Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #1 - Jay-Z

[Busta Carmichael]

The goat period

Dope thread series btw

 

[270crownst]

Well if big is next..then hes almost 5 in everything!

 

[genocidecutter]

I think this concept alot

 

[BDBIID]

Dope thread. Rap analytics

Can't wait for this to drop with some other rappers as the subject

I'll do my hov ranking soon.

 

[metal face terrorist]

Nas is easily higher than a 34.5

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Nas is easily higher than a 34.5

We'll definitely do Nas soon. Here, let's work on some consensus of Jay's score though. Not everyone has to agree completely, but does everything think it's reasonable given the justifications?

 

[metal face terrorist]

Nas is easily higher than a 34.5

We'll definitely do Nas soon. Here, let's work on some consensus of Jay's score though. Not everyone has to agree completely, but does everything think it's reasonable given the justifications?

Your score of Jay is pretty fucking accurate. So is Jay number is the #1 rapper with a score of 34.5 and every rapper after him would have a score less than 34.5? Or your scoring system is being used to define the best rapper and Jay was just the first rapper picked for discussion.

 

[AZTG]

Lyrics - 4 (Jay when he is on top of his game is untouchable and would be a 5, but hes not always on top of his game and other than 4.44 most his shit since AG been average lyrically)

Delivery - 4 (Again, prime Jay delivery cannot be questioned and would be a 5, but his delivery been on and off since AG)

Language - 5 (wordplay has always been amazing.

Storytelling - 4 (even though it usually always the same story)

Catalog - 4 (Jay got classics and duds. His catalog is elite compared to the average rapper, but since Jay is a GOAT, he gets compared to GOATs, and when compared to other GOAT catalogs, he gets a 4)

Subject Matter - 4 (woulda been a 3 before 4.44. Jay excels when he switches his subject matter, he just doesnt do it enough)

Creativity - 3 (he stay wave jumping)

Collaboration - 5 (Jay has rapped with elite rappers and has held his own at the worst. Jay never got killed on a track. He might have not had the best verse, but he always held his own)

Impact - 5 (no need to expand on this)

Overall - 38

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Nas is easily higher than a 34.5

We'll definitely do Nas soon. Here, let's work on some consensus of Jay's score though. Not everyone has to agree completely, but does everything think it's reasonable given the justifications?

Your score of Jay is pretty fucking accurate. So is Jay number is the #1 rapper with a score of 34.5 and every rapper after him would have a score less than 34.5? Or your scoring system is being used to define the best rapper and Jay was just the first rapper picked for discussion.

My purpose for each of these is to come up with a score for each rapper independent of comparisons and based solely on that rapper's ranking in each of those areas. Then once they have a relatively objective score, you can compare them. Jay isn't number 1. He's just the first selected. Where he ranks ultimately will depend on how many of these we do before people get bored and how his score compares to everyone else's.

 

[Built 4 cuban linx]

Should add beat selection

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Should add beat selection

I thought about that, but not all rappers have the same access to the same quality of beats. For example, Jay has top tier producers behind him, so him having better production on his albums isn't necessarily due to a better ear than other rappers.

 

[SlimRemy]

so is this going to be the standard for judging rappers from now on? you should also make sure to include those that would be considered the best at what they do in each category.

an example would be, if you rate someone having a 3.5 for flow, then you have to give examples of rappers with a flow of 5. do this for each category. and sticky that. and then you can debate using songs from the person's actual catalog and reduce the level of subjectivity, and make it more objective and measurable when giving ratings.

for instance if you were going to say Luda's ability to rap fast, then you'd use a song like "Freaky Thangs" as an example where he's rapping with someone who's known for rapping fast and would get a 5 in that category like Twista.

but that's an example of where Luda is actually on a track with a 5 fast rapper. the goal would be to have each category have 5 to 10 songs of (level 5 style standards.)

sticky the categories. rank the rappers and after rating them, then put them in the category section.

it's one thing to say someone is the goat storyteller, has the best word play, dopest rhyme patterns or nicest flow. but rap kind of lacks official standards.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

so is this going to be the standard for judging rappers from now on? you should also make sure to include those that would be considered the best at what they do in each category.

an example would be, if you rate someone having a 3.5 for flow, then you have to give examples of rappers with a flow of 5. do this for each category. and sticky that. and then you can debate using songs from the person's actual catalog and reduce the level of subjectivity, and make it more objective and measurable when giving ratings.

for instance if you were going to say Luda's ability to rap fast, then you'd use a song like "Freaky Thangs" as an example where he's rapping with someone who's known for rapping fast and would get a 5 in that category like Twista.

but that's an example of where Luda is actually on a track with a 5 fast rapper. the goal would be to have each category have 5 to 10 songs of (level 5 style standards.)

sticky the categories. rank the rappers and after rating them, then put them in the category section.

it's one thing to say someone is the goat storyteller, has the best word play, dopest rhyme patterns or nicest flow. but rap kind of lacks official standards.

