Thought about the big bang!

[whar67]

well considering its all theory I cant prove otherwise. But just logically I dont see how thats possible. There has to be a before to be an after.

If its a theory it can be falsified, but mostly what I have been engaged in is conjecture or speculation. I certainly could not state it is a solid theory.

I think the phrasing should be does there have to be a then for there to be a now. The answer to this question seems to be no.

 

[TX_Made713]

If its a theory it can be falsified, but mostly what I have been engaged in is conjecture or speculation. I certainly could not state it is a solid theory.

I think the phrasing should be does there have to be a then for there to be a now. The answer to this question seems to be no.

I would go with no.

However since our understanding of reality is so bound by thinking linearly (time) and in 3 dimensions it becomes very difficult to visualize existence outside of them. The priniciple of casuality which is seems inviolable in our universe becomes hard to concieve if you lose the ability to separate causes from effects sequentially. I believe the permanance of existence is found in the first law of thermodynamics, energy can not be created or destroyed. It is therefore eternal. The energy expressed in this universe will be reabsorbed back into the multiverse and expressed again.

That is my answer. No

There are several different versions of the big bang theory which all state completely different things.

But in a sense this question of the "origin" of the universe might be possible to answer if we look at the future picture....the end of the universe

I know somebodies going to throw that energy law out there "WELL IT CANT BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED BLAH BLAH BLAH"

but if the universe has an origin then it does as well

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

so obviously we dont yet know exactly what's going on with existence as a whole and we can't yet categorically confirm or deny the presence of other universes...

... but why does that lead anyone to think that a MAGICAL SUPER MIND has anything to do with anything?

you're just projecting a human-like intelligence onto cosmic phenomena

 

[TX_Made713]

so obviously we dont yet know exactly what's going on with existence as a whole and we can't yet categorically confirm or deny the presence of other universes...

... but why does that lead anyone to think that a MAGICAL SUPER MIND has anything to do with anything?

you're just projecting a human-like intelligence onto cosmic phenomena

So by definition does a "God" have to be an intelligent being?

if the entire universe started from lets say a molecule entitled "X"...would that not be the "God" of us all?

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

So by definition does a "God" have to be an intelligent being?

if the entire universe started from lets say a molecule entitled "X"...would that not be the "God" of us all?

we can play around with the meaning of the word, but lets be real

you're talking about an intelligence deciding to make the world

 

[TX_Made713]

we can play around with the meaning of the word, but lets be real

you're talking about an intelligence deciding to make the world

Your theory would make sense but the one thing that makes me believe its a god is the grand design of the entire universe. As I stated before its no fluke that the earth is as close to the sun as it is. The way the earth was formed and able to sustain life, the planets being at the distance they are at, etc....

If everything just appeared out of nowhere with no intelligence behind it then it would be designed that exact way

 

[melanated khemist]

so obviously we dont yet know exactly what's going on with existence as a whole and we can't yet categorically confirm or deny the presence of other universes...



... but why does that lead anyone to think that a MAGICAL SUPER MIND has anything to do with anything?

you're just projecting a human-like intelligence onto cosmic phenomena

you are a lost soul.



you're just projecting a human-like intelligence onto cosmic phenomena

i suggest Mental Calisthenics, some of the shit u type is just plain DUMB!

 

[whar67]

Your theory would make sense but the one thing that makes me believe its a god is the grand design of the entire universe. As I stated before its no fluke that the earth is as close to the sun as it is. The way the earth was formed and able to sustain life, the planets being at the distance they are at, etc....

If everything just appeared out of nowhere with no intelligence behind it then it would be designed that exact way

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.'

-Douglass Adams

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Texas if your saying everything has to have a before and an after, your law would also have go for a great creator. You cant say well nothing can create itself yet apply it to an invisible man. And the Earth-Sun being such a perfect distance saying is far off. The amount the Earth can move closer to or further away from the sun is a lot further than what people who say that let on to.

 

[TX_Made713]

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.'

