The Saga of the Legend Known as Dretox/Shadyteam/Wonderland/HazeNAlize/Bigavelli/Piff

[just.might.b.ok]

Royce is the King of Detroit? even thought he is not even from Detroit he is from Oak Park a Suburb of Michigan

Lol gotta love the IC

lets ask eminem then.

[video=youtube;K_O_-URLgIM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_O_-URLgIM[/video]

that beat >>>> the beat used in the jay version.

 

[its....JOHN B]

Royce is actually similar to Nas

Jay Z is similar to B.I.G.

Eminem is similar to ZRO & Redman

You can easily tell Kid Cudi was influenced by Eminem as far as the emotional Singing and being very personal with the content

Royce is a Rapper Nas is a Rapper

why am i even trying

 

[MR.CJ]

Royce is actually similar to Nas

Jay Z is similar to B.I.G.

Eminem is similar to ZRO & Redman

You can easily tell Kid Cudi was influenced by Eminem as far as the emotional Singing and being very personal with the content

Royce is a Rapper Nas is a Rapper

smh...........

 

[just.might.b.ok]

its not like niggas listen to rappers tryin to rap this days. its all over the beats and fags tryin to sing.

 

[dnyce215]

Royce is the King of Detroit? even thought he is not even from Detroit he is from Oak Park a Suburb of Michigan

Lol gotta love the IC

So the main theme here is royce can get at em in the lyrical aspect who cares royce is not from the D but he gets respect from there

Royce.>>>>>>>>>>em

 

[Weazel]

The b itch is crazy..

.......................................

 

[MR.CJ]

shadyteam is the same person that said 8 mile sold 300 million in 1 weekend. lol

 

[Mvpbrodie93]

Eminem is better then Royce. But Royce is HELLA underrated

lolololol

Life > any eminem song to his daughter. since he's not cryin all over it.

[video=youtube;9LAOUzwuDg4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LAOUzwuDg4[/video]

"he's Royce, he's the king of Detroit...".- Eminem

"eminem himself will tell you that im the only nigga livin that can spank him on the same record with him".- Royce

 

[isayas]

Royce is actually similar to Nas

Jay Z is similar to B.I.G.

Eminem is similar to ZRO & Redman

You can easily tell Kid Cudi was influenced by Eminem as far as the emotional Singing and being very personal with the content

Royce is a Rapper Nas is a Rapper

Whoa, relax. Cudi is not influence by Em, at all. Cudi is his own rapper, son.

 

[FunkyWindstarCaravan]

For me it boils down to cohesiveness. If you take the best/classic albums,(and not just in terms of hip hop, but I'll give hip hop examples) that are quote/unquote five mic albums, the album is a cohesive unit. I'll use ATCQ's The Low End Theory as an example. How many producers produced this album?? One. The group itself, with one track done by Skeff Anslem. Who was featured on the album besides the group? Brand Nubian & Diamond D on one track, and LONS on another. On a lesser extent, we can also throw in Vinia Mojica on the la la la's, and Ron Carter on the bass (both on the same track). Yet the album is all about the group. No 10-12 different producers and 20+ feature shit like today's hip hop albums.

Infact, if you take a look at The Source's "Five Mic Albums" list you will see that most of the list followed this model.

Albums That Originally Received Five Mics:

People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm -- A Tribe Called Quest

Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em -- Eric B. & Rakim

AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted -- Ice Cube

One for All -- Brand Nubian

De La Soul Is Dead -- De La Soul

The Low End Theory -- A Tribe Called Quest

Illmatic -- Nas

Life After Death -- The Notorious B.I.G.

Aquemini -- Outkast

The Blueprint -- Jay-Z

Stillmatic -- Nas

The Fix -- Scarface

The Naked Truth -- Lil' Kim

Trill OG -- Bun B

Even though Illmatic (the exception to the rule) had a few different producers, it was still cohesive because they were NY'ers who understood Nas' beat needs, plus he worked with the best.

Also hip hop is the only music that's sold cheap. The rap game is just like the crack game. Does Third Eye Blind, Oasis, The Rolling Stones, or even Sade and Stevie Wonder have to make 2 or 3 mixtapes before they're album drops? No, only rappers are forced to give away music like 2 for 5's on a street corner. So in turn it cheapens the value of the music, which is why we hear what we hear today. A thousand & one niggas that call themselves producers (with 3 chord melodies of course, made with ProTools, or FL Studio), and a million & two niggas who think they can rhyme, but lack any sort of talent, and moreso, direction to make anything cohesive.

