The Official "Convince Me" Thread...DoUWant2Go2Heaven?, get in here.

[ThaChozenWun]

No(to first question). If anything it would prove miracles can occur, which athiusts must not believe in because "you cant put miracles in a lab and study them". It is just evidence that things that science would claim to be "impossible", are possible. Good point about the power of our minds, but no matter what potential our minds have, they would need the potential to see the future, in order to scientifally explain psychic experiences, and so to know information about what will happen in a day,month, year etc. it has to come from some all knowing source. just makes you wonder.

What is a mirical though? Just because something has a very small chance of happening does not prove that its divine. There are tons of useless things with the same probabilities as what Christians refer to as miricals or proof that god created it all. Do you realize when the bible was written alot of the things they considered miricals are everyday occurences to us now with a factual explanation? In the future what we claim as miricals now will have the same thing.

 

[VIBE]

What is a mirical though? Just because something has a very small chance of happening does not prove that its divine. There are tons of useless things with the same probabilities as what Christians refer to as miricals or proof that god created it all. Do you realize when the bible was written alot of the things they considered miricals are everyday occurences to us now with a factual explanation? In the future what we claim as miricals now will have the same thing.

That's because we have understanding, we have science, we have history. If we didn't have these things, they WOULD be miracles.

There are things though still today considered miracles. This word is thrown around a lot, used way to loosely.

On 9/11 a man by the name of Stanley Praimnath, who was on the level of where the plane hit, said he turned around and looked out the window and seen a plane coming at him (1st plane that hit, flight 11) and he said he yelled out, "God, I don't know what to do, help me". He hid under his desk and the plane hit. HIT in his office, yes! He said he came out and the wing was there in his office on fire.

He made it out, not only that, as soon as he came out of the building it started collapsing.

He pretty much evaded death twice. This isn't "Final Destination" this is a miracle. God for His reasons, helped this man through this. Why? This man pretty much said, "it's in your hands", he put his faith into God.

But of course that cannot still prove to anyone here, because once someone tries to say or prove something it's detoured by another question or explanation.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

That's because we have understanding, we have science, we have history. If we didn't have these things, they WOULD be miracles.

And that is part of the reason I dont believe the bible, because they attributed any and everything they couldnt explain at that time to a God. And what they claim as miricals werent, why should I believe anything else they say being that alot of it has a scientific, logical, and easily proven theory as to how it happened without any divine intervention.

There are things though still today considered miracles. This word is thrown around a lot, used way to loosely.

On 9/11 a man by the name of Stanley Praimnath, who was on the level of where the plane hit, said he turned around and looked out the window and seen a plane coming at him (1st plane that hit, flight 11) and he said he yelled out, "God, I don't know what to do, help me". He hid under his desk and the plane hit. HIT in his office, yes! He said he came out and the wing was there in his office on fire.

He made it out, not only that, as soon as he came out of the building it started collapsing.

He pretty much evaded death twice. This isn't "Final Destination" this is a miracle. God for His reasons, helped this man through this. Why? This man pretty much said, "it's in your hands", he put his faith into God.

But of course that cannot still prove to anyone here, because once someone tries to say or prove something it's detoured by another question or explanation.

That does not provide a divine proof though, athiest are put into situations and can avoid death, they do not place anything in gods hands. If someone is a christian of course they say "well it must be god" I want to know why it has to be god when it happens more than we think. Usually you throw out a probability and there are miilions of other things with the same probability not tending to a god. Could these be god and not just a probability of course, no one knows what is out there, do I believe its any religious books god, hell no.

 

[VIBE]

And that is part of the reason I dont believe the bible, because they attributed any and everything they couldnt explain at that time to a God. And what they claim as miricals werent, why should I believe anything else they say being that alot of it has a scientific, logical, and easily proven theory as to how it happened without any divine intervention.

That does not provide a divine proof though, athiest are put into situations and can avoid death, they do not place anything in gods hands. If someone is a christian of course they say "well it must be god" I want to know why it has to be god when it happens more than we think. Usually you throw out a probability and there are miilions of other things with the same probability not tending to a god. Could these be god and not just a probability of course, no one knows what is out there, do I believe its any religious books god, hell no.