My purpose with this series is to score and ultimately rank candidates for GOAT.

I'd have no problem with my scoring methodology for this to be used as a general way to compare rappers, and I'd have no problem doing what you suggested if people thought it would be useful and if it would actually be stickied.

 

[SlimRemy]

should do it for beats too. and probably for sports when they debate HOF and GOAT status by position

 

[5 Grand]

Should add beat selection

Cosign.

But I also think there should be a category for making hits. For example, Jay Z has dozens of songs that got radio play that a DJ would play at a nightclub, Nas might be better in other categories but Nas doesn't make hits like Jay. If you went to a nightclub between 97-03 you'd be more likely to hear a Jay Z set than a Nas set.

Ma$e, Luda, Ja Rule, Lil John, Missy, they might not be the greatest MCs but they should get points for making hits and club bangers.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Should add beat selection

Cosign.

But I also think there should be a category for making hits. For example, Jay Z has dozens of songs that got radio play that a DJ would play at a nightclub, Nas might be better in other categories but Nas doesn't make hits like Jay. If you went to a nightclub between 97-03 you'd be more likely to hear a Jay Z set than a Nas set.

Ma$e, Luda, Ja Rule, Lil John, Missy, they might not be the greatest MCs but they should get points for making hits and club bangers.

You can consider ability to make hits under Impact. It shouldn't be its own category though because it's not solely a result of the rapper's ability. Lil John has more hits than Nas, but it's not because he's a better rapper in any sense. It's because he makes club oriented, casual music. Those type songs get more radio play. A rapper shouldn't get extra credit because they make a certain type of music just like others shouldn't get penalized because they don't make that type. On top of that, we know certain rappers have gotten bigger pushes from record companies, radio stations, and other media outlets. Sometimes a hit isn't a hit because it's a superior song. Sometimes a hit is a hit because it's received exposure that other songs just didn't have.

 

[genocidecutter]

Lyrics (4)-Solid

Delivery (3)- His flow was average and I say this as a fan(of his older stuff anyways)

Language (5)-When he speaks you listen

Storytelling (5)-He was never the best lyricist but he knew how to tell a story.

Catalog (4)-He gets 4 best off the streengh of his old albums. His new work just doesn't have the same punch

Subject Matter (4)-He's fairly creative he can do club hits to political stuff in a flash

Creativity (5)-No need to explain this he's Jay-z for peeps sake

Collaboration (5)-When Jay-Z is on the track you better bring your a game or you'll be washed.

Impact (5)-He's the richest rapper in the game and pop culture icon.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

This isn't really a "Everybody rank the rapper" topic. I provided the base rankings. If you think something I put was wrong, then call it out and give an argument for why it should be changed. That way we'll be able to refine the scores until some agreement can be achieved.

 

[5 Grand]

Should add beat selection

Cosign.

But I also think there should be a category for making hits. For example, Jay Z has dozens of songs that got radio play that a DJ would play at a nightclub, Nas might be better in other categories but Nas doesn't make hits like Jay. If you went to a nightclub between 97-03 you'd be more likely to hear a Jay Z set than a Nas set.

Ma$e, Luda, Ja Rule, Lil John, Missy, they might not be the greatest MCs but they should get points for making hits and club bangers.

You can consider ability to make hits under Impact. It shouldn't be its own category though because it's not solely a result of the rapper's ability. Lil John has more hits than Nas, but it's not because he's a better rapper in any sense. It's because he makes club oriented, casual music. Those type songs get more radio play. A rapper shouldn't get extra credit because they make a certain type of music just like others shouldn't get penalized because they don't make that type. On top of that, we know certain rappers have gotten bigger pushes from record companies, radio stations, and other media outlets. Sometimes a hit isn't a hit because it's a superior song. Sometimes a hit is a hit because it's received exposure that other songs just didn't have.

This isn't really a "Everybody rank the rapper" topic. I provided the base rankings. If you think something I put was wrong, then call it out and give an argument for why it should be changed. That way we'll be able to refine the scores until some agreement can be achieved.

Well you have 9 categories. I don't see the harm in making a 10th category for making hits. Some people are dope MCs, but they can't make a hit to save their life. Look at Wu-Tang, all nine of them are skilled MCs, but Method Man and Ghostface are the best at making hits (Old Dirty made some hits). And if you think about it, everything else is equal amongst all of the MCs in Wu Tang. They all had the same producer and the same amount of promotion..

 

[Nah Son]

Nas is easily higher than a 34.5

Well that didnt take long...