Teens film and laugh at drowning man instead of calling for help!

[Go figure]

Again what is your argument?

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

....so anyone who disagrees with u is contrararian eh? What political ideology would u attribute that to?

 

[(Nope)]

10-20. That's just a guess though. It could be more or it could be less.

The existence of worldstar doesn't mean that there is no contradiction in America's beliefs here, just so you know. Either we see ourselves as having a duty to help others, or we do not. By and large, America does not seem to think that duty exists, and from what my web search shows there are not many laws that say that it exists.

Bruh we're talkin about 14-16 yr olds. A highly impressionable age group.

2 hrs/

week watching the news vs 20 hrs playing/watching violence

What do u think has a greater effect on them in terms of desensitization?

That assumes that the news is the only outlet where these ideologies manifest

So then where else do u think your average 14-16 yr old learns about single payer health coverage and white supremacist organizations?

Is maybe social studies class making these kids apathetic as well?

I don't get how you don't understand the basic concept of duty. America, by and large, doesn't see helping others as something people are obligated to do; these kids did not have a duty to do shit. If the law says they do have a duty to risk their well being for other people, then we have that duty in other scenarios. In other scenarios we do not, so we do not have a duty here.

Im not arguing whether they have a duty or not. I dont think they do either. We never disagreed there. What they did was distasteful but not criminal.

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

Yes it does.

So if this had happened while obama was in office would u blame him?

American's were unapologetically individualistic during Obama's presidency. We are discussing broader social philosophical leanings, and the election of Trump is just a manifestation and confirmation of that.

These children are imitating behavior that has been modeled in various arenas and deemed desirable.

That doesn't absolve them of guilt. But they are a symptom, not the disease.

Until we come together en masse and decide that accountability includes the well-being of others, then there is nothing aberrant about their behavior.

So let me get this straight; Its Donald Trumps fault that that man drowned and the kids didn't call 911?

Nobody mentioned Donald Trump. It's the kind of selfish, uncaring, apathetic beliefs that exist on the right side of the political spectrum that coincide with and support the unwillingness to help that we see in this video.

Not sure exactly what their particular argument is about but nothing etherous here. The dude said the election of Trump is an example of the way some people have become... not that it's Trump's fault. If anything that's saying that people were already like that before Trump.

Yeah that doesn't fit his oppositional narrative tho.

 

[(Nope)]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Again, it is not either/or it can be both...

For instance, I've heard that some people walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[(Nope)]

Again what is your argument?

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

....so anyone who disagrees with u is contrararian eh? What political ideology would u attribute that to?

More absolutist bullshit.

But it's that way with you.

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Again, it is not either/or it can be both...

For instance, I've heard that some people walk and chew gum at the same time.

Right...which is why i said saying "i blame the political right" is ignorant bc theres much more that comes into play than that

Do u agree or disagree

 

[(Nope)]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Again, it is not either/or it can be both...

For instance, I've heard that some people walk and chew gum at the same time.

Right...which is why i said saying "i blame the political right" is ignorant bc theres much more that comes into play than that

Do u agree or disagree

That assertion can be correct without being all encompassing. IT IS NOT A YES OR NO QUESTION.

Are you denying that influence. Yes or no?

Or are you questioning the power attributed to that influence? Yes or no?

 

[(Nope)]

Also, I agree the power of that influence is considerable. It is what this country is built on.

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Again, it is not either/or it can be both...

For instance, I've heard that some people walk and chew gum at the same time.

Right...which is why i said saying "i blame the political right" is ignorant bc theres much more that comes into play than that

Do u agree or disagree

That assertion can be correct without being all encompassing. IT IS NOT A YES OR NO QUESTION.

Are you denying that influence. Yes or no?

Or are you questioning the power attributed to that influence? Yes or no?

No;no

If u check dudes first 2 posts...."i blame the political right"

Poster responds: theres a thing called accountability

Dudes second post: *obliterates accountability and pins it to white house*

In that case we should all say raising our children is futile unless we change the government bc they have a stronger influence than my house hold

I question whether yall have children, nieces or nephews close to u cuz it sounds like not

 

[LUClEN]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

It was a yes or no answer

had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

I would attribute it to a more leftist ideology, which is part and parcel of their character. Again, these things aren't separated into neat little divisions like some kind of Freudian model of the Mind.

