The Nagging Mom: What the **** is up with women and censorship?

[The Lonious Monk]

I always think it's funny that people complain about the women in comics and video games being scantily clad as if you can't go outside on any given day and see women walking around scantily clad. Outside of professional/office type environments, tell me an arena where women frequent where there aren't chicks walking around with shit hanging out. It's not like men make them dress like that. A lot of women actually like wearing revealing shit. So that's ok, but if a dude creates a fictional character that does the same, it's a sin? Craziness.

so the overwhelming majority of women out in public outside of a professional setting you see are either dressed in barely there mini skirts; skin tight spandex from head to toe and stilettos; or barely there tops to show off their DD breast, because according to video games and comics we all have DD breast???? lol

the issue is the lack of balance....the lack of nuance

Video games are products of fiction. There is no expectation of balance or nuance. In fact, the purpose of many games is to do away with such limitations. No, the average average woman doesn't walk around looking like a warrior stripper, but the average man doesn't walk around looking like a Greek god either. This is such a nonsensical issue. The media you're referring to is highly fantasy based. That's basically the point. lol @ Designing a video game with a main character that looks like some mundane bad bodied chick you'd run into at a Golden Corral.

males characters have far more varied/nuanced portrayals and more varied body types unlike female characters

and even though these are products of fiction they have the ability to influence and reinforce negative attitudes towards body image and all the other -isms

you can laugh at it. dismiss it. cool

we'll just have to agree to disagree

lol Yeah, we can agree to disagree. If you're playing a video game and disturbed because your body doesn't look like the fictional unrealistic character in the game you're playing, you've got some issues you need to work through. At some point we have to stop blaming artistic outlets for for people's hangups.

 

[LordZuko]

I always think it's funny that people complain about the women in comics and video games being scantily clad as if you can't go outside on any given day and see women walking around scantily clad. Outside of professional/office type environments, tell me an arena where women frequent where there aren't chicks walking around with shit hanging out. It's not like men make them dress like that. A lot of women actually like wearing revealing shit. So that's ok, but if a dude creates a fictional character that does the same, it's a sin? Craziness.

so the overwhelming majority of women out in public outside of a professional setting you see are either dressed in barely there mini skirts; skin tight spandex from head to toe and stilettos; or barely there tops to show off their DD breast, because according to video games and comics we all have DD breast???? lol

the issue is the lack of balance....the lack of nuance

males characters have far more varied/nuanced portrayals and more varied body types unlike female characters

and even though these are products of fiction they have the ability to influence and reinforce negative attitudes towards body image and all the other -isms

you can laugh at it. dismiss it. cool

we'll just have to agree to disagree

@Madame_CJSkywalker

Ok. Compare and contrast the types and nuances between the portrayed sexes in video games and comics

You made the claim now back it up.

men are often either lean, fit, heavy set, muscular, etc

women are either fit or curvy heavy chested

men are super heroes, anti-heroes, villains, crime bosses, adventurers, soldiers, scientist, conquers, kings, assassins, race car drivers, policemen, detectives, etc

more male characters have back stories, are playable, have more speaking parts

while there are exceptions...women, same as poc, are mostly reduced to being the love interest, object of lust, something to be saved or the side kick

i'm more into games so like i stated earlier in one of the most highest rated and best selling games ever the women are often prostitutes or strippers. players can have sex with them and physically harm them, which can be followed by a reward of money or extra health

with final fantasy 15 i was disappointed there were no female protagonist, playable characters they usually do a good job. the creator's excuse: ""Speaking honestly, an all-male party feels almost more approachable for players."
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-director-talks-about-the-all-male/1100-6426084/

in a game like bio shock infinite there is a female character who can pick any lock, tear open portals in space and time and summon weapons from thin air but she still needs to be rescued by a man

Ok. See here's your problem. You seem to think that There's zero difference between male and female outside anatomical.

Men are more prone to do dangerous things
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://journal.sjdm.org/jdm06016.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw0tYzL2DHnCo-l6y2Pb79mR
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hbr.org/2013/02/do-women-take-as-many-risks-as&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFgg4MAI&usg=AOvVaw2YIPVRmG_ce4xR_WCjLXNY

We can extrapolate that data not only to the physical activities men engage in, but the types of videogames they play.

Many of the adventure action horror games are stress inducing.

Women don't like to be stressed
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886904000200&ved=0ahUKEwjQ4oXW_P3WAhUk0IMKHW_sDKoQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw3UQsRxkHRtbC_wzRpmEzb2

The mind does not distinguish fiction from reality. So in game stress is not separate from real life stress.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/&ved=0ahUKEwjRuu-S_f3WAhUH5IMKHSESDgEQFggpMAA&usg=AOvVaw0UxjXgTzwoYWmJXRFcp9tL

The games that women dominate are Facebook games. Shit you play while you're killing time at work. The second largest group of females play mmorpgs which have customizable characters.

This article mentions over watch as being popular among females because of female characters. The female characters are super op.
https://kotaku.com/study-shows-which-video-game-genres-women-play-most-1791435415

Action, survival horror, fps, adventure are games few females play. It's not because of a lack of female protagonists. Resident evil is a popular series in survival horror, not many female players. Same with tomb raider.

It's not lack of female protagonist like you want it to be, it's a lack of interest. Men and women are interested in different things, even different types of video games.

 

[LordZuko]

Secondly, there are few very few fat video game characters.

None of those characters are popular among men.

Male characters fit a narrow range. They are fit tall and have an expertise.

Yea a lot of female characters are those that need to be rescued. But that's not even a far cry from reality. Females irl, are always crying and demanding that men save them from some situation real or imagined. You're in this thread demanding that men save you from the terror of male dominated industry, the evil that this is.

