That's more like it, Trump

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janklow;8760275 said:
kingblaze84;8757928 said:
Don't worry about trying to convince me Bush is better, convince the Trump fans here in this thread and in the Republican Party of that. I already said I wouldn't vote for either.
"if you still don't understand why Bush is better than Trump..."

kingblaze84;8757928 said:
Trump has several crazy ideas, sure. But Jeb Bush is psycho and definitely looney himself.
do you have a single argument to this effect that is NOT "third term of GW?" because that's literally the entire range i have seen you run with

I still remember the horrors of the GWB era, and his CATASTROPHIC foreign policy. Jeb Bush already has signed up some old Bush administrators onto his campaign and has said GWB will have sway over his administration if elected.

That's enough for me to hope Jeb Bush either gets run over by a car or lose the remaining primary states. Yes, I dislike Jeb Bush that much. Trump is far from perfect but at least he was against the war in Iraq after it started. Even before it started, he said he didn't think it was a good idea, that makes him better then Jeb Bush in my eyes.
 
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Stiff;8760467 said:
zzombie;8755716 said:
kingblaze84;8755251 said:
zzombie;8754357 said:
IceBergTaylor;8754116 said:
zzombie;8753923 said:
i expected him to win in N.H but i still don't think he will get the nomination

Shit is inevitable at this point

unless trump can capture Evangelicals he's not going to win the nomination of the republican party.

Trump is polling very well with evangelicals now, he has a good chance to win that vote. They came out for him in New Hampshire, so he can build on that support.

But he lost Iowa because he didn't get the evangelical vote and N.H like most the new England states has less evangelical influence. So him winning it makes more sense. Will he do that everywhere else??? I doubt it

The republican who wins Iowa caucus almost never gets the nomination because the evangelicals in Iowa don't have that much sway and don't really reflect the party nationally

Yep, evangelicals don't have the influence they used to have. Republicans use them for votes and thankfully, ignore much of their concerns afterwards.
 
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Jamaican Curry Bwoy;8760453 said:
kingblaze84;8757941 said:
@"Jamaican Curry Bwoy"

Why Trump over Jeb Bush? Lol......just curious.

Trump isn't your regular politician. People are tired of the same ole same ole on both sides of aisle. Thats why Sanders is gaining moment aswell. And besides Trump has done such a great job of making Jeb Bush look like a pussy. I mean he makes Je bush look like a man who gets empowered from watching lifetime movies. Lmao


Lol at that video, but yeah Trump has successfully made Jeb Bush look impotent and look like a little bitch. Low energy as Trump calls it. People are tired of politics as usual and for better or for worse, Sanders and Trump have the best energy on their side now. Sanders vs Trump will be a hell of a match up. I personally think if Trump goes against Hilary, he would clobber her, based on how Libya has gone and Hilary voting for the stupid war in in Iraq. Bernie stands a better chance against Trump because he also had the wisdom to be against the war in Iraq as well. It's gonna be entertaining to watch.
 
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@janklow

curious to know who you support? You always came off as if you lean conservative because of your staunch gun right support (even though truth be told I don't support tighter gun regulation either and I'm not really too conservative myself)
 
kingblaze84;8760974 said:
I still remember the horrors of the GWB era, and his CATASTROPHIC foreign policy. Jeb Bush already has signed up some old Bush administrators onto his campaign and has said GWB will have sway over his administration if elected.
again... do you have a single argument to this effect that is NOT "third term of GW?"

kingblaze84;8760974 said:
Trump is far from perfect but at least he was against the war in Iraq after it started. Even before it started, he said he didn't think it was a good idea-
citation possibly needed as Trump is a notorious lie-teller on most all issues.

also, let's be clear: this is not an argument that you should vote for Jeb Bush; this is an argument that Trump is a fundamentally less-legitimate choice.
 
Stiff;8761109 said:
@janklow curious to know who you support?
in 2012 i voted for Gary Johnson and if the election comes down to a couple of unpalatable choices (let's say Trump versus Clinton), i would likely do the same.

early in the primary season i would have been more for Jim Webb on the D side and Rand Paul on the R side, but you see where things are now. the Democrats have enshrined gun control in their platform and Clinton/O'Malley have done their damnedest to drag Sanders left on guns, so that sucks. the Republicans throw a lot of red meat to their base and i am not a social conservative, so THAT sucks.

in life i generally want BOTH parties to run the most palatable candidates, so i would like to see Kasich/Rubio versus Sanders. i have issues with all of these candidates so it is what it is.