So any time u see a rescue vid u think to yourself...hell yea for leftist ideology!!

Anytime I see collectivism and selflessness I associate it with the left.

Nah sounds more to me like taking all accountability away from the individual. When something bad happens, blame the guys u dont like not the ppl involved.

People and situations are more complex than "i blame [insert ideology here]"

I am absolutely thinking beyond the individual. I thought I made that clear. The individual is only responsible for so much. We are born into a world we do not choose and are exposed to ideas and values that we have no control over. These play such a big role in shaping how we think, which influences how we behave, that at a certain point we have to look beyond the individual when look at their behaviour and its causes.

Maybe they have shitty parents

Maybe they were shook and were masking it

Maybe they didnt think he would actually drown

Maybe they thiught someone else was callin 911

1. "shitty parents" are more often than not a product of poor family planning, which is a consequence of generational poverty, inadequate education, and other issues that have deep roots in systemic failings the right continues to make worse

2. I'm not sure they would have been so cavalier about this if they were truly afraid.

3. They implied that he was going to die.

4. This is possible.

I never said there is a causal relationship between the existence of individualism and a refusal to help people. What I am saying is that the existence and promotion of individualism, which has long preceded Trump, Bush, and even Reagan, is contradictory to the promotion of some kind of citizen's duty that we have to help people. If we want to send the message that people should be acting on these kinds of duties, then we need to terminate those ideologies, otherwise we are sending mixed messages. Any system of law that tries to uphold two views that directly contradict each other will inevitably fall into disrepute.

 

[5 Grand]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

It was a yes or no answer

had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

I would attribute it to a more leftist ideology, which is part and parcel of their character. Again, these things aren't separated into neat little divisions like some kind of Freudian model of the Mind.

So any time u see a rescue vid u think to yourself...hell yea for leftist ideology!!

Anytime I see collectivism and selflessness I associate it with the left.

Nah sounds more to me like taking all accountability away from the individual. When something bad happens, blame the guys u dont like not the ppl involved.

People and situations are more complex than "i blame [insert ideology here]"

I am absolutely thinking beyond the individual. I thought I made that clear. The individual is only responsible for so much. We are born into a world we do not choose and are exposed to ideas and values that we have no control over. These play such a big role in shaping how we think, which influences how we behave, that at a certain point we have to look beyond the individual when look at their behaviour and its causes.

Maybe they have shitty parents

Maybe they were shook and were masking it

Maybe they didnt think he would actually drown

Maybe they thiught someone else was callin 911

1. "shitty parents" are more often than not a product of poor family planning, which is a consequence of generational poverty, inadequate education, and other issues that have deep roots in systemic failings the right continues to make worse

2. I'm not sure they would have been so cavalier about this if they were truly afraid.

3. They implied that he was going to die.

4. This is possible.

I never said there is a causal relationship between the existence of individualism and a refusal to help people. What I am saying is that the existence and promotion of individualism, which has long preceded Trump, Bush, and even Reagan, is contradictory to the promotion of some kind of citizen's duty that we have to help people. If we want to send the message that people should be acting on these kinds of duties, then we need to terminate those ideologies, otherwise we are sending mixed messages. Any system of law that tries to uphold two views that directly contradict each other will inevitably fall into disrepute.

But the problem with that is if people feel like they should have helped, then they would jump in the water and drown trying to save the guy that was drowning because they're not trained lifeguards.

At the end of the day, they should have called 911.

 

[LUClEN]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

It was a yes or no answer

had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

I would attribute it to a more leftist ideology, which is part and parcel of their character. Again, these things aren't separated into neat little divisions like some kind of Freudian model of the Mind.

So any time u see a rescue vid u think to yourself...hell yea for leftist ideology!!

Anytime I see collectivism and selflessness I associate it with the left.

Nah sounds more to me like taking all accountability away from the individual. When something bad happens, blame the guys u dont like not the ppl involved.