Men also like to rescue damsels in distress. It's just male programming. There's nothing wrong with either of these scenarios especially given my previous post that shows the games with those features you and other females complain about, have low female audience.

If there is not a denial of opportunity then you have no case. No one is locking women out of anything in fact major dollars are being spent to push women into fields.

 

[LEMZIMUS_RAMSEY]

None of these strong wonen called for the boycottt of 50 SHADES OF GREY films. I have seen no petition against Dr Grey.

 

[LordZuko]

Lastly, stop hiding behind this beneficent mother facade. Fuck you and whatever kids under your care. You can shield them from whatever, that's your call. But that shield does not extend past your personal residence.

You are the same female who tried to say violent video games cause real world violence. Violent tv shows did the same thing. The same females responsible for the temperance movement that led to alcohol prohibition that actually lead to a rise in violent crimes.

You're the same females who shut down coffee houses in England because men spent too much time there.

Like seriously.

In short females are in general miserable creatures that are always trying to take things away from Men.

 

[deadeye]

You know you got somebody on the ropes when they start bringing up irrelevant shit like time spent posting. That's ad hominem. We grown ups here.

To give these pseudo mandates that art needs to represent any particular group sets an awful precedent. It's a slippery slope towards fascism which left wing/liberals are prone to do.

As a creator of comics and other literature i would be incensed if some asshole told me that i have to put x amount of people in my work because x amount of people buy it. Fuck all the way off. The audacity. I create stories with majority black people and other ethnic groups. I'll be damned if someone tells me i need to make or include these people. So that means on principle i must defend a white boy creating art about majority or even all white people and his interpretation of with any group.

The "fight" to mandate equity and representation in art is a causal cycloid, a vicious cycle where some group can use the legitimate complaint they aren't represented in such and such work. It'll be gays women and poc, next week it's fat girls, asexuals, and biracial Chinese midgets. You can cut the equity pie into countless pieces until it essentially dissolves into individuality or a horrible story built on contrived identity politics.

lol @ ad hominem

you keep repeating my argument is stupid so naturally the question then becomes why spend some much time arguing with a person who you feel is so beneath you and just regurgitating talking points they googled

and its so rich the person who is quick to resort to name calling and cheap character attacks telling anyone to grow up...but i digress...

free speech is vital ...artist can do what they like

but considering we all have to co-exist with each other on this earth some of us feel artist, like everyone else, shouldn't be shielded from criticism. and should be held accountable for the part they play in perpetuating and encouraging anti-social behavior like racism and sexism. or if they have a history of purposely excluding large swaths of ppl from their work

and we as consumers, men and women, have the responsibility for demanding fair representation and more games that portray strong and nuanced female and poc characters

also the majority of comic book artists, game developers working in the industry and in major studios are straight white men and grew up as big fans of comics and video games ...you think that is a coincidence??? lol

i'd argue all the evidence suggest no. and as i've been arguing by promoting diversity it will help attract more poc and women to the fold and get them interested in technology, graphic design at an early age

things that will close the wage gap...and video games have been shown to greatly improve one's cognitive skills

that said, there is a difference between you and a white man creating a fictional new york city, for ex, where ppl of different races and or gender are absent or lacking. the writing of and promoting to prominence productions dominated by “white” characters is about power and influence. expanding these ” roles" to all is about redressing this

that said, this idea this is just not about anyone trying to ruin ur fun is ridiculous and a over simplification of what i or liked minded individuals have argued

You hide your blatant fascist attempts behind this pursuit of altruism. You're an ideologue whose ideas must be challenged.

Consumers can Give their opinion and vote with their dollars. They don't have any right to demand anything from a creator because a creator is not an elected or duly appointed official. Representation is a mandate of a republic not a privately owned company or an artist.

So what if the majority of comic book and video game creators are white Men. That's not a crime. Now if you say that x company is this demographic because they've denied the hiring of x and x demographic that's different. But you can't say that because both marvel and dc, the big two, have employed women, Latinos, and blacks at every level.

You're trying to establish this equality of outcome without even knowing if their is a failure in equality of opportunity. You haven't even established that any demographic is denied an opportunity to become an artist, game dev, graphic designer, etc, etc. You haven't even determined that.

There's nothing stopping anyone from playing video games.

Your arguments are weak. On their face it's nothing but fascist rhetoric disguised as liberal altruism, diversity, multiculturalism, what about the kids? Non existent wage gap.

Omae wa mu shinderu

lol @fascist

and there is no wage gap between whites and poc...between men and women, particularly between white men and poc????? a gap that shrinks when you factor in occupation, educational background???

while marvel and dc have employed poc and women...the majority of their writers and editors are white men. the majority of their creators and editors for their major franchises are white men

it's not just a issue of what i believe to be discriminatory hiring practices...and i never said that

it is also an issue of ppl being conditioned,via mass marketing, the lack of poc/female protagonist, to believe video games, comic are only for boys or only for men particularly only for white men....i hate we associate these things with being nerdy as well

being a blk woman, an aunt and parental figure to young children this shit interest me...but think what u want...

and as a consumer you can do as you want

like i was saying it is up to us the consumers opposed to the government to hold these industries, artist, developers accountable.... and demand (i.e. making our opinions known, withholding of our dollars) what we want to see more or less of

and tryna silence or shame ppl who are just stating their opinion by calling them fascist is a form of censorship bruh

I'm not. @theloniousmonk

You're not going to engage in circular arguments with me.



What's up with you childless weirdos that don't have kids but you lust after influence over other children?

 

[AggieLean.]

You know you got somebody on the ropes when they start bringing up irrelevant shit like time spent posting. That's ad hominem. We grown ups here.