1st comment - They figured out ALL miracles in the bible? I think not. Only the plagues and parting of the sea. What else have they "debunked"?? It isn't even really debunking, you gotta think, they seen these as miracles so no matter the explanation, back then it WAS a miracle. Today yes it can be explained but not all the bible.

2nd - I never stated he was Christian or even religious and neither did he, he just stated he put it in God's hands. To me that is a miracle, considering how the day turned out to be. 2 planes, both building collapse. This man survived the initial impact of the plane, made it out of the fire, debris and everything and made it out just in time before the building collapse. Oh, not to mention, he couldn't find his way out, and one man by the name of Brian Clark just happened to say, "we should check rooms", people were like hell no! He stayed and checked into a place where Stanley was, helped him out of the debris piled room and out of the building. If it wasn't for Brian Clark, Stanley would've died BUT it is divine intervention. Argue all you want, it is what it is. Read the story dude, I've not only read it in, "102 Minutes", I've watched it on tv and read it online. All of that good stuff.

God saved this mans life for a reason, that being, his FAITH in God. At the last second asking God to take over.

 

[EvanR12]

What is a mirical though? Just because something has a very small chance of happening does not prove that its divine. There are tons of useless things with the same probabilities as what Christians refer to as miricals or proof that god created it all. Do you realize when the bible was written alot of the things they considered miricals are everyday occurences to us now with a factual explanation? In the future what we claim as miricals now will have the same thing.

The miracle is knowing things are going to happen before they happen. If on multiple occasions, you have dreams of like for example, a kid(who you havnt seen in 15 years) walks up to you and asks you "hey do you enjoy hockey?" in the dream. The next day, you see him for the first time in 15 years and he asks that exact question. and stuff like this happens often. You technically could claim that its a coincidence. But ya right, i do not believe thats just a coincedence if it is happening at that scale i believe you are recieving information from an all knowing source.

You are basically assuming that their is a scientific explanation for people who can tell the future. The same way religious people assume their is a god. So are you for or against assumptions with no proof? Im not trying to argue for any certain religion, but with my life experiences i just believe more and more that there is some sort of other "side". Beyond the physical world. One of the first laws of chemistry almost proves that there has to be another side we do not understand. "energy(or matter i forget) can not be created or destroyed"........................ So you can either assume that god made it, or you can assume there is some scientific explanation. You are both assuming.

And religion isnt always about just needing to feel like you have purpose, Buddhism for example, is more of a way to live life in a peacefull state of enlightenment in which you can escape temptations, and just the sadness of reality. Loved ones dying, aging, disease, jealousy, etc. And if you follow that religion you really will escape those things. I dont see athiusts offering a superior method to living a fullfilling life. They often come across as arrogent kinda like they think they are so smart(not you just some)The Buddists i meet come across as content, humble, and good intended. Respond to the first two points though, i just added this in for an extra kick

 

[VIBE]

The miracle is knowing things are going to happen before they happen. If on multiple occasions, you have dreams of like for example, a kid(who you havnt seen in 15 years) walks up to you and asks you "hey do you enjoy hockey?" in the dream. The next day, you see him for the first time in 15 years and he asks that exact question. and stuff like this happens often. You technically could claim that its a coincidence. But ya right, i do not believe thats just a coincedence if it is happening at that scale i believe you are recieving information from an all knowing source.

You are basically assuming that their is a scientific explanation for people who can tell the future. The same way religious people assume their is a god. So are you for or against assumptions with no proof? Im not trying to argue for any certain religion, but with my life experiences i just believe more and more that there is some sort of other "side". Beyond the physical world.

And religion isnt always about just needing to feel like you have purpose, Buddhism for example, is more of a way to live life in a peacefull state of enlightenment in which you can escape temptations, and just the sadness of reality. Loved ones dying, aging, disease, jealousy, etc. And if you follow that religion you really will escape those things. I dont see athiusts offering a superior method to living a fullfilling life. They often come across as arrogent kinda like they think they are so smart(not you just some)The Buddists i meet come across as content, humble, and good intended. Respond to the first two points though, i just added this in for an extra kick

Bro, I'm sorry but I do not believe you dreaming about someone you haven't seen in 15 years then it actually coming true is truly a "miracle". There's days where I think of my Uncle, and he happens to call me at the exact moment or day. That is no miracle, it's just "just".

