Thought about the big bang!

[KTULU IS BACK]

but our nothing and Gods nothing are two different things

once again, you're making completely baseless claims about attributes of God

you're setting up this word, God, such that it can be plugged into any gap in your knowledge and fit because you're just MAKING UP its properties

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

I am considering the size of the universe, but what does that have to do with anything?

what does the size of the universe have to do with probabilities of life arising on planets?

for reals?

 

[TX_Made713]

once again, you're making completely baseless claims about attributes of God

you're setting up this word, God, such that it can be plugged into any gap in your knowledge and fit because you're just MAKING UP its properties

listen to what you just said...how can many know of any attribute of God? All i spoke was the theory that may hint at a god. If I knew a way to prove it the big bang would no longer be a theory

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Life wouldnt be possible to exist in the first place. The earth would be a giant icy rock. The physics of the situation assuming the earth is designed the same way says its impossible to have otherwise. If there was any type of life then you are saying it was meant to be and there is a designer behind it.

Yes it would, when the Earth first formed it was thousands of degrees. Life didnt form on Earth for a while in human form. Micro organisms can live in ice, certain ones all they need to live is water. You saying oh Earth was formed specifically for life isn't true. Earth was one of the harshest planets at first. It got lucky and had fell into an area where it could thrive. Right now they are finding traces of rivers and the like on mars. They find a water source drilling on it, they will find life on it.

You said if the Earth went back it'd be a giant ice rock... Yea and? Like I said life would have just formed on the next habitable planet, likely mars or Venus and adapted to the conditions.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

listen to what you just said...how can many know of any attribute of God?

if you cant know anything about god, why do you keep proposing that god actually exists?

like i said, you're using god as a stopgap, just like classic theology has always done

every time scientific work expands our view of the real world, god gets more and more abstract until its virtually meaningless for you to bring it up

so why are you still assuming this thing exists at all? I know why. emotional reactions to the word were ingrained in you for years. fear, hope, etc.

 

[TX_Made713]

what does the size of the universe have to do with probabilities of life arising on planets?

for reals?

So your sayin because the universe is massive on a scale thats difficult to comprehend, this must have something to do with life on planets.....your sayin its not the actual position and materials available on the planets combined with the proper elements on them that keep life alive but the size of the universe. Your basing your thoughts off the earth, its life, and the sun....but you cant assume all life need a heat source to exist.

so again, what does the size of the universe have to do with anything?

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

So your sayin because the universe is massive on a scale thats difficult to comprehend, this must have something to do with life on planets.....your sayin its not the actual position and materials available on the planets combined with the proper elements on them that keep life alive but the size of the universe. Your basing your thoughts off the earth, its life, and the sun....but you cant assume all life need a heat source to exist.

so again, what does the size of the universe have to do with anything?

no dummy

consider the size of the universe

consider its contents

then consider probabilities of life being able to exist, given the sheer amount of stuff, the concentrations of it, and the completely natural processes that cause it

jesus christ, your skull must be double dense for you to not get the point here

 

[ThaChozenWun]

KTULU is saying given the size of the universe, its very likely there are other systems out there with the components to create and sustain life.

 

[TX_Made713]

if you cant know anything about god, why do you keep proposing that god actually exists?

like i said, you're using god as a stopgap, just like classic theology has always done

every time scientific work expands our view of the real world, god gets more and more abstract until its virtually meaningless for you to bring it up

so why are you still assuming this thing exists at all? I know why. emotional reactions to the word were ingrained in you for years. fear, hope, etc.

Same reason you believe he doesnt. Emotions have nothing to do with nothing. You still havent given a rational explanation on why he cant exist.

We can exist outside this universe which means something existed prior to us. There are alternate dimensions which im sure you already know about. so why is it imopssible to believe a grand designer doesnt exist outside of this...if we made a universe we would be the grand designers would we not?

now this and religion are two different things

Yes it would, when the Earth first formed it was thousands of degrees. Life didnt form on Earth for a while in human form. Micro organisms can live in ice, certain ones all they need to live is water. You saying oh Earth was formed specifically for life isn't true. Life was one of the harshest planets at first. It got lucky and had fell into an area where it could thrive. Right now they are finding traces of rivers and the like on mars. They find a water source drilling on it, they will find life on it.