To give these pseudo mandates that art needs to represent any particular group sets an awful precedent. It's a slippery slope towards fascism which left wing/liberals are prone to do.

As a creator of comics and other literature i would be incensed if some asshole told me that i have to put x amount of people in my work because x amount of people buy it. Fuck all the way off. The audacity. I create stories with majority black people and other ethnic groups. I'll be damned if someone tells me i need to make or include these people. So that means on principle i must defend a white boy creating art about majority or even all white people and his interpretation of with any group.

The "fight" to mandate equity and representation in art is a causal cycloid, a vicious cycle where some group can use the legitimate complaint they aren't represented in such and such work. It'll be gays women and poc, next week it's fat girls, asexuals, and biracial Chinese midgets. You can cut the equity pie into countless pieces until it essentially dissolves into individuality or a horrible story built on contrived identity politics.

lol @ ad hominem

you keep repeating my argument is stupid so naturally the question then becomes why spend some much time arguing with a person who you feel is so beneath you and just regurgitating talking points they googled

and its so rich the person who is quick to resort to name calling and cheap character attacks telling anyone to grow up...but i digress...

free speech is vital ...artist can do what they like

but considering we all have to co-exist with each other on this earth some of us feel artist, like everyone else, shouldn't be shielded from criticism. and should be held accountable for the part they play in perpetuating and encouraging anti-social behavior like racism and sexism. or if they have a history of purposely excluding large swaths of ppl from their work

and we as consumers, men and women, have the responsibility for demanding fair representation and more games that portray strong and nuanced female and poc characters

also the majority of comic book artists, game developers working in the industry and in major studios are straight white men and grew up as big fans of comics and video games ...you think that is a coincidence??? lol

i'd argue all the evidence suggest no. and as i've been arguing by promoting diversity it will help attract more poc and women to the fold and get them interested in technology, graphic design at an early age

things that will close the wage gap...and video games have been shown to greatly improve one's cognitive skills

that said, there is a difference between you and a white man creating a fictional new york city, for ex, where ppl of different races and or gender are absent or lacking. the writing of and promoting to prominence productions dominated by “white” characters is about power and influence. expanding these ” roles" to all is about redressing this

that said, this idea this is just not about anyone trying to ruin ur fun is ridiculous and a over simplification of what i or liked minded individuals have argued

You hide your blatant fascist attempts behind this pursuit of altruism. You're an ideologue whose ideas must be challenged.

Consumers can Give their opinion and vote with their dollars. They don't have any right to demand anything from a creator because a creator is not an elected or duly appointed official. Representation is a mandate of a republic not a privately owned company or an artist.

So what if the majority of comic book and video game creators are white Men. That's not a crime. Now if you say that x company is this demographic because they've denied the hiring of x and x demographic that's different. But you can't say that because both marvel and dc, the big two, have employed women, Latinos, and blacks at every level.

You're trying to establish this equality of outcome without even knowing if their is a failure in equality of opportunity. You haven't even established that any demographic is denied an opportunity to become an artist, game dev, graphic designer, etc, etc. You haven't even determined that.

There's nothing stopping anyone from playing video games.

Your arguments are weak. On their face it's nothing but fascist rhetoric disguised as liberal altruism, diversity, multiculturalism, what about the kids? Non existent wage gap.

Omae wa mu shinderu

lol @fascist

and there is no wage gap between whites and poc...between men and women, particularly between white men and poc????? a gap that shrinks when you factor in occupation, educational background???

while marvel and dc have employed poc and women...the majority of their writers and editors are white men. the majority of their creators and editors for their major franchises are white men

it's not just a issue of what i believe to be discriminatory hiring practices...and i never said that

it is also an issue of ppl being conditioned,via mass marketing, the lack of poc/female protagonist, to believe video games, comic are only for boys or only for men particularly only for white men....i hate we associate these things with being nerdy as well

being a blk woman, an aunt and parental figure to young children this shit interest me...but think what u want...

and as a consumer you can do as you want

like i was saying it is up to us the consumers opposed to the government to hold these industries, artist, developers accountable.... and demand (i.e. making our opinions known, withholding of our dollars) what we want to see more or less of

and tryna silence or shame ppl who are just stating their opinion by calling them fascist is a form of censorship bruh

I'm not. @theloniousmonk

You're not going to engage in circular arguments with me.

The video game industry is hella diverse there's no all white or all male anything. There's also no denial of opportunity to be involved in that industry on any level, including starting your own female focused dev company. That's done. You have no rebuttal

The American comic book industry is a shonen focused (male centered) platform. It was made to appeal to males. There's nothing wrong with that because artists are under no obligation to represent or reflect any demographic or politic. The majority of people wanting to get into comics are white males. However there is nothing stopping a black person, gay person, trans person, or female person from starting their own indie company that focuses on a particular demographic. No denial of opportunity. Case closed.

There are many black people who flock to manga and anime. The average hood nigga under 25 knows more about naruto than batman. The average nerdy black girl knows more about Korean dramas than about an episode of teen titans.

Should black people begin to demand that Japanese and Korean creators include them in their product because they are consumers, or should niggas fall back and just enjoy the product for what it is?

Niggas enjoy anime so much that they emulate the style in their art work, drawing black characters. Biggest example is boondocks.

You've failed once more to establish a denial of opportunity. You get one last chance to bring up a fresh relevant point.

I feel sorry for whatever children under the sphere of your influence. As if niggas don't have enough problems.

What's up with you childless weirdos that don't have kids but you lust after influence over other children?

Wish I could goat your last sentence 100 times.

 

[LordZuko]

Here's this hoe's whole problem

You seem to think that There's zero difference between male and female outside anatomical.