I wouldn't call it a "miracle" or a "coincidence" but if it is something significant, that you've been wondering or asking that's related to God then it's God speaking through something/someone to YOU.

That's happened to me.God has never spoken to me in a voice or a visual spirit but through other things/people. That I would consider God speaking. Not a miracle though, a miracle to me is something that happens that is pretty much "impossible", like someone living 100 days without food or water, that is impossible but if someone did it, that would honestly be a miracle. It's the extremeness of the situation that makes it a miracle. At least to me.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Bro, I'm sorry but I do not believe you dreaming about someone you haven't seen in 15 years then it actually coming true is truly a "miracle". There's days where I think of my Uncle, and he happens to call me at the exact moment or day. That is no miracle, it's just "just".

I wouldn't call it a "miracle" or a "coincidence" but if it is something significant, that you've been wondering or asking that's related to God then it's God speaking through something/someone to YOU.

That's happened to me.God has never spoken to me in a voice or a visual spirit but through other things/people. That I would consider God speaking. Not a miracle though, a miracle to me is something that happens that is pretty much "impossible", like someone living 100 days without food or water, that is impossible but if someone did it, that would honestly be a miracle. It's the extremeness of the situation that makes it a miracle. At least to me.

Thats what i was trying to get at. Some things are miraculous, there is the probability of it being a random event but its still miraculous to say the least. Some things do seem as if God has intervened. Most of the things though people claim to be miricals are not, or people say well he asked god for help and he got it so it must be true. No, its a probability that something like that will happen, the worst the even the less the probability it will, but it still exist. Every single person surviving an event is not a mirical. Deja Vu is not a mirical, rain is not a mirical, you prayin for someone to come out of a coma and it happening is not a mirical. They happen all the time, no matter what religion or belief the person associates themselves with. The story you posted earlier, that can be called a mirical, in your eyes it is, but there were other people who were on the exact floors the planes hit and made it out before it crumbled also. Like I said is it a possible mirical based off just his story, yea it seems that way, it might have been a god who willed him out. But what makes his story any different than the others is just that he asked for help, had someone said Satan rescue me, and they were helped out in time, than you would also have to belief satan does good for people.

And to Evan, this is thread about god, you were talking about Godly miricals, then your last paragraph you talk about Buddhist. Well Buddhist dont believe in a great creator.

 

[kids in america_]

Us atheists have formed our views based on there not being sufficient proof to convince us otherwise.

But I'm willing to create a haven that theists can use to provide that proof (if they can) to convince us otherwise.

I'll start off by saying, what would appear to be an inability to provide a "who" or "what" for various processes and "explanations" does not automatically equate to there being a God, or "goddidit."

It's not your time to believe in 'god'.

 

[VIBE]

Thats what i was trying to get at. Some things are miraculous, there is the probability of it being a random event but its still miraculous to say the least. Some things do seem as if God has intervened. Most of the things though people claim to be miricals are not, or people say well he asked god for help and he got it so it must be true. No, its a probability that something like that will happen, the worst the even the less the probability it will, but it still exist. Every single person surviving an event is not a mirical. Deja Vu is not a mirical, rain is not a mirical, you prayin for someone to come out of a coma and it happening is not a mirical. They happen all the time, no matter what religion or belief the person associates themselves with. The story you posted earlier, that can be called a mirical, in your eyes it is, but there were other people who were on the exact floors the planes hit and made it out before it crumbled also. Like I said is it a possible mirical based off just his story, yea it seems that way, it might have been a god who willed him out. But what makes his story any different than the others is just that he asked for help, had someone said Satan rescue me, and they were helped out in time, than you would also have to belief satan does good for people.

And to Evan, this is thread about god, you were talking about Godly miricals, then your last paragraph you talk about Buddhist. Well Buddhist dont believe in a great creator.

I know quite a bit about 9/11, I've never heard one other story like Stanley's. There may have been survivors there, on those floors or nearby but what makes his stand out is him seeing the plane come towards him and hitting his floor like that. The story is more in depth, more detail to it but what I explained is the the gist of the story.

I think now he is a religious person, I'm not sure what he follows though.