Stiff;8761109 said:
You always came off as if you lean conservative because of your staunch gun right support (even though truth be told I don't support tighter gun regulation either and I'm not really too conservative myself)
actually, i do know quite a few people who are Democrats/left-leaning independents/etc who are either pro-gun rights or simply don't care, but they vote Dem or whatever because of other issues. which is what it is; we all have different priorities. so i get that.

gun rights is definitely the thing i care about; i'm from a deep-blue state where the legislature beats on gun owners for political gain (as always, fuck you, O'Malley) and my personal reps could often give a fuck less about me, so i don't vote for Democrats here. but if someone's not bitching about guns then i probably get a lot less salty immediately.
 
janklow;8765133 said:
kingblaze84;8760974 said:
I still remember the horrors of the GWB era, and his CATASTROPHIC foreign policy. Jeb Bush already has signed up some old Bush administrators onto his campaign and has said GWB will have sway over his administration if elected.
again... do you have a single argument to this effect that is NOT "third term of GW?"

kingblaze84;8760974 said:
Trump is far from perfect but at least he was against the war in Iraq after it started. Even before it started, he said he didn't think it was a good idea-
citation possibly needed as Trump is a notorious lie-teller on most all issues.

also, let's be clear: this is not an argument that you should vote for Jeb Bush; this is an argument that Trump is a fundamentally less-legitimate choice.

Well Jeb Bush giving high praise to GWB is enough to frighten me and apparently, enough to scare many others as well. Especially independents like myself. George W didn't have a clue then and he doesn't have a clue now, so Jeb Bush praising his brother is scary as fuck.

As far as Trump being against the war in Iraq, he said after the war started that it was a terrible mistake and even went as far to say George W Bush should have been impeached (something I also agree with). I admit he didn't say this before the war, but he was never a cheerleader for the war either, unlike Jeb.

I also agree Trump for me is not a legit choice, but in COMPARISON to Jeb Bush and even Ted Cruz, Trump is much better. At least Trump respects Planned Parenthood, something Ted Cruz does not respect, which is shameful.

 
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Every candidate sucks. Would vote Republican just so I could deploy and get some more of them sweet benefits but honestly can't bring myself to do that. Refuse to support Burnie and Hillary is literally the textook lie in your face candidate say whatever is needed to get the vote.
 
The_Jackal;8766414 said:
Every candidate sucks. Would vote Republican just so I could deploy and get some more of them sweet benefits but honestly can't bring myself to do that. Refuse to support Burnie and Hillary is literally the textook lie in your face candidate say whatever is needed to get the vote.

Yeah it sucks all the candidates this year have so many flaws. Most likely, I'll be voting 3rd party again. I respect a lot of what Bernie says but I don't think Republicans or Democrats will allow him to gain much of what he wants. His plans are too expensive and with 19 trillion in debt, I'm not sure if America can realistically do a lot of what Bernie wants.

I've already ruled out Hilary, her plan of a no-fly zone over Syria could bring on a world war. Her judgment sucks, though I do like some of her domestic policies.
 
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kingblaze84;8766205 said:
Well Jeb Bush giving high praise to GWB is enough to frighten me and apparently, enough to scare many others as well. Especially independents like myself. George W didn't have a clue then and he doesn't have a clue now, so Jeb Bush praising his brother is scary as fuck.
lovely. however, here is the question i am asking you: "do you have a single argument to this effect that is NOT "third term of GW?""

kingblaze84;8766205 said:
As far as Trump being against the war in Iraq, he said after the war started that it was a terrible mistake and even went as far to say George W Bush should have been impeached (something I also agree with). I admit he didn't say this before the war, but he was never a cheerleader for the war either, unlike Jeb.
he's already halfway walked back that impeachment remark, because the thing is, Trump isn't making reasoned commentary on the Iraq War, he's saying shit to rile up Jeb. it's FUNNY, but it's fundamentally just shit-talking.

also, let's note this contradiction:

Trump said on the debate stage:

Who are we fighting for? What are we doing? We have to rebuild our country. But we have to — I’m the only one on this stage that said, “Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq.” Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn’t a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, “You’ll destabilize the Middle East.” That’s exactly what happened.