Men are more prone to do dangerous things
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://journal.sjdm.org/jdm06016.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw0tYzL2DHnCo-l6y2Pb79mR
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hbr.org/2013/02/do-women-take-as-many-risks-as&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFgg4MAI&usg=AOvVaw2YIPVRmG_ce4xR_WCjLXNY

We can extrapolate that data not only to the physical activities men engage in, but the types of videogames they play.

Many of the adventure action horror games are stress inducing.

Women don't like to be stressed
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886904000200&ved=0ahUKEwjQ4oXW_P3WAhUk0IMKHW_sDKoQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw3UQsRxkHRtbC_wzRpmEzb2

The mind does not distinguish fiction from reality. So in game stress is not separate from real life stress.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/&ved=0ahUKEwjRuu-S_f3WAhUH5IMKHSESDgEQFggpMAA&usg=AOvVaw0UxjXgTzwoYWmJXRFcp9tL

The games that women dominate are Facebook games. Shit you play while you're killing time at work. The second largest group of females play mmorpgs which have customizable characters.

This article mentions over watch as being popular among females because of female characters. The female characters are super op.
https://kotaku.com/study-shows-which-video-game-genres-women-play-most-1791435415

Action, survival horror, fps, adventure are games few females play. It's not because of a lack of female protagonists. Resident evil is a popular series in survival horror, not many female players. Same with tomb raider.

It's not lack of female protagonist like you want it to be, it's a lack of interest. Men and women are interested in different things, even different types of video games

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

Here's this hoe's whole problem

You seem to think that There's zero difference between male and female outside anatomical.

Men are more prone to do dangerous things
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://journal.sjdm.org/jdm06016.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw0tYzL2DHnCo-l6y2Pb79mR
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hbr.org/2013/02/do-women-take-as-many-risks-as&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFgg4MAI&usg=AOvVaw2YIPVRmG_ce4xR_WCjLXNY

We can extrapolate that data not only to the physical activities men engage in, but the types of videogames they play.

Many of the adventure action horror games are stress inducing.

Women don't like to be stressed
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886904000200&ved=0ahUKEwjQ4oXW_P3WAhUk0IMKHW_sDKoQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw3UQsRxkHRtbC_wzRpmEzb2

The mind does not distinguish fiction from reality. So in game stress is not separate from real life stress.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/&ved=0ahUKEwjRuu-S_f3WAhUH5IMKHSESDgEQFggpMAA&usg=AOvVaw0UxjXgTzwoYWmJXRFcp9tL

The games that women dominate are Facebook games. Shit you play while you're killing time at work. The second largest group of females play mmorpgs which have customizable characters.

This article mentions over watch as being popular among females because of female characters. The female characters are super op.
https://kotaku.com/study-shows-which-video-game-genres-women-play-most-1791435415

Action, survival horror, fps, adventure are games few females play. It's not because of a lack of female protagonists. Resident evil is a popular series in survival horror, not many female players. Same with tomb raider.

It's not lack of female protagonist like you want it to be, it's a lack of interest. Men and women are interested in different things, even different types of video games

never said or suggested there are no differences beyond the physical between men and women...only that the differences are exaggerated

men being more risk takers or women not liking stress is not a good explanation for the fact that rarely are women one of the major playable characters ...

i understand that players want to see themselves when they play these games and such, but i'd argue there has been a gross underestimation of the imaginations of most of the player base and their willingness to play as anything other than white men.... tomb rider was a huge seller

that said, why continue to ignore the growing female market that they've already secured????

when it comes to console and PC games, women still make up around a third of users
https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Uly...e_Market_Overview_Console_vs_PC_vs_Mobile.php



As detailed in an editorial earlier this week, Kuchera contacted Geoffrey Zatkin, Chief Operating Officer of EEDAR, essentially the market research firm for the gaming industry. They looked at a sample of 669 action games, shooters, and RPGs, all taken from the seventh-generation console cycle (that’s Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii — in other words, everything in the last seven years). Less than 300 games in their sample had the option of a female lead. As for female only leads…a whopping 24.
https://www.themarysue.com/why-game...ont-sell-and-what-it-says-about-the-industry/

that said, as i've argued, doing things to diversify the industry and more games designed with females in mind would attract more female gamers regardless of genre

a few passages from the article you posted support my thesis



Yee adds: that games with few female players often don’t offer female protagonists or involve playing online with strangers. “Low female gamer participation in certain genres may be a historical artifact of how motivations and presentation have been bundled together and marketed,” he said.

It may be the case that many more women would enjoy first-person shooters or sports games if they were designed with women in mind. Just think about how many women love Overwatch, which boasts a high female/male playable character ratio, or Splatoon, a third-person shooter with customizable characters and unique gameplay.

ppl like to argue games designed with females in mind and or female protagonists don't sell but ...

It was found that female-led games received roughly 40 percent of the marketing budget as male-led games.

why?



Reviews tend to almost as strong as male-only games. You can find games with female heroes, such as the Tomb Raider or Portal series, but there simply aren’t enough female-led games with strong marketing budgets to see if gamers are willing to pay attention to games that tell stories with women at the center
https://www.themarysue.com/why-game...ont-sell-and-what-it-says-about-the-industry/
https://www.cnet.com/news/the-risk-of-the-female-protagonist/

as i was saying there has been a gross underestimation of the imaginations of most of the player base and their willingness to play as anything other than white men....

and what is ur excuse for under representation of poc protagonist? and the fact the gaming industry is far from diverse? is that biological as well? a coincidence? lol

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

Lastly, stop hiding behind this beneficent mother facade. Fuck you and whatever kids under your care. You can shield them from whatever, that's your call. But that shield does not extend past your personal residence.