 

[FunkyWindstarCaravan]

Furthermore, look at this list:

Albums That Never Originally Received Five Mics But Were Awarded Later:

Run-D.M.C. -- Run-D.M.C.

Radio -- LL Cool J

Licensed to Ill -- Beastie Boys

Raising Hell -- Run-D.M.C.

Criminal Minded -- Boogie Down Productions

Paid in Full -- Eric B. & Rakim

By All Means Necessary -- Boogie Down Productions

It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back -- Public Enemy

Long Live the Kane -- Big Daddy Kane

Critical Beatdown -- Ultramagnetic MCs

Straight Out the Jungle -- Jungle Brothers

Strictly Business -- EPMD

The Great Adventures of Slick Rick -- Slick Rick

Straight Outta Compton -- N.W.A.

No One Can Do It Better -- The D.O.C.

All Eyez on Me -- 2Pac

Minus Pac's album, all of these are produced by 1 producer (namely the group/or their primary producer) and hardly any features.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

I don't know about transcending the genre. I can tell you that nobody that isn't a die-hard hip hop fan appreciates "Illmatic" or "Reasonable Doubt" (I said it) and at least to me those are classics. I can say that The Adventures of B.o.B (or whatever it's called) transcended the genre but I wouldn't say its a classic by any means.

 

[G.R.I.P. Money $$$]

I can play it front to back

I can listen to it any time and it still sound new

i could care less if it transcends a genre(soulja boy has a classic by that logic)

i could care less what da source says

i could care less if other niggas say its a classic, it aint a classic to me unless i say it is...

 

[Mrslim1]

For me it boils down to cohesiveness. If you take the best/classic albums,(and not just in terms of hip hop, but I'll give hip hop examples) that are quote/unquote five mic albums, the album is a cohesive unit. I'll use ATCQ's The Low End Theory as an example. How many producers produced this album?? One. The group itself, with one track done by Skeff Anslem. Who was featured on the album besides the group? Brand Nubian & Diamond D on one track, and LONS on another. On a lesser extent, we can also throw in Vinia Mojica on the la la la's, and Ron Carter on the bass (both on the same track). Yet the album is all about the group. No 10-12 different producers and 20+ feature shit like today's hip hop albums.

Infact, if you take a look at The Source's "Five Mic Albums" list you will see that most of the list followed this model.

Albums That Originally Received Five Mics:

People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm -- A Tribe Called Quest

Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em -- Eric B. & Rakim

AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted -- Ice Cube

One for All -- Brand Nubian

De La Soul Is Dead -- De La Soul

The Low End Theory -- A Tribe Called Quest

Illmatic -- Nas

Life After Death -- The Notorious B.I.G.

Aquemini -- Outkast

The Blueprint -- Jay-Z

Stillmatic -- Nas

The Fix -- Scarface

The Naked Truth -- Lil' Kim

Trill OG -- Bun B

Even though Illmatic (the exception to the rule) had a few different producers, it was still cohesive because they were NY'ers who understood Nas' beat needs, plus he worked with the best.

Also hip hop is the only music that's sold cheap. The rap game is just like the crack game. Does Third Eye Blind, Oasis, The Rolling Stones, or even Sade and Stevie Wonder have to make 2 or 3 mixtapes before they're album drops? No, only rappers are forced to give away music like 2 for 5's on a street corner. So in turn it cheapens the value of the music, which is why we hear what we hear today. A thousand & one niggas that call themselves producers (with 3 chord melodies of course, made with ProTools, or FL Studio), and a million & two niggas who think they can rhyme, but lack any sort of talent, and moreso, direction to make anything cohesive.

Great Post the part I disagree with u is what I have bolded . I understand the angle of the record companies don't allow rappers to express themselves artistically etc . But rappers have to start making their music mean something and not just throw away songs . When we hear a Andre3000 verse we cherish them because they are rare now a days . They mean something.

 

[Mvpbrodie93]

Any album NOT by Eminem....

Or the dude in your avi....