People and situations are more complex than "i blame [insert ideology here]"

I am absolutely thinking beyond the individual. I thought I made that clear. The individual is only responsible for so much. We are born into a world we do not choose and are exposed to ideas and values that we have no control over. These play such a big role in shaping how we think, which influences how we behave, that at a certain point we have to look beyond the individual when look at their behaviour and its causes.

Maybe they have shitty parents

Maybe they were shook and were masking it

Maybe they didnt think he would actually drown

Maybe they thiught someone else was callin 911

1. "shitty parents" are more often than not a product of poor family planning, which is a consequence of generational poverty, inadequate education, and other issues that have deep roots in systemic failings the right continues to make worse

2. I'm not sure they would have been so cavalier about this if they were truly afraid.

3. They implied that he was going to die.

4. This is possible.

I never said there is a causal relationship between the existence of individualism and a refusal to help people. What I am saying is that the existence and promotion of individualism, which has long preceded Trump, Bush, and even Reagan, is contradictory to the promotion of some kind of citizen's duty that we have to help people. If we want to send the message that people should be acting on these kinds of duties, then we need to terminate those ideologies, otherwise we are sending mixed messages. Any system of law that tries to uphold two views that directly contradict each other will inevitably fall into disrepute.

But the problem with that is if people feel like they should have helped, then they would jump in the water and drown trying to save the guy that was drowning because they're not trained lifeguards.

At the end of the day, they should have called 911.

They SHOULD have done more, in a perfect world. They had no duty to, though. The fact that they had to dig up some old statute, which may not even apply here, is evidence of this. Look at the article in the OP:

I agree they don’t have to help, but they should have called 9-1-1

Why would they have to call 9-1-1 but not help? I don't see the logic here, and none of the people in the article explain it.

“May this tragic incident, which has shocked all of us, cause each of us to examine ourselves and our responsibility to one another"

If we have a responsibility to each other why is it not laid out in law? Why does it not exist when it's time to help the poor? Why does it entail calling 9-1-1, which would have been useless anyway given their poor response times, but does not include actually helping the poor schmuck before he drowns?

this idea they SHOULD have done anything is way too unclear to mean anything.

 

[Go figure]

Anytime I see collectivism and selflessness I associate it with the left.

Right so both political ideologies exist at the same time. What causes a person to (sub)consciously choose to act within the characteristics of one ideology over the other?

 

[LUClEN]

Anytime I see collectivism and selflessness I associate it with the left.

Right so both political ideologies exist at the same time. What causes a person to (sub)consciously choose to act within the characteristics of one ideology over the other?

That's above my pay grade.

But if we say that both are legitimate and acceptable, and someone behaves in a way that is more inline with one than the other, and then this behaviour is deemed unacceptable and deserving of punishment, then it clearly is not as acceptable as we've implied. The people interviewed in the article talk about our responsibility to help others. If that exists then my criticism is only fitting as it works along the same reasoning.

 

[Go figure]

Anytime I see collectivism and selflessness I associate it with the left.

Right so both political ideologies exist at the same time. What causes a person to (sub)consciously choose to act within the characteristics of one ideology over the other?

That's above my pay grade.

But if we say that both are legitimate and acceptable, and someone behaves in a way that is more inline with one than the other, and then this behaviour is deemed unacceptable and deserving of punishment, then it clearly is not as acceptable as we've implied. The people interviewed in the article talk about our responsibility to help others. If that exists then my criticism is only fitting as it works along the same reasoning.

All your answers sound less about how u truly feel and more reactionary to how other people feel which comes off as more spiteful or defensive than genuine

 

[babelipsss]

Calling 911 would not have been useless. Calling emergency services could have very well ended in a rescue. It's possible that they may have been in the area. Somebody close by could have been monitoring a CB radio. They may have made it in time. Who knows? Those teens didn't even try. Calling 911 at the very least would have insured that that black man ( who lived under the same system as those teens btw) would have been recovered decently instead of purifying in the hot Florida Sun. Calling 911 would have been far from useless.

 

[Go figure]

Calling 911 would not have been useless. Calling emergency services could have very well ended in a rescue. It's possible that they may have been in the area. Somebody close by could have been monitoring a CB radio. They may have made it in time. Who knows? Those teens didn't even try. Calling 911 at the very least would have insured that that black man ( who lived under the same system as those teens btw) would have been recovered decently instead of purifying in the hot Florida Sun. Calling 911 would have been far from useless.