You are the same female who tried to say violent video games cause real world violence. Violent tv shows did the same thing. The same females responsible for the temperance movement that led to alcohol prohibition that actually lead to a rise in violent crimes.

You're the same females who shut down coffee houses in England because men spent too much time there.

Like seriously.

In short females are in general miserable creatures that are always trying to take things away from Men.

like i said its just not about the kids

its about how the content of these mediums a lot of times perpetuate racism and sexism and misogyny which has real world consequences for everyone

as you've already admitted ...the mind has a very hard time distinguishing fiction from reality.
http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/

and in addition...

Young male gamers who strongly identify with male characters in sexist, violent video games show less empathy than others toward female violence victims, a new study found.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160413151057.htm
http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/news/a45381/video-games-empathy-sexism/

Empathy in violent video-games can reduce or increase anti-social behavior
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-01/uol-eiv011415.php

so why am wrong for being concerned with video game content again? why am i the crazy buzzkill? lol

yet yall can go on and gon about the negative influence popular culture has had on young women and how it encourages the feminization of young men, but when the table turns yall duck and deflect

ridiculous... b

 

[LordZuko]

Here's this hoe's whole problem

You seem to think that There's zero difference between male and female outside anatomical.

Men are more prone to do dangerous things
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://journal.sjdm.org/jdm06016.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw0tYzL2DHnCo-l6y2Pb79mR
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hbr.org/2013/02/do-women-take-as-many-risks-as&ved=0ahUKEwjoycbt-v3WAhUJ0oMKHUvrBWQQFgg4MAI&usg=AOvVaw2YIPVRmG_ce4xR_WCjLXNY

We can extrapolate that data not only to the physical activities men engage in, but the types of videogames they play.

Many of the adventure action horror games are stress inducing.

Women don't like to be stressed
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886904000200&ved=0ahUKEwjQ4oXW_P3WAhUk0IMKHW_sDKoQFggrMAA&usg=AOvVaw3UQsRxkHRtbC_wzRpmEzb2

The mind does not distinguish fiction from reality. So in game stress is not separate from real life stress.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/&ved=0ahUKEwjRuu-S_f3WAhUH5IMKHSESDgEQFggpMAA&usg=AOvVaw0UxjXgTzwoYWmJXRFcp9tL

The games that women dominate are Facebook games. Shit you play while you're killing time at work. The second largest group of females play mmorpgs which have customizable characters.

This article mentions over watch as being popular among females because of female characters. The female characters are super op.
https://kotaku.com/study-shows-which-video-game-genres-women-play-most-1791435415

Action, survival horror, fps, adventure are games few females play. It's not because of a lack of female protagonists. Resident evil is a popular series in survival horror, not many female players. Same with tomb raider.

It's not lack of female protagonist like you want it to be, it's a lack of interest. Men and women are interested in different things, even different types of video games

never said or suggested there are no differences beyond the physical between men and women...only that the differences are exaggerated

men being more risk takers or women not liking stress is not a good explanation for the fact that rarely are women one of the major playable characters ...

i understand that players want to see themselves when they play these games and such, but i'd argue there has been a gross underestimation of the imaginations of most of the player base and their willingness to play as anything other than white men.... tomb rider was a huge seller

that said, why continue to ignore the growing female market that they've already secured????

when it comes to console and PC games, women still make up around a third of users
https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Uly...e_Market_Overview_Console_vs_PC_vs_Mobile.php



As detailed in an editorial earlier this week, Kuchera contacted Geoffrey Zatkin, Chief Operating Officer of EEDAR, essentially the market research firm for the gaming industry. They looked at a sample of 669 action games, shooters, and RPGs, all taken from the seventh-generation console cycle (that’s Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii — in other words, everything in the last seven years). Less than 300 games in their sample had the option of a female lead. As for female only leads…a whopping 24.
https://www.themarysue.com/why-game...ont-sell-and-what-it-says-about-the-industry/

that said, as i've argued, doing things to diversify the industry and more games designed with females in mind would attract more female gamers regardless of genre

a few passages from the article you posted support my thesis



Yee adds: that games with few female players often don’t offer female protagonists or involve playing online with strangers. “Low female gamer participation in certain genres may be a historical artifact of how motivations and presentation have been bundled together and marketed,” he said.

It may be the case that many more women would enjoy first-person shooters or sports games if they were designed with women in mind. Just think about how many women love Overwatch, which boasts a high female/male playable character ratio, or Splatoon, a third-person shooter with customizable characters and unique gameplay.

ppl like to argue games designed with females in mind and or female protagonists don't sell but ...

It was found that female-led games received roughly 40 percent of the marketing budget as male-led games.

why?



Reviews tend to almost as strong as male-only games. You can find games with female heroes, such as the Tomb Raider or Portal series, but there simply aren’t enough female-led games with strong marketing budgets to see if gamers are willing to pay attention to games that tell stories with women at the center
https://www.themarysue.com/why-game...ont-sell-and-what-it-says-about-the-industry/
https://www.cnet.com/news/the-risk-of-the-female-protagonist/

as i was saying there has been a gross underestimation of the imaginations of most of the player base and their willingness to play as anything other than white men....

and what is ur excuse for under representation of poc protagonist? and the fact the gaming industry is far from diverse? is that biological as well? a coincidence? lol

Females love overwatch because the female characters are overpowered relative to the other characters in the game. It's easier to win. It's like choosing Eddie Gordo in tekken. It's not a reflection of skill but simply offers the reward for outcome.

Now i see your other problem.

You want Men to do the heavy lifting for women.

Now we've already discussed and agreed that there are no obstacles for women getting into any industry. In fact women are being encouraged pushed into stem fields.

There is also no obstacle for women developers designing the very female led video games that you want to see in the industry. Coding is way more accessible and people can even create free Games on the internet to create buzz.