 

[FunkyWindstarCaravan]

I

i could care less if other niggas say its a classic, it aint a classic to me unless i say it is...

Not to fuck with you, but I think the thread title said intelligent debate.

I understand where you coming from because all these 90's babies that think Carter 3, 4, or whatever the last Wayne disc was is a classic, I think it's str8 insane to use "Classic" & "Wayne" in any way/shape/form together. However they're are undebateable classics (Thriller, Songs In The Key of Life, Straight Outta Compton, Bitches Brew, Paid in Full, etc) whose impact is greater than your feelings/words toward them.

 

[G.R.I.P. Money $$$]

Not to fuck with you, but I think the thread title said intelligent debate.

I understand where you coming from because all these 90's babies that think Carter 3, 4, or whatever the last Wayne disc was is a classic, I think it's str8 insane to use "Classic" & "Wayne" in any way/shape/form together. However they're are undebateable classics (Thriller, Songs In The Key of Life, Straight Outta Compton, Bitches Brew, Paid in Full, etc) whose impact is greater than your feelings/words toward them.

yea dats a cool story and all, but when it comes to classics, i dont even take dat "impact" bullshit into account

there is no such thing as a undebateable classic, because everyone has different opinions..

u prolly think illmatic is a classic, i think it has nice songs but it isnt a classic to me

When the smoke clears by 3 6 mafia is a classic to me, ud prolly laugh, but ion give no fuck, classics are all based on PERSONAL opinion..

 

[FunkyWindstarCaravan]

Great Post the part I disagree with u is what I have bolded . I understand the angle of the record companies don't allow rappers to express themselves artistically etc . But rappers have to start making their music mean something and not just throw away songs . When we hear a Andre3000 verse we cherish them because they are rare now a days . They mean something.

What I meant was the genre itself is cheap. If any of those rock groups, or serious musicians, or people that have a "career" in music make extra tracks, it's sold as a B side, or its added to their greatest hits comp, or better yet gets sold as some "Lost Tapes/early sessions/unreleased" type recording where the artist/record label makes $$$. Rappers and hip hop fans suffer from a microwave mentality, where if "I don't get it out today, nobody'll care about it tomorrow". This all goes back to my original point of niggas with hardly any talent + too many mufuckaz thinking they can rhyme, and it floods/saturates the market with more crap, and little to no classic music that will be played even 4 years after it's released.

 

[FunkyWindstarCaravan]

yea dats a cool story and all, but when it comes to classics, i dont even take dat "impact" bullshit into account

there is no such thing as a undebateable classic, because everyone has different opinions..

u prolly think illmatic is a classic, i think it has nice songs but it isnt a classic to me

When the smoke clears by 3 6 mafia is a classic to me, ud prolly laugh, but ion give no fuck, classics are all based on PERSONAL opinion..

Your right, it is a matter of opinion.

Your right again, I do think Illmatic is a classic

Your right again, when you say I'd laugh at the Three Six statement.

I think I'm right in sayin that in our cases, geography and age probably plays a part in our opinions.

And I think I'm also right that since we agree it's a matter of opinion, there are more people of the opinion Illmatic is more of a classic than When The Smoke Clears.

What makes "When the Smoke Clears" a classic to you? Because you can play it Front to Back? Nostalgia?

For me Illmatic is classic because:

There's only one filler track > I anticipated his debut since Barb-Q > He delivered lyrically > It's a young hungry-sounding, project-dwelling Nas.

Even tho' I feel it's a classic it still has the drawback of being too short.

 

[Mrslim1]

What I meant was the genre itself is cheap. If any of those rock groups, or serious musicians, or people that have a "career" in music make extra tracks, it's sold as a B side, or its added to their greatest hits comp, or better yet gets sold as some "Lost Tapes/early sessions/unreleased" type recording where the artist/record label makes $$$. Rappers and hip hop fans suffer from a microwave mentality, where if "I don't get it out today, nobody'll care about it tomorrow". This all goes back to my original point of niggas with hardly any talent + too many mufuckaz thinking they can rhyme, and it floods/saturates the market with more crap, and little to no classic music that will be played even 4 years after it's released.

I agree 100% . Thats when the FAN has to be more music savvy and support the great music that does exist and stop supporting bs just because " it knocks in the whip"