You said if the Earth went back it'd be a giant rock... Yea and? Like I said life would have just formed on the next habitable planet, likely mars or Venus and adapted to the conditions.

keep in mind i said IF the earth was designed the same way it is now only sharing the same distance as Uranus or whatever

and If it were possible for life to form on mars or venus it would have done it already.

the earth and pluto would be similar in condition

So that knocks that out of the ball park

 

[TX_Made713]

no dummy

consider the size of the universe

consider its contents

then consider probabilities of life being able to exist, given the sheer amount of stuff, the concentrations of it, and the completely natural processes that cause it

jesus christ, your skull must be double dense for you to not get the point here

laff @ the irony of your last sentence considering you really look like jesus

You just reworded what I said in the post you quoted...

anyways im not saying life on earth is exclusive...and if we could see how life on other planets are existing then im sure this would further prove my point.

its all theoretical. peep my last post to see how this ties in with a designer

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Same reason you believe he doesnt. Emotions have nothing to do with nothing. You still havent given a rational explanation on why he cant exist.

We can exist outside this universe which means something existed prior to us. There are alternate dimensions which im sure you already know about. so why is it imopssible to believe a grand designer doesnt exist outside of this...if we made a universe we would be the grand designers would we not?

now this and religion are two different things

keep in mind i said IF the earth was designed the same way it is now only sharing the same distance as Uranus or whatever

and If it were possible for life to form on mars or venus it would have done it already.

the earth and pluto would be similar in condition

So that knocks that out of the ball park

Do you keep up with news? They have found evidence of water on mars and more than likely there was life on it that died off. Once we are able to send shit up there again and start drilling for streams under the crust we will find the evidence life existed on it.

And where does my post say Pluto and Earth have similar conditions?
Relativity to the sun created most of our conditions.

 

[TX_Made713]

Do you keep up with news? They have found evidence of water on mars and more than likely there was life on it that died off. Once we are able to send shit up there again and start drilling for streams under the crust we will find the evidence life existed on it.

And where does my post say Pluto and Earth have similar conditions?
Relativity to the sun created most of our conditions.

thats old news but yes I've heard it.

You are aware there is water all over the universe right? In my first mega post I stated HYDROGEN and HELIUM make up this universe....so of course its going to exist all over.

the rest are just theoretical beliefs that scientist will attempt to prove based off a strong desire to find life.

It doesnt. I added that to prove a point. Life would not exist had the earth been anywhere else besides the area its in. thats just science. they have to prove otherwise about life in this solar system but looking at it from that angle, that hints at a designer

 

[ThaChozenWun]

thats old news but yes I've heard it.

You are aware there is water all over the universe right? In my first mega post I stated HYDROGEN and HELIUM make up this universe....so of course its going to exist all over.

the rest are just theoretical beliefs that scientist will attempt to prove based off a strong desire to find life.

It doesnt. I added that to prove a point. Life would not exist had the earth been anywhere else besides the area its in. thats just science. they have to prove otherwise about life in this solar system but looking at it from that angle, that hints at a designer

There is a difference between Hydrogen particles and Helium Particles compared to rivers and streams

 

[TX_Made713]

There is a difference between Hydrogen particles and Helium Particles compared to rivers and streams

Water on another planet will not be the same as water on earth. There is a sea of hydrogen below the hazardous surface on the gas planet jupiter which turns solid as you get closer to the core

but actual H20 exists when the conditions are right on other planets...like pluto (although it will be ice)

 

[Alkindus]

The big bang theory preaches that EVERYTHING including the universe and billions of galaxies came from one thing so small that we cannot even see it with our nakes eyes. There was NOTHING except that tiny thing. It blew up and epanded endlessy, it still expands today.

thats the big bang theory in a nut shell.

This theory is as plausibel as it is unplausibel. Just like most things from beyond this planet. Every phew years we learn some fresh new info regarding the universe which destroys most previous theories.

I don't know shit basically, thats what I'm saying.

