in but scriptures and the bible in general ain't one of them at all. You are not skeptical you show outright hatred and anger to Christianity and are never unbiased when speaking on it. Just you posting the wrong prophecies shows your clear lack of understanding.

I'll just leave you with this.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

I've posted directly from the Bible LOL, so I know exactly what it says.

And believe it or not, I already am entertaining these thoughts without accepting them, I'm still willing to hear other viewpoints. I just need evidence at the same time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL NIGGA you can't be serious

What's so funny about that? I know exactly what the Bible says and Jews denying Jesus being the savior says a lot because Jews wrote the Old Testament. They know exactly how the old prophecies are supposed to be fulfilled and the reality is the major ones haven't been yet. And even you admitted the prophecies won't be totally fulfilled soon. It is what it is.

Again difference between knowing and understanding. You lack that understand as long as you continue to be arrogant about the bible you always will lack it. A person doesn't even need to be christian to read and comprehend it. You lack that

Are Orthodox Jews unable to comprehend the Old Testament as well? Do they not understand the old prophecies, or are they too arrogant to understand?

Ok I'll take the bait. Name exactly which prophices are wrong. Don't so that bullshit like the other post and misunderstand them. And to answer your question yes they are wrong and extremely arrogant/corrupt. If you actually read the bible you would know that's one of Jesus main messages being rejected by his own people.

The prophecies that Jesus has failed to fulfill you mean? There's a whole bunch of them, the Jews have pointed them all out. World peace, Israel getting along with its neighbors in harmony, the world united in worshipping the SAME god, and the world having the same religion.

These are all from the Old Testament, I didn't make anything up. The REAL SAVIOR according to your holy book says the real savior would ACCOMPLISH these things in one shot, not no damn 2,000 or so years later after getting his ass kicked by a bunch of humans.

The Jews WROTE THE OLD TESTAMENT, so they should know what fulfills these prophecies and what does not. And it is very, very clear Jesus has completely failed in fulfilling the major parts of the prophecies, including the ones I mentioned above.

 

[alissowack]

Like DoU said...sin.

God wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think God needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and kill.

This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible god never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?

And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.

Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if God allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to kill the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.

God wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in God's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor.

How are people as a whole supposed to get right spiritually? Unless a god comes down and proves himself or herself to people worldwide, no one will have the same view. People will have their differences and resources and other animals will still compete for them.

If the environment wasn't so harsh to animals and humans worldwide, you would have a point. Many spiritual or religious places suffer from tsunamis, hurricanes, floods and everything else. There are cases of churches being hit with tornadoes during Christmas.

Because of sin, we can't...and won't...get right spiritually. Apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus, God is holding us spiritually accountable. It's not enough to keep the rules. We must 't thaso in spirit.

How are people supposed to stop sinning, if we're made with desires? And why should that be a reason to allow flesh eating bacteria to exist, isn't that harsh?

There is nothing inherently wrong with desires. It is when our desires are not "in spirit". Because of sin, our desire's fall short. We can't be happy, sad, or angry without it being destructive towards the spirit of things.

If flesh-eating bacteria is the reason for our spiritual deterioration, it would be harsh.

So what would the solution to all this sinning be? To follow the rules of the Bible 100%? To the T?

In a previous post I gave a solution...apart from trusting in the person and work of Jesus for God's Favor, there is nothing we can do. If we follow the rules...it would need to be done in honor of His Favor.

So basically, flesh eating bacteria and hurricanes will be around until the end of time. Sounds harsh if all this comes from "one" god. If one god made flesh eating bacteria that eats a baby's skin as it's alive, many times without anesthesia, doesn't that make the Bible god seem kind of evil?

I would rather someone say there are other gods or beings that are bringing these harsh things to Earth. But you say the Bible god has made these things. Pretty disturbing.

But what does flesh eating bacteria have to do with the spirit deteriorating? I may personally not like the idea of waking up and finding myself being eaten alive by these things, but my hope is that God keeps my spirit whole through it all.

An plague-free environment isn't going to cure sin that plagues the heart.

Flesh eating bacteria and other horrors are big reasons why so many are not religious or don't take religion seriously.

Why would a non-religious person gain faith if he or she has a child or sibling with flesh eating bacteria or worse? It seems like your Bible god has zero interest in trying to build relationships with other humans. Relationships are a two way street, and the Bible god is missing in action like an absentee father.

And before you say people need to try harder to "build a relationship with Jesus", be aware I've called out to Jesus on this forum at least 3 times, never hearing an answer. I was Christian for 16 years and not nearly as satisfied with my life as I am now. Not sure what kind of being you believe in, but it seems to be the hide in the cave type.

No...people building God up to be this genie in a bottle is the reason. Someone has an ailment and these faith healers come along trying to "sell" you on it.

...and no I wasn't going to say try harder. If you got to work to get somebody to love you, then it is a relationship gone bad. Jesus wants a relationship...not a do-boy.

If Jesus really wants a relationship with people as much as you say he does, why doesn't he bless us with his presence IN PERSON after his 2,000 plus year absence? If I was a father and didn't see my son for his whole life, and didn't pay child support, I'd be considered a horrible father. So I'm very skeptical your boy Jesus even cares to build a "personal" relationship with anyone.

Probably why Mohammed and several others have made up their own religions these past years.

According to the Bible, the next time he comes it is to judge the world. If you don't know about who Jesus is now in the Bible, you never will. There is this impression that if he shows up and conjure up a miracle or two you will just fall to the ground and worship. You're not. You are going to be exactly as you are. You're going to question his authority over mankind or why it took him so long to show up...and most importantly, what must you do to get saved. We're trying to tell you who Jesus is, but you have already made your choice.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

If humans never face challenges how would they grow? Trying to avoid nature's callous hostility has advanced us.

I more or less agree with you. But nature being callous and hostile to life on Earth defies the idea of one, all loving and caring god.

But it is very possible there are a bunch of "good" and "bad" gods out there. Some even say Earth itself is a god, but who knows.

Lol I know you do, but I don't think it defies the idea of all loving god, the love is in the life giving.

I believe there could be a friendly and nice god out there. But ONE god that also happens to be loving and caring? Impossible from my observations. There is too much misery out there from natural disasters and natural parasites for there to be any evidence of there being ONE god that is also loving.

Do you think there could be multiple gods, some good and some bad?

In my view god is one and out of god comes everything, 'good and bad' energy. Life is given to the parasite with as much love as what was given to you. Best of luck of life to you both! Yes we are special in that we can even contemplate this shit, but the amount of breathe given is the same.

If god rid the planet of all ill befalling things, this world would probably be a huge heap of shit if we held the same frame of mind or thought systems we have now. Humans need these things to humble them. We are more than our bodies, and if god is living and experiencing life through all it's many creations, there is much understanding and wisdom to be gained. People who have had to suffer have a far deeper sense of life that a lot of other people lack.