-Douglass Adams

I wonder how he feels about that quote now that hes dead

Texas if your saying everything has to have a before and an after, your law would also have go for a great creator. You cant say well nothing can create itself yet apply it to an invisible man. And the Earth-Sun being such a perfect distance saying is far off. The amount the Earth can move closer to or further away from the sun is a lot further than what people who say that let on to.

True enough, but the earth can also be the complete opposite.

The universe is like a giant shooting gallery and magically the earth never gets hit by anything deadly as of the last couple million years.

If my memory serves me correctly the earth is around 5 billion years old and only had a few catastrophic impacts in its lifetime

thats not an coincidence to me.

Meteors, gamma rays(the earth is in a path of one right now), black holes, colliding universes (even though this galaxy will collide with Andromeda in a nother couple billion years), etc and we are still here? yeah

 

[TX_Made713]

Texas if your saying everything has to have a before and an after, your law would also have go for a great creator. You cant say well nothing can create itself yet apply it to an invisible man. And the Earth-Sun being such a perfect distance saying is far off. The amount the Earth can move closer to or further away from the sun is a lot further than what people who say that let on to.

I use to say this all the time..

by mathematical terms...can 1 + 1 = 0?

 

[ThaChozenWun]

I use to say this all the time..

by mathematical terms...can 1 + 1 = 0?

From our understanding no. But to say oh we cant explain it so it has to be god is foolish. The past was this on a massive level, natural occurring things become god, earthquakes weren't plates shifting but god shaking, stars werent balls of gas and fire but rather Gods looking down at them.

I'm not dismissing the possibility, but to say it has to be simply because we can't explain it is ridiculous. There are things in life that are beyond our comprehension, we as a species are young and even as great as our minds are we would need another billion years to even begin to grasp certain areas that we study today.

And as for the Earth, we suffer catastrophic events because like you said we are in a shooting gallery, difference is that we are a big fuckin rock compared to whats being shot at us. Humans and animals have a natural instinct to adapt and survive, micro organisms can live is the craziest of places. Why? Who knows, again we can't explain some of it now but it does not mean there isn't one, it simply means it is beyond our understanding at this point.

This is how I see all these, "the probablity is so low it is impossible". Well take a shot glass, and grab say a billion pebbles. The probability of one of those pebbles fitting perfectly in that glass are so slim, probably 1 in a trillion. But eventually you will find a pebble that fits the glass perfectly. Does this mean that pebble was specifically created by god to fit that man made shot glass?

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Your theory would make sense but the one thing that makes me believe its a god is the grand design of the entire universe. As I stated before its no fluke that the earth is as close to the sun as it is. The way the earth was formed and able to sustain life, the planets being at the distance they are at, etc....

If everything just appeared out of nowhere with no intelligence behind it then it would be designed that exact way

the utter vastness of the universe makes it likely that at the very least, there will be some star systems that can support life on their planets

earth is just one such system

also, if it's a design, it's a heavily flawed one

earth itself is rife with natural problems: chaotic tectonic plate shifts, disastrous volcanic activity, and warming cycles that severely fuck up thousands of species at a time

then you got asteroids and meteors pelting the fuck out of it all the time, causing such shit as wiping out all the dinosaurs

then you got the sun always ready to wil' out and body us with radiation and solar flares

then look at the rest of the known universe. stars imploding/exploding, planets smashing into each other, gravity wells ruining whole worlds

design? maybe if god was drunk.

 

[whar67]

I wonder how he feels about that quote now that hes dead

He doesn't feel anything. He's fucking dead!

 

[whar67]

The universe is like a giant shooting gallery and magically the earth never gets hit by anything deadly as of the last couple million years.

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

- Douglas Adams

 

[And Step]

the big bang was not an explosion

it's the most erroneously named thing ever in science

also, the "cause" doesn't necessarily have to exist, since time only came into existence with the Big Bang, so there was no cause-and-effect principal in place "before" the Big Bang

Explosion, Expansion whatever. Neither one can manifest without elemental variables or enviromental changes.