However you want Men to design the games, market the games publish the games on behalf of women so that y'all can feel included and empowered. You are afraid to take the risk. You want Men to do all this shit so you can sit back and say "yay me!"

It don't work like that.

If you don't like that there aren't enough women in games in whatever role, your issue is with women. Not the Men who aren't holding them back.

 

[LordZuko]

Lastly, stop hiding behind this beneficent mother facade. Fuck you and whatever kids under your care. You can shield them from whatever, that's your call. But that shield does not extend past your personal residence.

You are the same female who tried to say violent video games cause real world violence. Violent tv shows did the same thing. The same females responsible for the temperance movement that led to alcohol prohibition that actually lead to a rise in violent crimes.

You're the same females who shut down coffee houses in England because men spent too much time there.

Like seriously.

In short females are in general miserable creatures that are always trying to take things away from Men.

like i said its just not about the kids

its about how the content of these mediums a lot of times perpetuate racism and sexism and misogyny which has real world consequences for everyone

as you've already admitted ...the mind has a very hard time distinguishing fiction from reality.
http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/

and in addition...

Young male gamers who strongly identify with male characters in sexist, violent video games show less empathy than others toward female violence victims, a new study found.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160413151057.htm
http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/news/a45381/video-games-empathy-sexism/

Empathy in violent video-games can reduce or increase anti-social behavior
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-01/uol-eiv011415.php

so why am wrong for being concerned with video game content again? why am i the crazy buzzkill? lol

yet yall can go on and gon about the negative influence popular culture has had on young women and how it encourages the feminization of young men, but when the table turns yall duck and deflect

ridiculous... b

Your two links cited the same study. The study had a sample size of 154males

So a ridiculously small sample makes a wild claim.

Ridiculous. Truly.

Outside the small sample size there is no indicator for measuring sympathy, it's self reported. So there is not a before or after comparison, neither is there a control.

This study is shit. Utter shit. It's not even a study it's propaganda. I'm positive that If i were to investigate the researcher and the dept I'd find some interesting information.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...n-games-does-not-cause-real-life-violence?amp

You're literally reiterating the same arguments from 20 years ago long debunked.

 

[LordZuko]

That's it. You're done. You have no new information outside of debunked claims
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...deo-games-and-youth-violence-9851613.html?amp
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/violent-video-games-not-cause-9995091.amp

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

Lastly, stop hiding behind this beneficent mother facade. Fuck you and whatever kids under your care. You can shield them from whatever, that's your call. But that shield does not extend past your personal residence.

You are the same female who tried to say violent video games cause real world violence. Violent tv shows did the same thing. The same females responsible for the temperance movement that led to alcohol prohibition that actually lead to a rise in violent crimes.

You're the same females who shut down coffee houses in England because men spent too much time there.

Like seriously.

In short females are in general miserable creatures that are always trying to take things away from Men.

like i said its just not about the kids

its about how the content of these mediums a lot of times perpetuate racism and sexism and misogyny which has real world consequences for everyone

as you've already admitted ...the mind has a very hard time distinguishing fiction from reality.
http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/

and in addition...

Young male gamers who strongly identify with male characters in sexist, violent video games show less empathy than others toward female violence victims, a new study found.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160413151057.htm
http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/news/a45381/video-games-empathy-sexism/

Empathy in violent video-games can reduce or increase anti-social behavior
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-01/uol-eiv011415.php

so why am wrong for being concerned with video game content again? why am i the crazy buzzkill? lol

yet yall can go on and gon about the negative influence popular culture has had on young women and how it encourages the feminization of young men, but when the table turns yall duck and deflect

ridiculous... b

Your two links cited the same study. The study had a sample size of 154males

So a ridiculously small sample makes a wild claim.

Ridiculous. Truly.

Outside the small sample size there is no indicator for measuring sympathy, it's self reported. So there is not a before or after comparison, neither is there a control.

This study is shit. Utter shit. It's not even a study it's propaganda. I'm positive that If i were to investigate the researcher and the dept I'd find some interesting information.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...n-games-does-not-cause-real-life-violence?amp

You're literally reiterating the same arguments from 20 years ago long debunked.

lol

Debunked? Far from it

None of the studies i posted do not state that games ALONE lead to real word violence or sexism and or video games ALONE had long term impact on empathy....and i never suggested as such

Just like how video games don't "cause" violence, crime, or underachievement, video games do not "cause" sexism because people aren't machines where one input is deterministically linked to one output. There are other factors to weigh in

My concern is how video game content in the short or long term can reinforce negative attitudes and perpetuate sexism (and white supremacy) prevalent within our society, popular american culture ...as i have stated multiple times

So how does games reinforce sexism? By media priming. By subjecting the player to imagery that reinforces our subconsciously held socially ingrained ideas about men, women and sex. Ideas about women (and poc) that are reinforced by the media constantly. This shouldn't even be controversial, considering how much research exists on media priming, sexism, and how it affects us. When media constantly reinforces something and no one feels like fact checking, they can come to accept falsities

Here's a study, for example, speak on the power of television one of society's most powerful medium. Research indicates that television portrayals can negatively influence people’s attitudes toward one another.
http://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1002&context=communication_theses

Here's a study that examined on-screen representations of female characters in the top 100 grossing films every year. In addition to revealing some pretty dismal numbers when it comes to women in film and television, such as chronic underrepresentation, the prevalence of gender stereotypes and behind-the-scenes opportunities, the study also reported on the lack of ethnic diversity among the same media.
http://womenintvfilm.sdsu.edu/files/2014_Its_a_Mans_World_Report.pdf