Given Trump’s phrasing, any such warning would have had to precede the March 19, 2003, invasion. Yet numerous fact–checkers have strained to find the supporting citations, with no luck whatsoever. Sure, Trump evaluated the war as a “mess” several days after its start; that qualifies as punditry, not visionary leadership.

On NBC News’s “Meet the Press” this morning, moderator Chuck Todd was lying in wait. A talking-point machine, Trump held forth in self-praise, “I’m the only one on the stage that said we should not go into Iraq. That the war in Iraq is a mistake. Everyone else said, ‘Oh, they’re all–‘ you know, all of the other people on the stage, I should get points for vision,” he said.

Oh, no you shouldn’t, said Todd, in effect. “Well, let me, but actually let me pause you there,” said the moderator. After more bluster from Trump, Todd put it to him, saying that PolitiFact — indeed, “none of us” — has been able to dig up an instance in which Trump ripped the invasion before the invasion.

The risible response from Trump came, as always, with flair:

Well, I did it in 2003, I said it before that. Don’t forget, I wasn’t a politician. So people didn’t write everything I said. I was a businessperson. I was, as they say, world-class businessperson. I built a great company, I employed thousands of people. So I’m not a politician. But if you look at 2003, there are articles. If you look the 2004, there are articles.

In fact, I saw somebody commenting on it last night, that Trump really was against the war. I was against it. Look, I’m the most militaristic person. I’m going to build the military bigger, better, stronger, hopefully we’ll never have to use it, but nobody’s going to mess with us. But I will say this, the war in Iraq, it was a mistake. Anybody would have realized Iran and Iraq, they used to fight. They go back, forth. Chuck, you destabilize the Middle East. I’m the only one that called it. I was the only one that called it.

Bolding added to highlight a typical Donald Trump contradiction. Whereas last night he said that his pre-war opposition was “loud and strong,” he told Todd that “people didn’t write” what he said. Which would make it anything but “loud and strong.”

kingblaze84;8766205 said:
I also agree Trump for me is not a legit choice, but in COMPARISON to Jeb Bush and even Ted Cruz, Trump is much better. At least Trump respects Planned Parenthood, something Ted Cruz does not respect, which is shameful.

Bush and Cruz are more legitimate choices who have policy positions that make you not want to vote for them. again, this isn't the "why you owe Jeb! your vote" position. Trump is an unserious loudmouth whose position is basically "i'm an outsider and i will do everything the best!"
 
kingblaze84;8766455 said:
I respect a lot of what Bernie says but I don't think Republicans or Democrats will allow him to gain much of what he wants. His plans are too expensive and with 19 trillion in debt, I'm not sure if America can realistically do a lot of what Bernie wants.
the best part of this is listening to Clinton basically say "don't vote Bernie, because he can't get the Republicans to let him do anything, but vote for me because i can!"

...and that's based on what, exactly, Hillary?
 
janklow;8766781 said:
kingblaze84;8766205 said:
Well Jeb Bush giving high praise to GWB is enough to frighten me and apparently, enough to scare many others as well. Especially independents like myself. George W didn't have a clue then and he doesn't have a clue now, so Jeb Bush praising his brother is scary as fuck.
lovely. however, here is the question i am asking you: "do you have a single argument to this effect that is NOT "third term of GW?""

kingblaze84;8766205 said:
As far as Trump being against the war in Iraq, he said after the war started that it was a terrible mistake and even went as far to say George W Bush should have been impeached (something I also agree with). I admit he didn't say this before the war, but he was never a cheerleader for the war either, unlike Jeb.
he's already halfway walked back that impeachment remark, because the thing is, Trump isn't making reasoned commentary on the Iraq War, he's saying shit to rile up Jeb. it's FUNNY, but it's fundamentally just shit-talking.

also, let's note this contradiction:

Trump said on the debate stage:

Who are we fighting for? What are we doing? We have to rebuild our country. But we have to — I’m the only one on this stage that said, “Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq.” Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong. And I was in the private sector. I wasn’t a politician, fortunately. But I said it, and I said it loud and clear, “You’ll destabilize the Middle East.” That’s exactly what happened.

Given Trump’s phrasing, any such warning would have had to precede the March 19, 2003, invasion. Yet numerous fact–checkers have strained to find the supporting citations, with no luck whatsoever. Sure, Trump evaluated the war as a “mess” several days after its start; that qualifies as punditry, not visionary leadership.

