"Rape Is Not Always Rape" - Nick Ross Triggers Outrage And Defends Rape Comments

  • Thread starter Thread starter New Editor
  • Start date Start date
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

At the bolded, yes I do

blackrain;5865152 said:
desertrain10;5864044 said:
blackrain;5863870 said:
desertrain10;5863824 said:
Theodis;5863567 said:
better question would be, how many of us been hit with false accusations only to have the detective realize the bitch is full of shit?

you throwing stats like they actually prosecute bitches that cry wolf.

your numbers are skewed because yall dont want them bitches that cry wolf to be held accountable, because it would "dissuade the real victims to come forward"

you aint slick.

only half of victims of rape come forward anyways

and they do prosecute individuals who falsely cry rape

its a hard thing to prove though

Just like rape

Consider out of 100 rapes 5 lead to convictions

And only 3% of rapist spend a day in jail

Google it boo

This is true, but you can't pretend there isn't a push to not prosecute or even expose the names of women who make false rape accusations for the fear that it will discourage other rape victims from coming forward with their actual true stories/accusations.

Ok sure. Though i believe anyone who commits perjury should be held accountable for their actions, we must also it make it so victims of rape feel as though the law is on their side to prevent more rapes. As i was saying an already low percentage of rapes are actually reported, and most rapist are repeat offenders.

And one could even argue that first address why only 3% of rapist actually see a jail cell before we start locking up the few who make false allegations...

Its all just talk now. People who falsely cry rape are being legally prosecuted more then ever before

I don't disagree that something needs to be done about how rapes are prosecuted and increase the number of rapists in prison so they can be stomped to death by other prisoners. Rapists are the lowest form of life, always have been. However I don't see a reason to keep these two issues apart. They can both be addressed at the same time. False imprisonment, especially for a crime like rape that once accused even if the charges are dropped and the woman said to be liar carries serious societal and social consequences forever. Nobody looks at a man whose been accused of a sexual assault crime the same again even if the woman flat out admits he lied. There will always be some that doubt it and think he's guilty and his life will suffer because of that.

I kinda alluded to this earlier with the 'accusation of rape' holding power in a similar fashion to the way the 'actual act of rape' does so on the victim.

Valentinez A. Kaiser;5863988 said:
Tymoney19;5863961 said:
Rape can be complicated it aint as simple as yes and no. Woman have the power to destroy a mans life just by the accusation alone. If a girl drinks too much fucks a stranger wakes up and regrets it " oh he raped me". They use it as a tool to get revenge on ex boyfriends, husbands etc. it's pretty hard to disprove a rape because even with consensual sex the physical evidence is still there. Rape in 2013 is tool used against men to show power. I'm sure there are legitimate rapes but Lets not forget that woman can be spiteful.

It's interesting you say that at the bolded, because it's kinda the flip side to the actual act of "rape".

What I mean by that is it is often and widely cited that the act of rape is used on women (or men) to show power, but what you're saying here is that the "accusation of rape" regardless whether it is in fact true or not is used in equally the same manner.

That's a really interesting perspective.
 
Last edited:
Batman.;5862065 said:
Nasty motherfuckers trying get the right to fuck 14 year olds now. Sit down before I send you sick fucks to Arkham.

nigga......... stop it with the batman shit. we all know you are really just a 24 year old white guy that listens to hip hop and lives with his parents making some money but not enough to live on your own, have trouble gettin pussy so you go pay hookers for sex and then after you have such regret that you go on the IC and make en entire thread to justify your actions for paying for said pussy.

 
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

t
The Lonious Monk;5863982 said:
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend a case of a chick getting drunk and consenting to sex as being rape. How can the law on one hand say you're responsible enough after drinking to know not to drive but on the hand say you're not responsible enough to know whether you want to have sex or not. That doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing to charge a guy for having sex with a chick that's passed out because she drank too much. It's another thing completely to charge a guy because the chick that agreed to have sex with him had a couple drinks that night.

its not that blk and white ...men arent just charged and/or convicted of rape solely because their accuser had to much to drink

The plantiff has to make the case that in her drunken state she was taken advantage of physically or she was unconscious or there are traces of a date rape drug in her system

law enforcement officials arent even going to pursue the case if there isnt pictures, bruising, etc basically any incriminating evidence to suggest a rape occured

And people slander and lie on people all the time ...doesnt make it right or mean we shouldnt hold these people legally accountable for their actions, which we already do.... it also doesnt mean we should take rape accusations any less seriously, now thats a slippery slope

No one said it would be a slam dunk case. I said that it's possible for a guy to be charged even if he didn't know the chick was drunk. That's a fact. And it could come down to who the jury believes.
 