And what has also been founded is that a person who is already poorly-adjusted or lacking in other forms of social influence, video games same as any other medium can reinforce sexism. And violent games may increase the likelihood of aggression in players who have learned aggressive responses in the past and/or who hold aggressive schema

Here's another study

Yao, Mahoo & Linz (2010) "Sexual Priming, Gender Stereotyping, and Likelihood to Sexually Harass: Examining the Cognitive Effects of Playing a Sexually-Explicit Video Game", and, more recently, Stermer & Birkley (2015) "SeX-Box: Exposure to sexist video games predicts benevolent sexism" which found that sexist attitudes are reinforced by sexism in video games. As a meta analysis, Dill, Brown & Collins' (2008), "Effects of exposure to sex-stereotyped video game characters on tolerance of sexual harassment" found a correlation between video games and a greater tolerance towards harassment and acceptance of rape myths.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-009-9695-4

And more

In a 2008 survey on the gaming habits of about 2,500 young people, Gentile and his father, psychologist J. Ronald Gentile, found that children and adolescents who played more violent games were likelier to report “aggressive cognitions and behaviors.” They concluded that violent video games “appear to be exemplary teachers of aggression.” They also found that eighth and ninth graders who played violent games more frequently displayed greater “hostile attribution bias” (being vigilant for enemies) and got into more arguments with teachers.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-video-games-inspire-violent-behavior/
http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1451&context=honors

The most we find is a body of work that includes indeterminate conclusions. Otherwise there isn't a body of work which concludes that video games don't "reinforce sexism" and it's not because academia hates you or wants to ruin your fun

 

[VulcanRaven]

LOL she keeps posting these useless surveys. These are the same tactics that racists use to slam black people ironically. FYI sexism was around long before video games existed. So was violence.

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

Females love overwatch because the female characters are overpowered relative to the other characters in the game. It's easier to win. It's like choosing Eddie Gordo in tekken. It's not a reflection of skill but simply offers the reward for outcome.

Now i see your other problem.

You want Men to do the heavy lifting for women.

Now we've already discussed and agreed that there are no obstacles for women getting into any industry. In fact women are being encouraged pushed into stem fields.

There is also no obstacle for women developers designing the very female led video games that you want to see in the industry. Coding is way more accessible and people can even create free Games on the internet to create buzz.

However you want Men to design the games, market the games publish the games on behalf of women so that y'all can feel included and empowered. You are afraid to take the risk. You want Men to do all this shit so you can sit back and say "yay me!"

It don't work like that.

If you don't like that there aren't enough women in games in whatever role, your issue is with women. Not the Men who aren't holding them back.

This is not about putting the onus on all men...and sexism and racism can be perpetuated and reinforced by anyone

This is a critique of the comic and video game industry ....society as a whole really. And same as the majority has no inherent “right” to get more options than anyone else, minorities have the right to voice their grievances. The industry has the right to choose to adjust or not

As far as the gaming and tech industry being welcoming atmosphere for women and poc

One in 10 women in tech experience unwanted sexual attention, and nearly one in four people of color face stereotyping, according to the Kapor Center for Social Impact and Harris Poll, which surveyed more than 2,000 people who left tech jobs in the last three years.
http://www.kaporcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/KAPOR_Tech-Leavers-Final.pdf

And when players actually ask for female playable characters you get excuses like "female character models are too expensive to animate"

Women and poc developers, artists, writers, etc are making moves but right now they need support...and many are not being hired

And this idea that women are being pushed into the STEM field is not supported by much substantial evidence

At early ages, girls often outperform boys in math and science classes. Later, something changes. By the time they get into high school, girls are less likely than boys to take difficult math courses and less likely, again, to go into careers in science, technology, engineering or medicine

Why?

Same as we have evidence blk children are treated differently by teachers than their non blk counterparts, there is growing evidence that suggest teachers have low expectations of girls when it comes to math and the sciences which is obviously problematic. One study show classroom teachers giving the girls lower grades in math than the external teachers, and they give the boys higher grades



A teachers’ biased behavior at early stage of schooling can have long run implications for occupational choices and earnings at adulthood, because enrollment in advanced courses in math and science in high school is a prerequisite for post-secondary schooling in engineering, computer science and so on.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w20909
http://www.sciencecodex.com/gender_...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So as I was saying there is evidence there is very real barriers that exist for women and poc of entering into these industries, particularly the gaming industry

Capital is less a problem now that mobile gaming and devices are getting cheaper and there are more opportunities for smaller firms and individual for getting into the market

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

LOL she keeps posting these useless surveys. These are the same tactics that racists use to slam black people ironically. FYI sexism was around long before video games existed. So was violence.

lol

whatever fox news ...diversity is bad...liberals and feminist are fascists....give me the right to be sexist....you are playing the race card...etc...etc

Why cant i peacefully be able to deny a blk person seat or deny a lady job at my deli..

Fuck outta here

and surveys are useless since when? since i posted em. But yes when niggas regurgitate numbers without any context to draw sweeping conclusions that can be problematic. Thats not what I've done

racism, sexism and violence have been around for a long time so does that mean we shouldn't do shit to combat and curbs these things???

smh

ok i'm done

 

[deadeye]

@Cain

Is @Madame_CJSkywalker your boy's wife?

The one he referred to as........"Ms. No Fun"...............or some shit?

 

[LordZuko]

Lastly, stop hiding behind this beneficent mother facade. Fuck you and whatever kids under your care. You can shield them from whatever, that's your call. But that shield does not extend past your personal residence.

You are the same female who tried to say violent video games cause real world violence. Violent tv shows did the same thing. The same females responsible for the temperance movement that led to alcohol prohibition that actually lead to a rise in violent crimes.

You're the same females who shut down coffee houses in England because men spent too much time there.

Like seriously.