On NBC News’s “Meet the Press” this morning, moderator Chuck Todd was lying in wait. A talking-point machine, Trump held forth in self-praise, “I’m the only one on the stage that said we should not go into Iraq. That the war in Iraq is a mistake. Everyone else said, ‘Oh, they’re all–‘ you know, all of the other people on the stage, I should get points for vision,” he said.

Oh, no you shouldn’t, said Todd, in effect. “Well, let me, but actually let me pause you there,” said the moderator. After more bluster from Trump, Todd put it to him, saying that PolitiFact — indeed, “none of us” — has been able to dig up an instance in which Trump ripped the invasion before the invasion.

The risible response from Trump came, as always, with flair:

Well, I did it in 2003, I said it before that. Don’t forget, I wasn’t a politician. So people didn’t write everything I said. I was a businessperson. I was, as they say, world-class businessperson. I built a great company, I employed thousands of people. So I’m not a politician. But if you look at 2003, there are articles. If you look the 2004, there are articles.

In fact, I saw somebody commenting on it last night, that Trump really was against the war. I was against it. Look, I’m the most militaristic person. I’m going to build the military bigger, better, stronger, hopefully we’ll never have to use it, but nobody’s going to mess with us. But I will say this, the war in Iraq, it was a mistake. Anybody would have realized Iran and Iraq, they used to fight. They go back, forth. Chuck, you destabilize the Middle East. I’m the only one that called it. I was the only one that called it.

Bolding added to highlight a typical Donald Trump contradiction. Whereas last night he said that his pre-war opposition was “loud and strong,” he told Todd that “people didn’t write” what he said. Which would make it anything but “loud and strong.”

kingblaze84;8766205 said:
I also agree Trump for me is not a legit choice, but in COMPARISON to Jeb Bush and even Ted Cruz, Trump is much better. At least Trump respects Planned Parenthood, something Ted Cruz does not respect, which is shameful.

Bush and Cruz are more legitimate choices who have policy positions that make you not want to vote for them. again, this isn't the "why you owe Jeb! your vote" position. Trump is an unserious loudmouth whose position is basically "i'm an outsider and i will do everything the best!"

I see what you're saying but I still give Trump a little credit for being against the Iraq War quickly after it started because there were still fools in the media who said the war was going well in 2004. Jeb! on the other hand, said as recently as last year that going to war was the right decision. Only when public outrage started building did he eventually "change" his mind. But being supportive of GWB policies, as I've said before, is more then enough for me to dislike Jeb and hope Trump and others clobber him some more.

Once again, I wouldn't vote for Trump but the policies of GWB disgust me and Jeb! attaching himself to those failed policies will disgust a ton of independents out there. I look forward to the day he drops out.
 
janklow;8766783 said:
kingblaze84;8766455 said:
I respect a lot of what Bernie says but I don't think Republicans or Democrats will allow him to gain much of what he wants. His plans are too expensive and with 19 trillion in debt, I'm not sure if America can realistically do a lot of what Bernie wants.
the best part of this is listening to Clinton basically say "don't vote Bernie, because he can't get the Republicans to let him do anything, but vote for me because i can!"

...and that's based on what, exactly, Hillary?

I wonder the same thing, it's not like she got Hillary Care to pass.
 
kingblaze84;8767338 said:
I see what you're saying but I still give Trump a little credit for being against the Iraq War quickly after it started because there were still fools in the media who said the war was going well in 2004.
you can give Trump credit for the position, but it would be much more to his credit if his claims about his opposition were more supported. conceding that the war was a mistake, it's great him to say he's always been loudly opposed to it, but he basically will say ANYTHING if he thinks it gets him a positive reaction from voters.

kingblaze84;8767338 said:
Jeb! on the other hand, said as recently as last year that going to war was the right decision. Only when public outrage started building did he eventually "change" his mind. But being supportive of GWB policies, as I've said before, is more then enough for me to dislike Jeb and hope Trump and others clobber him some more.
right... but we're not talking about why you should vote for Bush, as i have noted quite a few times. what i'm asking is if you have a single argument against Bush that is NOT "third term of GW?""

kingblaze84;8767338 said:
I look forward to the day he drops out.
he'll drop out only when one of the other establishment candidates starts getting the lion's share of the establishment votes. Rubio is winning the 538's "endorsement primary" right now, but Bush was long ahead on that score (not that it was doing much for him in popular elections, but you know what i'm saying here).
 