 

[Hyde Parke]

I don't know shit basically, thats what I'm saying.

no one in this thread seems to know either. until scientist can visit every planet, every galaxy, examine the entire universe, ( and even then there is no gurantee), no one will kno.I seems to be a big waste of time. other than the technological advances that beneift from studies.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Sure, why not?

like whar was talmbout, we're potentially dealing with a multiverse where the laws of physics from our universe don't apply to reality as a whole

This post shows your athiestic bias. You think it's perfectly fine for something to appear spontaneously even though that's not supported by what we know in nature. Yet, the idea that there may have been an intelligence behind it all is ridiculous. If you can acknowledge that there are things beyond our understanding that would allow for something to seemingly pop up out of nowhere, how can you find it so preposterous that the thing beyond our understanding may be sentient?

I can understand your point that it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a grand designer. However, saying it just happened and leaving it at that isn't any more sophisticated a set of thinking than saying that there was some being that put purpose to it. They are both postulates that are possible until proven wrong.

To answer that question, no I don't think it's possible for something to just happen. In nature there is alway an impetus for any action. That impetus might not always be immediately recognizable to us. As far as the Big Bang goes, there are theories as to why that singularity expanded the way it did, however, there is no one answer for why everything came to be. Every creation theory in science has a point that science isn't prepared to address. At that point, it's all speculation, and the belief that there is an intelligence of some type behind it is just as plausible as anything else.

 

[TX_Made713]

no one in this thread seems to know either. until scientist can visit every planet, every galaxy, examine the entire universe, ( and even then there is no gurantee), no one will kno.I seems to be a big waste of time. other than the technological advances that beneift from studies.

agree theres no way to know

with that said, whats the difference between science and religion

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

That's what I would like to understand too: how undifferentiated energy became differentiated energy.

 

[whar67]

TX points seem very focus on the priviledge place the earth holds in the cosmos. It is a rocky planet in the right temperature band of the solar system to support life. It produces a magnetic field to protect the surface from harmful radiation from the sun protect and allowing life to exist on it. Based on this amazing set of characteristics this planet posesses a designer or intelligent actor is inferred.

This is addressed by the Anthropic Principle. Copernicus developed a set of ideas that grew into a principle, the Copernicus Principle, that states humans do not occupy a priviledge position in the earth. This was primarily geographic in nature as it was argued prior to Copernicus that the earth was the center of the solar system and the universe, such as it was defined then. The Anthopic Principle carries this one step further noting that no priviledge can be extended to an observation save that is needed for the observation to occur. In the case of the Earth observation about it are made by human observer. All things needed for a human observer to exist must be present for the observation to be made and are therefore not special or an amazing coincidence.

In other words, since humans need a rocky planet with liquid water on it to exist it is not surprising we exist on a rocky planet with liquid water. If we take the position of the entire known universe made up of billions of galaxies filled with billions upon billions of stars being orbited by an impossibly large number of planets then we can easily surmise that a small percentage of them by random assortment will fall into the condition the Earth shares. Whether this number is 50, 50 million, or 50 billion there is no chance for us to exist on one not in this set. It does not matter how amazing this set of planets are there existed no chance of us not being in the set.

This is the heart and soul of Douglass Adams quote regarding the puddle I posted earlier. Humans as an evolved species 'fit' the world we are in. It is not remarkable that it 'fits' us well. It could be no other way.

As a second point I would like to address these quotes like 'water could be different on an other world' or 'we can not ever know' or 'unless we go to each planet we will never really know'. First off ... what a crock of shit! Water is 2 hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom from one end of the universe to the other. If one wants to argue that the earth has 'special' formation of water or different atomic and molecular rules than other places in the universe you have to explain it. Further this desire for 'eye-witness' interaction with 'everything' in the universe is useless from a science standpoint. (Well after a certain point. What is gained by observering the 40,000,001st Type Ia supernovae?) Physics is about understanding fundemental forces in the universe gravity, strong and weak nuclear, and electro-magnetic. These produce rules on how particles interact and how galaxies and solar systems form. They govern these actions everywhere.

The rules are the same all over.

We can grow to understand them.

We do not need to go everywhere to learn it.