Teens film and laugh at drowning man instead of calling for help!

[7figz]

10-20. That's just a guess though. It could be more or it could be less.

The existence of worldstar doesn't mean that there is no contradiction in America's beliefs here, just so you know. Either we see ourselves as having a duty to help others, or we do not. By and large, America does not seem to think that duty exists, and from what my web search shows there are not many laws that say that it exists.

Bruh we're talkin about 14-16 yr olds. A highly impressionable age group.

2 hrs/

week watching the news vs 20 hrs playing/watching violence

What do u think has a greater effect on them in terms of desensitization?

That assumes that the news is the only outlet where these ideologies manifest

So then where else do u think your average 14-16 yr old learns about single payer health coverage and white supremacist organizations?

Is maybe social studies class making these kids apathetic as well?

I don't get how you don't understand the basic concept of duty. America, by and large, doesn't see helping others as something people are obligated to do; these kids did not have a duty to do shit. If the law says they do have a duty to risk their well being for other people, then we have that duty in other scenarios. In other scenarios we do not, so we do not have a duty here.

Im not arguing whether they have a duty or not. I dont think they do either. We never disagreed there. What they did was distasteful but not criminal.

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

Yes it does.

So if this had happened while obama was in office would u blame him?

American's were unapologetically individualistic during Obama's presidency. We are discussing broader social philosophical leanings, and the election of Trump is just a manifestation and confirmation of that.

These children are imitating behavior that has been modeled in various arenas and deemed desirable.

That doesn't absolve them of guilt. But they are a symptom, not the disease.

Until we come together en masse and decide that accountability includes the well-being of others, then there is nothing aberrant about their behavior.

So let me get this straight; Its Donald Trumps fault that that man drowned and the kids didn't call 911?

Nobody mentioned Donald Trump. It's the kind of selfish, uncaring, apathetic beliefs that exist on the right side of the political spectrum that coincide with and support the unwillingness to help that we see in this video.

Not sure exactly what their particular argument is about but nothing etherous here. The dude said the election of Trump is an example of the way some people have become... not that it's Trump's fault. If anything that's saying that people were already like that before Trump.

 

[7figz]

What about the son of that Australian chick who just got killed by the cops when she called 911 ?

Think he should be obligated to "call 911" too ?

Gotta like how shit like this is ignored by people who want to say "just call 911".

I think it would've been morally correct to call 911 too but I'm willing to also consider the details. And I'm willing to bet he'd have still died. And I'm willing to bet that if the cops had came, the young dudes would've been questioned, arrested, probably charged with smoking weed, and scrutinized at just about the same level they are now for taping it.

Also willing to bet that they've had, and also know people who have had bad (or fatal) experiences with cops.

Something the dude sboogie on here used to say really applies here - some of yall MFs act like locking people up is the only way to address shit, which makes yall sound like some arrogant racist whites. Somebody's mentioning how the same law could be used arbitrarily against ANY Black person and MFs first response is to wave the shit off like the cops you 'know and love' would never pull some shit like that.

How the fuck do you figure that a 'crime' in which the accused actually had nothing to do with causing the event, and apparently seems to be only on a moral basis of what some say they should've did, only means of addressing it has to be locking them up. Smh.

So if my parent (or any relative) got killed by cops after calling 911, or if cops got a record of killing my people, I should be required to call 911 ? Right.

I'd still watch a cop drown at any given time. I'd probably light a cigar while the shit plays out, and clap at the end too, wouldn't call 911 either.

 

[7figz]

The question remains; Are the teens guilty of Criminal Negligence?

Criminal Negligence

The degree of culpability is determined by applying a reasonable person standard. Criminal negligence becomes "gross" when the failure to foresee involves a "wanton disregard for human life" (see the discussion in corporate manslaughter).

The maximum penalties for criminal negligence causing bodily harm and death are 10 years (14 years if the conviction is for street racing causing bodily harm) and life imprisonment, respectively.

IMO they could be charged with Criminal Negligence for not calling 911. Their family lost all contact of the victim and had gone days without seeing him. They (the family) reported him "missing". If the teens had called 911 at least the family would have known what happened to him.

They won't be charged. CNN confirmed this. Can't arrest someone for being an asshole.

@twentyfivelighters they've been charged

Good fuck those niggers

Watch it with that "nigger" shit. You could disagree with these dudes and their individual characters without jumping off the racist deep-end.

This the type of shit I wonder how mods let rock on here.

I'm black and ... it's called self hatred and my hatred ... is justified

Think about that shit for a few minutes. ^

So now you could spell the word differently, what's different now ?

 

[Go figure]

10-20. That's just a guess though. It could be more or it could be less.

The existence of worldstar doesn't mean that there is no contradiction in America's beliefs here, just so you know. Either we see ourselves as having a duty to help others, or we do not. By and large, America does not seem to think that duty exists, and from what my web search shows there are not many laws that say that it exists.