Time is a measure of motion. So if we say the Big Bang happened and was the first creative act, then cause and effect came into existence during the act.

This would contradict the theory that it was an expansion, because you can only expand off of something that is in existence.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Explosion, Expansion whatever.

The significance of the difference is crucial.

Time is a measure of motion.

Time is a dimension. Height, width, depth, time, and apparently eight others, according to modern physics.

Frankly, nobody on the IC besides Whar67 is equipped to explain any of this stuff and everybody who jumps to the "THERE MUST BE MAGIC INVOLVED" conclusion is an idiot.

 

[TX_Made713]

Since KTULU wants to get technical with it Ill break it down like this (forgive me, im typing this with a massive headache)

Could there be a deity at the beginning of our universes creations?

lets break it down

first off to get the obvious explanations out the way,

First the physics of a universe and then why it hints at a grand creator...

If by chance some small speck of a volume existed prior to anything inside out space time continuum, Heisenbergs uncertainty principle would still be in effect. Do you guys know about quantum mechanics (the study of atoms on a miniature scale to understand the bigger picture of the universe)

the smallest a volume can become without turning into or collapsing on itself is in a range of 10 to the minus 9 something centimeters to 1 one thousandth of a gram. (dont quote me on it i dont remember the exact figures)

Now something that small, hot and dense will do the inevitable and explode (the elements inside will heat up and expand (inflation))

but all thats just theory. I broke down exactly how the big bang theory works and what happened in the beginning in my other post. you can read it whenever

Now if my memory serves me correctly, Hydrogen and helium are two of the most common elements inside the universe and play an important role.

the earth is exactly 140 some million kilos from the sun. any closer would make the magnetic force field around the earth slowly burn away, exposing the earth to the suns radiation....any further and the earth would not be warm enough to have created or sustain life (no plant life, no oxygen, no nothing)

The human body needs to live off the elements that make up the earth and without them...we die

its a reason for the tectonic plates to exist in the earth. Without them life would not be possible to exist at all. I can elaborate on this if you want but its besides the subject.

all the atoms in the universe that are heavier than hydrogen and helium basically forged in stars. The stars use hydrogen to create helium as a matter of fact. These elements and stars are the life line of the universe..

so with all of this explains the "grand design of the universe" by theory.

but doesnt answer the question if there is a designer..

Theoretically its possible to escape this universe and even create a new one which may hint at it. I will explain it in detail in part two of this post (only lets u type up so many words in one)

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

the earth is exactly 140 some million kilos from the sun.

Exactly some?

any closer would make the magnetic force field around the earth slowly burn away, exposing the earth to the suns radiation....

Any closer? No, LOL

any further and the earth would not be warm enough to have created or sustain life

Any further? No again, LOL

The human body needs to live off the elements that make up the earth and without them...we die

Of course it does. We evolved on this planet. We are made of the stuff that is here. This shit is tautological.

its a reason for the tectonic plates to exist in the earth. Without them life would not be possible to exist at all.

The point is, if the earth was designed for human life like you are saying, why is it constantly killing us with earthquakes, etc.?

all the atoms in the universe that are heavier than hydrogen and helium basically forged in stars. The stars use hydrogen to create helium as a matter of fact. These elements and stars are the life line of the universe.

And all of this is an observable NATURAL process. Nowhere does it hint at a hidden supernatural hand.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

the earth is exactly 140 some million kilos from the sun. any closer would make the magnetic force field around the earth slowly burn away, exposing the earth to the suns radiation....any further and the earth would not be warm enough to have created or sustain life (no plant life, no oxygen, no nothing)

This is what I was talking about earlier.

By cant move any closer you are meaning we couldnt move any closer forward..... except 7.5 billion meters.

As for our planet moving away from the sun... we could move back 37% from where we are now. This is about 50 billion meters.

And KTULU was right, if we and the Earth were designed for one another id would not be constantly trying to kill us off. Mans biggest thing in life is trying to figure out ways to beat the Earth, to keep its elements from destroying us. Even without modern technology we still were public enemy number one on Earth.