 

[EvanR12]

Thats what i was trying to get at. Some things are miraculous, there is the probability of it being a random event but its still miraculous to say the least. Some things do seem as if God has intervened. Most of the things though people claim to be miricals are not, or people say well he asked god for help and he got it so it must be true. No, its a probability that something like that will happen, the worst the even the less the probability it will, but it still exist. Every single person surviving an event is not a mirical. Deja Vu is not a mirical, rain is not a mirical, you prayin for someone to come out of a coma and it happening is not a mirical. They happen all the time, no matter what religion or belief the person associates themselves with. The story you posted earlier, that can be called a mirical, in your eyes it is, but there were other people who were on the exact floors the planes hit and made it out before it crumbled also. Like I said is it a possible mirical based off just his story, yea it seems that way, it might have been a god who willed him out. But what makes his story any different than the others is just that he asked for help, had someone said Satan rescue me, and they were helped out in time, than you would also have to belief satan does good for people.

And to Evan, this is thread about god, you were talking about Godly miricals, then your last paragraph you talk about Buddhist. Well Buddhist dont believe in a great creator.

Ya thats why i said i just added that in for an extra kick and to just respond to the first part. I dont even know what i follow, i just know i have had psychic experiences and have just witnessed alot of evidence that there is some other side beyond the physical world as we know and understand.And I am just not impressed by athiests who just always say "you cant prove god in a labratory etc". I realized that when i was like 5 years old, you cant really measure love in a labratory either but i think we all can feel that at some point.

The Universe is absolutely crazy, it pretty much can not end first of all, what is it going to just end at a brick wall? and supposedly energy or matter can not be created or destroyed so according to chemistry, the universe must have just always been there and reactions just occur that transfer energy to different forms. but that is the physical world. If God exists, it is in another realm, not our physical universe. imo

i dont know, i dont think we are sophistaicated enough to even really understand it even if it was placed right in front of our faces, which it probably is.

 

[Punisher__]

I saw a pink elephant standing outside my window.

God must be trying to tell me something.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Ya thats why i said i just added that in for an extra kick and to just respond to the first part. I dont even know what i follow, i just know i have had psychic experiences and have just witnessed alot of evidence that there is some other side beyond the physical world as we know and understand.And I am just not impressed by athiests who just always say "you cant prove god in a labratory etc". I realized that when i was like 5 years old, you cant really measure love in a labratory either but i think we all can feel that at some point.

The Universe is absolutely crazy, it pretty much can not end first of all, what is it going to just end at a brick wall? and supposedly energy or matter can not be created or destroyed so according to chemistry, the universe must have just always been there and reactions just occur that transfer energy to different forms. but that is the physical world.

i dont know, i dont think we are sophistaicated enough to even really understand it even if it was placed right in front of our faces, which it probably is.

The secret is we are gods, we just have failed to understand this and like I said the things our minds are capable of when we probably dont even have 1% of them explored, who knows what we can do. It could be we are gods and we just arent able to grasp and use our abilities yet.

 

[EvanR12]

The secret is we are gods, we just have failed to understand this and like I said the things our minds are capable of when we probably dont even have 1% of them explored, who knows what we can do. It could be we are gods and we just arent able to grasp and use our abilities yet.

Ya, and everyone assumes that to use our brains to full capacity, we have to think about things all the time and figure things out, when actually we end up thinking ourselves in circles and get no where. And the only way to really achieve a complete thought, and achieve the use of higher capacity is by clearing your mind of all thoughts for a long period of time(bruce lee said that).Which is what Buddhism and Christianity both say to do. lol i just made that up right now im definatly always saying that now

 

[EvanR12]

Ya, and everyone assumes that to use our brains to full capacity, we have to think about things all the time and figure things out, when actually we end up thinking ourselves in circles and get no where. And the only way to really achieve a complete thought, and achieve the use of higher capacity is by clearing your mind of all thoughts for a long period of time(bruce lee said that).Which is what Buddhism and Christianity both say to do. lol i just made that up right now im definatly always saying that now

Yes i am responding to myself

But Evan, you used logic and figuring to figure out that, so the reason you can achieve higher capacity by not thinking, is from first thinking, so what if there is more we can figure out from figuring things out also (then brain explodes)