Bruh we're talkin about 14-16 yr olds. A highly impressionable age group.

2 hrs/

week watching the news vs 20 hrs playing/watching violence

What do u think has a greater effect on them in terms of desensitization?

That assumes that the news is the only outlet where these ideologies manifest

So then where else do u think your average 14-16 yr old learns about single payer health coverage and white supremacist organizations?

Is maybe social studies class making these kids apathetic as well?

I don't get how you don't understand the basic concept of duty. America, by and large, doesn't see helping others as something people are obligated to do; these kids did not have a duty to do shit. If the law says they do have a duty to risk their well being for other people, then we have that duty in other scenarios. In other scenarios we do not, so we do not have a duty here.

Im not arguing whether they have a duty or not. I dont think they do either. We never disagreed there. What they did was distasteful but not criminal.

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

Yes it does.

So if this had happened while obama was in office would u blame him?

American's were unapologetically individualistic during Obama's presidency. We are discussing broader social philosophical leanings, and the election of Trump is just a manifestation and confirmation of that.

These children are imitating behavior that has been modeled in various arenas and deemed desirable.

That doesn't absolve them of guilt. But they are a symptom, not the disease.

Until we come together en masse and decide that accountability includes the well-being of others, then there is nothing aberrant about their behavior.

So let me get this straight; Its Donald Trumps fault that that man drowned and the kids didn't call 911?

Nobody mentioned Donald Trump. It's the kind of selfish, uncaring, apathetic beliefs that exist on the right side of the political spectrum that coincide with and support the unwillingness to help that we see in this video.

Not sure exactly what their particular argument is about but nothing etherous here. The dude said the election of Trump is an example of the way some people have become... not that it's Trump's fault. If anything that's saying that people were already like that before Trump.[/font]

My argument from the start was this has nothin to do with whos in office and they said yes it does.

So trump is a manifestation of this "apathy" and yet they said "people were unapologetically apathetic during obamas presidency"

So either obama is a manifestation of this apathy as well which means its not exclusive to right wing politics (making one of them wrong)

Or obamas not a manifestation meaning it has nothing to do with whos holding office. (Making both of them wrong)

They cosign each other while contradicting each other n the goal posts keep movin

 

[Stew]

The question remains; Are the teens guilty of Criminal Negligence?

Criminal Negligence

The degree of culpability is determined by applying a reasonable person standard. Criminal negligence becomes "gross" when the failure to foresee involves a "wanton disregard for human life" (see the discussion in corporate manslaughter).

The maximum penalties for criminal negligence causing bodily harm and death are 10 years (14 years if the conviction is for street racing causing bodily harm) and life imprisonment, respectively.

IMO they could be charged with Criminal Negligence for not calling 911. Their family lost all contact of the victim and had gone days without seeing him. They (the family) reported him "missing". If the teens had called 911 at least the family would have known what happened to him.

They won't be charged. CNN confirmed this. Can't arrest someone for being an asshole.

@twentyfivelighters they've been charged

Good fuck those niggers

Watch it with that "nigger" shit. You could disagree with these dudes and their individual characters without jumping off the racist deep-end.

This the type of shit I wonder how mods let rock on here.

I'm black and it's not racism it's called self hatred and my hatred for those little fuck niggas is justified

He is black for future reference.

 

[Go figure]

Not sure exactly what their particular argument is about but nothing etherous here. The dude said the election of Trump is an example of the way some people have become... not that it's Trump's fault. If anything that's saying that people were already like that before Trump.

See also

 

[7figz]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

"I blame the political right"

Is ignorant. Point blank.

 

[NoCompetition]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

 

[7figz]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

Yeah - same here. I'm wondering how the fuck he made it out to the middle. Somebody on another site said dude was only physically disabled as in he walked with a limp.

And agree about the the election, not to mention other precedents it set.

My thing is watching it with what laws we get behind when we see how it's always used against us. This, to me, is some shit that should be addressed in a different way. There's also people out here who think people should be charged with a crime simply because of filming it - not even necessarily death, just these viral fights we see.

 

[LUClEN]

My argument still holds even if you remove Trump or any president for that matter. Nixon, Regan, Bush, McCain, Limbaugh, Laren, DeVos... Pick a right winger, any right winger. Many of their views are still in direct conflict with the notion that we have a duty to help our fellow man

You guys are so desperate to refute the argument you can't even address it. You're reaching at the air.

Do u have an apathy meter we dont know about?

One can argue the murder rate in the highest poverty stricken neighborhoods have a high rate of apathy.

With that said, those conditions exist regardless of "left or right wing"

Do u disagree?

Left wing politics aim to remove that income inequality through wealth distribution while right wing politics perpetuates it through tax cuts and cutting of social programs. So no.