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

t
The Lonious Monk;5863982 said:
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend a case of a chick getting drunk and consenting to sex as being rape. How can the law on one hand say you're responsible enough after drinking to know not to drive but on the hand say you're not responsible enough to know whether you want to have sex or not. That doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing to charge a guy for having sex with a chick that's passed out because she drank too much. It's another thing completely to charge a guy because the chick that agreed to have sex with him had a couple drinks that night.

its not that blk and white ...men arent just charged and/or convicted of rape solely because their accuser had to much to drink

The plantiff has to make the case that in her drunken state she was taken advantage of physically or she was unconscious or there are traces of a date rape drug in her system

law enforcement officials arent even going to pursue the case if there isnt pictures, bruising, etc basically any incriminating evidence to suggest a rape occured

And people slander and lie on people all the time ...doesnt make it right or mean we shouldnt hold these people legally accountable for their actions, which we already do.... it also doesnt mean we should take rape accusations any less seriously, now thats a slippery slope

Of course I sympathize for women who where actually raped I said my mom was she psychotic at times of course I do... This thread isn't about that there are situations where women are actively putting themselves in situations to tempt men and really don't minde having sex even if they say no.
 
SixSickSins;5862315 said:
Black_Samson;5862192 said:
SixSickSins;5862169 said:
images


I see you all got together and took a Pro Rape/No Means Yes group photo. Cock hungry dick pigs.

says the chick who is prone to making rape jokes her damn self...

you niggas pick and choose when to get offended... thats why your movement is a sham.

you cant even intelligently argue this shit without resorting to typical batshit crazy man hater tactics...

You're dumb as hell, Jamel.

It's either blatantly wrong or it's not.

False dichotomy fallacy & ad hominem fallacy.

At the same damn time.
 
Last edited:
RodrigueZz;5867750 said:
SixSickSins;5862315 said:
Black_Samson;5862192 said:
SixSickSins;5862169 said:
images


I see you all got together and took a Pro Rape/No Means Yes group photo. Cock hungry dick pigs.

says the chick who is prone to making rape jokes her damn self...

you niggas pick and choose when to get offended... thats why your movement is a sham.

you cant even intelligently argue this shit without resorting to typical batshit crazy man hater tactics...

You're dumb as hell, Jamel.

It's either blatantly wrong or it's not.

False dichotomy fallacy & ad hominem fallacy.

At the same damn time.
Cosign and ether.

At the same damn time.
 
blackrain;5865152 said:
desertrain10;5864044 said:
blackrain;5863870 said:
desertrain10;5863824 said:
Theodis;5863567 said:
better question would be, how many of us been hit with false accusations only to have the detective realize the bitch is full of shit?

you throwing stats like they actually prosecute bitches that cry wolf.

your numbers are skewed because yall dont want them bitches that cry wolf to be held accountable, because it would "dissuade the real victims to come forward"

you aint slick.

only half of victims of rape come forward anyways

and they do prosecute individuals who falsely cry rape

its a hard thing to prove though

Just like rape

Consider out of 100 rapes 5 lead to convictions

And only 3% of rapist spend a day in jail

Google it boo

This is true, but you can't pretend there isn't a push to not prosecute or even expose the names of women who make false rape accusations for the fear that it will discourage other rape victims from coming forward with their actual true stories/accusations.

Ok sure. Though i believe anyone who commits perjury should be held accountable for their actions, we must also it make it so victims of rape feel as though the law is on their side to prevent more rapes. As i was saying an already low percentage of rapes are actually reported, and most rapist are repeat offenders.

And one could even argue that first address why only 3% of rapist actually see a jail cell before we start locking up the few who make false allegations...