janklow;8767409 said:
kingblaze84;8767338 said:
I see what you're saying but I still give Trump a little credit for being against the Iraq War quickly after it started because there were still fools in the media who said the war was going well in 2004.
you can give Trump credit for the position, but it would be much more to his credit if his claims about his opposition were more supported. conceding that the war was a mistake, it's great him to say he's always been loudly opposed to it, but he basically will say ANYTHING if he thinks it gets him a positive reaction from voters.

kingblaze84;8767338 said:
Jeb! on the other hand, said as recently as last year that going to war was the right decision. Only when public outrage started building did he eventually "change" his mind. But being supportive of GWB policies, as I've said before, is more then enough for me to dislike Jeb and hope Trump and others clobber him some more.
right... but we're not talking about why you should vote for Bush, as i have noted quite a few times. what i'm asking is if you have a single argument against Bush that is NOT "third term of GW?""

kingblaze84;8767338 said:
I look forward to the day he drops out.
he'll drop out only when one of the other establishment candidates starts getting the lion's share of the establishment votes. Rubio is winning the 538's "endorsement primary" right now, but Bush was long ahead on that score (not that it was doing much for him in popular elections, but you know what i'm saying here).

I agree Trump will say almost anything if he thinks it will get a positive reaction, but to be fair, he several times has said things that are not really popular. Like banning all Muslims from entering the country for example, he got a lot of negative heat for saying that. But among Republicans, his idea is popular, so I do see your point. Thing is, most politicians will say anything to get elected too, Trump just takes it to the extreme.

And my argument against Bush stands as it is, he's too close to GWB. For me, and apparently many others, that's enough. I won't bother mentioning the rest of Jeb's ideas that sound terrible, including his idiotic idea of a no-fly zone in Syria and did I mention him being close to George W?
 
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kingblaze84;8770876 said:
I agree Trump will say almost anything if he thinks it will get a positive reaction, but to be fair, he several times has said things that are not really popular. Like banning all Muslims from entering the country for example, he got a lot of negative heat for saying that. But among Republicans, his idea is popular, so I do see your point. Thing is, most politicians will say anything to get elected too, Trump just takes it to the extreme.
well, i think it's also an issue where it needs to be popular enough to win a primary (30% seems to do it) because Trump isn't even thinking "oh, this won't really be a great thing to say when i'm running in a general election."

kingblaze84;8770876 said:
And my argument against Bush stands as it is, he's too close to GWB. For me, and apparently many others, that's enough. I won't bother mentioning the rest of Jeb's ideas that sound terrible, including his idiotic idea of a no-fly zone in Syria and did I mention him being close to George W?
not the point as i have repeatedly said it's not a question of convincing you to vote for Bush. it's a question of do you have a single argument against Bush that is NOT "third term of GW?"

 
janklow;8772858 said:
kingblaze84;8770876 said:
I agree Trump will say almost anything if he thinks it will get a positive reaction, but to be fair, he several times has said things that are not really popular. Like banning all Muslims from entering the country for example, he got a lot of negative heat for saying that. But among Republicans, his idea is popular, so I do see your point. Thing is, most politicians will say anything to get elected too, Trump just takes it to the extreme.
well, i think it's also an issue where it needs to be popular enough to win a primary (30% seems to do it) because Trump isn't even thinking "oh, this won't really be a great thing to say when i'm running in a general election."

kingblaze84;8770876 said:
And my argument against Bush stands as it is, he's too close to GWB. For me, and apparently many others, that's enough. I won't bother mentioning the rest of Jeb's ideas that sound terrible, including his idiotic idea of a no-fly zone in Syria and did I mention him being close to George W?
not the point as i have repeatedly said it's not a question of convincing you to vote for Bush. it's a question of do you have a single argument against Bush that is NOT "third term of GW?"

us-war-crimes-in-iraq.jpg


Iraq%2BVictims.jpg


Iraq_war_protest_poster.jpg

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images7/2006_war_photos_8/us_iraq_raid_kills_3_people.jpe

There's a reason Jeb Bush is polling dead last in South Carolina, his closeness to GW Bush is the ONLY argument I need.
 
kingblaze84;8774240 said:
There's a reason Jeb Bush is polling dead last in South Carolina, his closeness to GW Bush is the ONLY argument I need.
you think the Iraq War is why he's polling poorly?

but let me repeat myself since you are afraid to answer this question: i have repeatedly said it's not a question of convincing you to vote for Bush. do you have a single argument against Bush that is NOT "third term of GW?"
 

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