 

[LUClEN]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

 

[LUClEN]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

"I blame the political right"

Is ignorant. Point blank.

Except you've failed to prove that it's based on a lack of knowledge. All you've done is proven the epistemological shortcomings of your own views.

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

Its a yes or no answer

had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

 

[LUClEN]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

It was a yes or no answer

had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

I would attribute it to a more leftist ideology, which is part and parcel of their character. Again, these things aren't separated into neat little divisions like some kind of Freudian model of the Mind.

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

I dont really know if there is a correlation but that definitely appeared to be the election that apathy reached uncontrollable proportions. So many didnt bother to vote in such an obvious election...I guess you can draw a parallel they didnt bother to do anything in such an obvious situation here too. Havent seen footage but what was he doing in the middle of a lake? Especially if he couldnt swim dont know if he could or couldnt.

My question is had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

Those aren't nearly as separate as you seem to be implying. If you don't think you're character is shaped by your ideology then you won't see these things as connected.

It was a yes or no answer

had those same teens rescued him would it be attributed to politics or their character?

I would attribute it to a more leftist ideology, which is part and parcel of their character. Again, these things aren't separated into neat little divisions like some kind of Freudian model of the Mind.

So any time u see a rescue vid u think to yourself...hell yea for leftist ideology!!

 

[Go figure]

So all 3 of yall agree that they shouldn't be charged but you just don't see a connection between politics and shit like this ?

I think the point they're trying to make is that people having been becoming more apathetic and generally on some fucked up shit, and that's evident in electing a person like Trump who is apathetic about anything he doesn't agree with and also generally 'fucked up'. Just my quick interpretation.

"I blame the political right"

Is ignorant. Point blank.

Except you've failed to prove that it's based on a lack of knowledge. All you've done is proven the epistemological shortcomings of your own views.

Nah sounds more to me like taking all accountability away from the individual. When something bad happens, blame the guys u dont like not the ppl involved.

People and situations are more complex than "i blame [insert ideology here]"

Maybe they have shitty parents

Maybe they were shook and were masking it

Maybe they didnt think he would actually drown

Maybe they thiught someone else was callin 911

 

[(Nope)]

10-20. That's just a guess though. It could be more or it could be less.

The existence of worldstar doesn't mean that there is no contradiction in America's beliefs here, just so you know. Either we see ourselves as having a duty to help others, or we do not. By and large, America does not seem to think that duty exists, and from what my web search shows there are not many laws that say that it exists.

Bruh we're talkin about 14-16 yr olds. A highly impressionable age group.

2 hrs/

week watching the news vs 20 hrs playing/watching violence

What do u think has a greater effect on them in terms of desensitization?

That assumes that the news is the only outlet where these ideologies manifest

So then where else do u think your average 14-16 yr old learns about single payer health coverage and white supremacist organizations?

Is maybe social studies class making these kids apathetic as well?

I don't get how you don't understand the basic concept of duty. America, by and large, doesn't see helping others as something people are obligated to do; these kids did not have a duty to do shit. If the law says they do have a duty to risk their well being for other people, then we have that duty in other scenarios. In other scenarios we do not, so we do not have a duty here.

Im not arguing whether they have a duty or not. I dont think they do either. We never disagreed there. What they did was distasteful but not criminal.

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

Yes it does.

So if this had happened while obama was in office would u blame him?

American's were unapologetically individualistic during Obama's presidency. We are discussing broader social philosophical leanings, and the election of Trump is just a manifestation and confirmation of that.

These children are imitating behavior that has been modeled in various arenas and deemed desirable.

That doesn't absolve them of guilt. But they are a symptom, not the disease.

Until we come together en masse and decide that accountability includes the well-being of others, then there is nothing aberrant about their behavior.

So let me get this straight; Its Donald Trumps fault that that man drowned and the kids didn't call 911?

Nobody mentioned Donald Trump. It's the kind of selfish, uncaring, apathetic beliefs that exist on the right side of the political spectrum that coincide with and support the unwillingness to help that we see in this video.

How is that ether?

That other guy asked me a question and I answered. You're either not reading or ignoring context.

10-20. That's just a guess though. It could be more or it could be less.

The existence of worldstar doesn't mean that there is no contradiction in America's beliefs here, just so you know. Either we see ourselves as having a duty to help others, or we do not. By and large, America does not seem to think that duty exists, and from what my web search shows there are not many laws that say that it exists.

Bruh we're talkin about 14-16 yr olds. A highly impressionable age group.

2 hrs/

week watching the news vs 20 hrs playing/watching violence

What do u think has a greater effect on them in terms of desensitization?

That assumes that the news is the only outlet where these ideologies manifest

So then where else do u think your average 14-16 yr old learns about single payer health coverage and white supremacist organizations?