Its all just talk now. People who falsely cry rape are being legally prosecuted more then ever before

I don't disagree that something needs to be done about how rapes are prosecuted and increase the number of rapists in prison so they can be stomped to death by other prisoners. Rapists are the lowest form of life, always have been. However I don't see a reason to keep these two issues apart. They can both be addressed at the same time. False imprisonment, especially for a crime like rape that once accused even if the charges are dropped and the woman said to be liar carries serious societal and social consequences forever. Nobody looks at a man whose been accused of a sexual assault crime the same again even if the woman flat out admits he lied. There will always be some that doubt it and think he's guilty and his life will suffer because of that.

yes there are men who have been falsely accused of rape and its sickening however what more do think the criminal justice could do to prevent such things from happening? again more and more women who falsely cry rape are being prosecuted... should law officials start taking rape accusations less seriously than they already do as well? lol... people are wrongly convicted of murder, assault, theft, etc all the time so should we stop enforcing the law?

unfortunately, nothing short of psychic powers will ensure that the guilty are always punished and the innocent never are

and this isn't directed at anyone in specific, but reality is we can almost never know when someone has been falsely accused of rape, so when someone claims it happens constantly i shake my head and question their motivations, thinking, etc

only a handful of people have been cleared by new evidence, nowhere near a significant proportion of the people in prison for rape. yes obviously there are people who are innocent and we don't know it, but you can't get statistics on a thing nobody knows. not to mention, most of the cases touted in the media as false rape reports are when someone tells the police that someone raped him or her, but does not name names

all this talk does is reinforce the common wisdom that "women lie about rape all the time," making rape a little easier to commit

 
Last edited:
The Lonious Monk;5865662 said:
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

t
The Lonious Monk;5863982 said:
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend a case of a chick getting drunk and consenting to sex as being rape. How can the law on one hand say you're responsible enough after drinking to know not to drive but on the hand say you're not responsible enough to know whether you want to have sex or not. That doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing to charge a guy for having sex with a chick that's passed out because she drank too much. It's another thing completely to charge a guy because the chick that agreed to have sex with him had a couple drinks that night.

its not that blk and white ...men arent just charged and/or convicted of rape solely because their accuser had to much to drink

The plantiff has to make the case that in her drunken state she was taken advantage of physically or she was unconscious or there are traces of a date rape drug in her system

law enforcement officials arent even going to pursue the case if there isnt pictures, bruising, etc basically any incriminating evidence to suggest a rape occured

And people slander and lie on people all the time ...doesnt make it right or mean we shouldnt hold these people legally accountable for their actions, which we already do.... it also doesnt mean we should take rape accusations any less seriously, now thats a slippery slope

No one said it would be a slam dunk case. I said that it's possible for a guy to be charged even if he didn't know the chick was drunk. That's a fact. And it could come down to who the jury believes.

ok

my point was a woman being intoxicated and having "buyer's remorse" after the act is not legally considered rape

at the moment, in all 51 states if im not mistaken a drunken woman is deemed to be capable of giving consent so long as she is not proven to have been unconscious at the time of the assault and determined not to be mentally retarded, drugged, or below the age of consent at the time of the rape ...

other than that drunk or not the accuser would have had to make the case he or she was physically taken advantage of

and yes women, men lie....and consequently people have been wrongly convicted of rape, murder, assault, theft, etc .... and yes sometimes people who make false reports or lie on the witness stand are charged with a crime and sometimes they are not unfortunately.... but does this all mean we stop enforcing the law?

i sound like a broken record but there is nothing we can do to ensure that the guilty are always punished and the innocent never are....

not to minimize your concerns but really there are more pressing and prevalent issues that need to be addressed. like our military's tendency to sweep rape cases involving both men and women victims under the rug. or how our colleges are struggling to deal with on-campus rapes

 
Last edited:
desertrain10;5869588 said:
The Lonious Monk;5865662 said:
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

t
The Lonious Monk;5863982 said:
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend a case of a chick getting drunk and consenting to sex as being rape. How can the law on one hand say you're responsible enough after drinking to know not to drive but on the hand say you're not responsible enough to know whether you want to have sex or not. That doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing to charge a guy for having sex with a chick that's passed out because she drank too much. It's another thing completely to charge a guy because the chick that agreed to have sex with him had a couple drinks that night.

its not that blk and white ...men arent just charged and/or convicted of rape solely because their accuser had to much to drink

The plantiff has to make the case that in her drunken state she was taken advantage of physically or she was unconscious or there are traces of a date rape drug in her system

law enforcement officials arent even going to pursue the case if there isnt pictures, bruising, etc basically any incriminating evidence to suggest a rape occured