Why should they care if the white man dont care?

-lucien logic

 

[LUClEN]

Calling 911 would not have been useless. Calling emergency services could have very well ended in a rescue. It's possible that they may have been in the area. Somebody close by could have been monitoring a CB radio. They may have made it in time. Who knows? Those teens didn't even try. Calling 911 at the very least would have insured that that black man ( who lived under the same system as those teens btw) would have been recovered decently instead of purifying in the hot Florida Sun. Calling 911 would have been far from useless.

People wanna half step all the fucking way. Why obligate people to have a duty to do useless shit when we could obligate them to actually help?

It's like the article says, people are just mad and want someone to blame. They had to dig up bullshit laws to satisfy the outcry, but these kids had no fucking duty, and it's partially because we've legitimized rightist individualism that they don't.

Wanna be mad, be mad at the people who say it's fine to not give a fuck.

 

[LUClEN]

Calling 911 would not have been useless. Calling emergency services could have very well ended in a rescue. It's possible that they may have been in the area. Somebody close by could have been monitoring a CB radio. They may have made it in time. Who knows? Those teens didn't even try. Calling 911 at the very least would have insured that that black man ( who lived under the same system as those teens btw) would have been recovered decently instead of purifying in the hot Florida Sun. Calling 911 would have been far from useless.

Why should they care if the white man dont care?

-lucien logic

"I'ma pretend words are penises and put them in mens mouths"

- go figure

 

[Go figure]

Calling 911 would not have been useless. Calling emergency services could have very well ended in a rescue. It's possible that they may have been in the area. Somebody close by could have been monitoring a CB radio. They may have made it in time. Who knows? Those teens didn't even try. Calling 911 at the very least would have insured that that black man ( who lived under the same system as those teens btw) would have been recovered decently instead of purifying in the hot Florida Sun. Calling 911 would have been far from useless.

People wanna half step all the fucking way. Why obligate people to have a duty to do useless shit when we could obligate them to actually help?

It's like the article says, people are just mad and want someone to blame. They had to dig up bullshit laws to satisfy the outcry, but these kids had no fucking duty, and it's partially because we've legitimized rightist individualism that they don't.

Wanna be mad, be mad at the people who say it's fine to not give a fuck.

Last thing here

Sounds like u are assuming the only ppl decrying the situation follow right wing ideologies.

One can be left leaning and still decry it

Or they can be left leaning and still believe they have no duty to do anything...just like u

The point is.....it makes no difference how u lean, its only deflection

 

[LUClEN]

Calling 911 would not have been useless. Calling emergency services could have very well ended in a rescue. It's possible that they may have been in the area. Somebody close by could have been monitoring a CB radio. They may have made it in time. Who knows? Those teens didn't even try. Calling 911 at the very least would have insured that that black man ( who lived under the same system as those teens btw) would have been recovered decently instead of purifying in the hot Florida Sun. Calling 911 would have been far from useless.

People wanna half step all the fucking way. Why obligate people to have a duty to do useless shit when we could obligate them to actually help?

It's like the article says, people are just mad and want someone to blame. They had to dig up bullshit laws to satisfy the outcry, but these kids had no fucking duty, and it's partially because we've legitimized rightist individualism that they don't.

Wanna be mad, be mad at the people who say it's fine to not give a fuck.

Last thing here

Sounds like u are assuming the only ppl decrying the situation follow right wing ideologies.

One can be left leaning and still decry it

Or they can be left leaning and still believe they have no duty to do anything...just like u

The point is.....it makes no difference how u lean, its only deflection

Florida voted hugely in favour of right wing politics last election, despite its huge Cuban population (or maybe because of it). Now they want to erect laws that obligate people to help? Miss me with this faux outrage, pretend to be a good Samaritan nonsense

Look at the bullshit the people pushing for these kids to be tried are saying:

“If they can sit there and watch somebody die in front of their eyes, imagine what they’re going to do when they get older”

So what about these right wingers who can watch people die without healthcare and do nothing? I guess they're punishable, too right? But no, that would demand some consistency in what it is people value.