Is maybe social studies class making these kids apathetic as well?

I don't get how you don't understand the basic concept of duty. America, by and large, doesn't see helping others as something people are obligated to do; these kids did not have a duty to do shit. If the law says they do have a duty to risk their well being for other people, then we have that duty in other scenarios. In other scenarios we do not, so we do not have a duty here.

Im not arguing whether they have a duty or not. I dont think they do either. We never disagreed there. What they did was distasteful but not criminal.

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

Yes it does.

So if this had happened while obama was in office would u blame him?

American's were unapologetically individualistic during Obama's presidency. We are discussing broader social philosophical leanings, and the election of Trump is just a manifestation and confirmation of that.

These children are imitating behavior that has been modeled in various arenas and deemed desirable.

That doesn't absolve them of guilt. But they are a symptom, not the disease.

Until we come together en masse and decide that accountability includes the well-being of others, then there is nothing aberrant about their behavior.

"Americans were unapologetically individualistic during obama's presidency"

Are u attributing this to obama holding office?

Does obama fall under "the political right"?

Because if not, we can now file "i blame the political right" under "false statement"...at least you are being consistent tho

Again, please tell me under what system or set of ideas where apathy ceased to exist.

What is your argument?

I've said my piece. So this contrarian side of the dialectic--which you stay on--is unnecessary.

When was the argument about "apathy ceasing to exist?" Why the logical fallacy? It seems like you're trying to affirm the consequent and I'm not going. I was not axiomatic or absolute in my words. Nor did I proffer at any point in time apathy has ceased to exist. This is not an either/or situation. But to eschew the influence of those that dictate our living conditions is intellectually dishonest. Especially when speaking to accountability.

Do you just haphazardly stumble into the devil's advocate role of threads to keep us all intellectually honest?

Would you deny that right wing political and social philosophy is not inherently more individualistic?

Again what is your argument?

 

[(Nope)]

10-20. That's just a guess though. It could be more or it could be less.

The existence of worldstar doesn't mean that there is no contradiction in America's beliefs here, just so you know. Either we see ourselves as having a duty to help others, or we do not. By and large, America does not seem to think that duty exists, and from what my web search shows there are not many laws that say that it exists.

Bruh we're talkin about 14-16 yr olds. A highly impressionable age group.

2 hrs/

week watching the news vs 20 hrs playing/watching violence

What do u think has a greater effect on them in terms of desensitization?

That assumes that the news is the only outlet where these ideologies manifest

So then where else do u think your average 14-16 yr old learns about single payer health coverage and white supremacist organizations?

Is maybe social studies class making these kids apathetic as well?

I don't get how you don't understand the basic concept of duty. America, by and large, doesn't see helping others as something people are obligated to do; these kids did not have a duty to do shit. If the law says they do have a duty to risk their well being for other people, then we have that duty in other scenarios. In other scenarios we do not, so we do not have a duty here.

Im not arguing whether they have a duty or not. I dont think they do either. We never disagreed there. What they did was distasteful but not criminal.

My argument is the teens actions have nothing to do with the politics that u brought into the thread. Them being scumbags and laughing at a dying person in imminent danger has nothing to with whos holding office.

Yes it does.

So if this had happened while obama was in office would u blame him?

American's were unapologetically individualistic during Obama's presidency. We are discussing broader social philosophical leanings, and the election of Trump is just a manifestation and confirmation of that.

These children are imitating behavior that has been modeled in various arenas and deemed desirable.

That doesn't absolve them of guilt. But they are a symptom, not the disease.

Until we come together en masse and decide that accountability includes the well-being of others, then there is nothing aberrant about their behavior.

So let me get this straight; Its Donald Trumps fault that that man drowned and the kids didn't call 911?

Nobody mentioned Donald Trump. It's the kind of selfish, uncaring, apathetic beliefs that exist on the right side of the political spectrum that coincide with and support the unwillingness to help that we see in this video.

Not sure exactly what their particular argument is about but nothing etherous here. The dude said the election of Trump is an example of the way some people have become... not that it's Trump's fault. If anything that's saying that people were already like that before Trump.[/font]

My argument from the start was this has nothin to do with whos in office and they said yes it does.

So trump is a manifestation of this "apathy" and yet they said "people were unapologetically apathetic during obamas presidency"

So either obama is a manifestation of this apathy as well which means its not exclusive to right wing politics (making one of them wrong)

Or obamas not a manifestation meaning it has nothing to do with whos holding office. (Making both of them wrong)

They cosign each other while contradicting each other n the goal posts keep movin

You're full of shit my guy. And you continue to misconstrue my argument to earn Joe Rogan brownie points. And yes, by any metric, in a tangible way Obama was center of right. But there was clear context for his position, which you would likely ignore.