In short females are in general miserable creatures that are always trying to take things away from Men.

as you've already admitted ...the mind has a very hard time distinguishing fiction from reality.
http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/

and in addition...

Young male gamers who strongly identify with male characters in sexist, violent video games show less empathy than others toward female violence victims, a new study found.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160413151057.htm
http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/news/a45381/video-games-empathy-sexism/

Empathy in violent video-games can reduce or increase anti-social behavior
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-01/uol-eiv011415.php

ridiculous... b

Your two links cited the same study. The study had a sample size of 154males
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...n-games-does-not-cause-real-life-violence?amp

lol

Debunked? Far from it

None of the studies i posted do not state that games ALONE lead to real word violence or sexism and or video games ALONE had long term impact on empathy....and i never suggested as such

Just like how video games don't "cause" violence, crime, or underachievement, video games do not "cause" sexism because people aren't machines where one input is deterministically linked to one output. There are other factors to weigh in

My concern is how video game content in the short or long term can reinforce negative attitudes and perpetuate sexism (and white supremacy) prevalent within our society, popular american culture ...as i have stated multiple times

So how does games reinforce sexism? By media priming. By subjecting the player to imagery that reinforces our subconsciously held socially ingrained ideas about men, women and sex. Ideas about women (and poc) that are reinforced by the media constantly. This shouldn't even be controversial, considering how much research exists on media priming, sexism, and how it affects us. When media constantly reinforces something and no one feels like fact checking, they can come to accept falsities

Here's a study, for example, speak on the power of television one of society's most powerful medium. Research indicates that television portrayals can negatively influence people’s attitudes toward one another.
http://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1002&context=communication_theses

Here's a study that examined on-screen representations of female characters in the top 100 grossing films every year. In addition to revealing some pretty dismal numbers when it comes to women in film and television, such as chronic underrepresentation, the prevalence of gender stereotypes and behind-the-scenes opportunities, the study also reported on the lack of ethnic diversity among the same media.
http://womenintvfilm.sdsu.edu/files/2014_Its_a_Mans_World_Report.pdf

And what has also been founded is that a person who is already poorly-adjusted or lacking in other forms of social influence, video games same as any other medium can reinforce sexism. And violent games may increase the likelihood of aggression in players who have learned aggressive responses in the past and/or who hold aggressive schema

Here's another study

Yao, Mahoo & Linz (2010) "Sexual Priming, Gender Stereotyping, and Likelihood to Sexually Harass: Examining the Cognitive Effects of Playing a Sexually-Explicit Video Game", and, more recently, Stermer & Birkley (2015) "SeX-Box: Exposure to sexist video games predicts benevolent sexism" which found that sexist attitudes are reinforced by sexism in video games. As a meta analysis, Dill, Brown & Collins' (2008), "Effects of exposure to sex-stereotyped video game characters on tolerance of sexual harassment" found a correlation between video games and a greater tolerance towards harassment and acceptance of rape myths.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-009-9695-4

And more

In a 2008 survey on the gaming habits of about 2,500 young people, Gentile and his father, psychologist J. Ronald Gentile, found that children and adolescents who played more violent games were likelier to report “aggressive cognitions and behaviors.” They concluded that violent video games “appear to be exemplary teachers of aggression.” They also found that eighth and ninth graders who played violent games more frequently displayed greater “hostile attribution bias” (being vigilant for enemies) and got into more arguments with teachers.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-video-games-inspire-violent-behavior/
http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1451&context=honors

The most we find is a body of work that includes indeterminate conclusions. Otherwise there isn't a body of work which concludes that video games don't "reinforce sexism" and it's not because academia hates you or wants to ruin your fun

First of all, your last little sentence discounts everything you said before. I was going to read the studies until you told me "results inconclusive" but then you said it doesn't disprove the hypothesis. You don't prove a negative, that's nigh improbable to do. Something either is or isn't. There either is a causal link or some level of correlation. You Damn near implied a 1:1 correlation with video game violence and every ism on the planet.

Your very first paragraph denying what you set out to imply also makes you look foolish. If video games aren't a direct cause or have a strong correlation but now you believe that they are one of how many different factors that go into someone stealing a car let alone going about raping and pillaging. What is it 1 other factor, 2, 3? How about ten? Fuck it lets say 1000 because you don't know.

Your whole premise is that video games might be could be putting dangerous thoughts in boys heads girls so let's shoehorn girls into all these different areas to regulate how men express themselves concerning women.

This is another reason why you won't just leave men to their own devices and create your own shit. You want to control what men think and freely express because you've drawn this correlation between what men openly say and actual misogyny. Even tho that's never been proven, but what does actually stoke ill thoughts towards females from Men are the constant displays of emotional manipulation entitlement coupled with this perpetual victimhood.

That's the root cause of everything you think you mean. You believe your safety and security should preempt free expression.

I'm not discussing television because you keep moving the goal posts. First it was comic books then you went into video games. I'm not going down no rabbit hole with you.

 

[VulcanRaven]

LOL she keeps posting these useless surveys. These are the same tactics that racists use to slam black people ironically. FYI sexism was around long before video games existed. So was violence.

lol

whatever fox news ...diversity is bad...liberals and feminist are fascists....give me the right to be sexist....you are playing the race card...etc...etc

Why cant i peacefully be able to deny a blk person seat or deny a lady job at my deli..

Fuck outta here

and surveys are useless since when? since i posted em. But yes when niggas regurgitate numbers without any context to draw sweeping conclusions that can be problematic. Thats not what I've done

racism, sexism and violence have been around for a long time so does that mean we shouldn't do shit to combat and curbs these things???

smh

ok i'm done

You have been proven wrong already and all you do is make generalizations. I since bullshit in you young Skywalker