And people slander and lie on people all the time ...doesnt make it right or mean we shouldnt hold these people legally accountable for their actions, which we already do.... it also doesnt mean we should take rape accusations any less seriously, now thats a slippery slope

No one said it would be a slam dunk case. I said that it's possible for a guy to be charged even if he didn't know the chick was drunk. That's a fact. And it could come down to who the jury believes.

ok

my point was a woman being intoxicated and having "buyer's remorse" after the act is not legally considered rape

at the moment, in all 51 states if im not mistaken a drunken woman is deemed to be capable of giving consent so long as she is not proven to have been unconscious at the time of the assault and determined not to be mentally retarded, drugged, or below the age of consent at the time of the rape ...

other than that drunk or not the accuser would have had to make the case he or she was physically taken advantage of

and yes women, men lie....and consequently people have been wrongly convicted of rape, murder, assault, theft, etc .... and yes sometimes people who make false reports or lie on the witness stand are charged with a crime and sometimes they are not unfortunately.... but does this all mean we stop enforcing the law?

i sound like a broken record but there is nothing we can do to ensure that the guilty are always punished and the innocent never are....

not to minimize your concerns but really there are more pressing and prevalent issues that need to be addressed. like our military's tendency to sweep rape cases involving both men and women victims under the rug. or how our colleges are struggling to deal with on-campus rapes

I'm pretty sure that's not true.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-02-09/news/ls-30077_1_young-people

Based on this article, in California, it is considered rape if a person is intoxicated to the point that they can't say "No." Other states have similar laws. The point is it's very subjective. You're right. A woman can't just get drunk, have sex, say she didn't want to do it, and call rape. The problem is that's not how it goes down. The chick can say she was intoxicated and didn't know what she was doing and it would be a problem. Again, I'm not saying it would be a slam dunk case, but even if it didn't go anywhere, who wants to put up with that?

 
The Lonious Monk;5869806 said:
desertrain10;5869588 said:
The Lonious Monk;5865662 said:
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

t
The Lonious Monk;5863982 said:
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend a case of a chick getting drunk and consenting to sex as being rape. How can the law on one hand say you're responsible enough after drinking to know not to drive but on the hand say you're not responsible enough to know whether you want to have sex or not. That doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing to charge a guy for having sex with a chick that's passed out because she drank too much. It's another thing completely to charge a guy because the chick that agreed to have sex with him had a couple drinks that night.

its not that blk and white ...men arent just charged and/or convicted of rape solely because their accuser had to much to drink

The plantiff has to make the case that in her drunken state she was taken advantage of physically or she was unconscious or there are traces of a date rape drug in her system

law enforcement officials arent even going to pursue the case if there isnt pictures, bruising, etc basically any incriminating evidence to suggest a rape occured

And people slander and lie on people all the time ...doesnt make it right or mean we shouldnt hold these people legally accountable for their actions, which we already do.... it also doesnt mean we should take rape accusations any less seriously, now thats a slippery slope

No one said it would be a slam dunk case. I said that it's possible for a guy to be charged even if he didn't know the chick was drunk. That's a fact. And it could come down to who the jury believes.

ok

my point was a woman being intoxicated and having "buyer's remorse" after the act is not legally considered rape

at the moment, in all 51 states if im not mistaken a drunken woman is deemed to be capable of giving consent so long as she is not proven to have been unconscious at the time of the assault and determined not to be mentally retarded, drugged, or below the age of consent at the time of the rape ...

other than that drunk or not the accuser would have had to make the case he or she was physically taken advantage of

and yes women, men lie....and consequently people have been wrongly convicted of rape, murder, assault, theft, etc .... and yes sometimes people who make false reports or lie on the witness stand are charged with a crime and sometimes they are not unfortunately.... but does this all mean we stop enforcing the law?

i sound like a broken record but there is nothing we can do to ensure that the guilty are always punished and the innocent never are....

not to minimize your concerns but really there are more pressing and prevalent issues that need to be addressed. like our military's tendency to sweep rape cases involving both men and women victims under the rug. or how our colleges are struggling to deal with on-campus rapes

I'm pretty sure that's not true.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-02-09/news/ls-30077_1_young-people

Based on this article, in California, it is considered rape if a person is intoxicated to the point that they can't say "No." Other states have similar laws. The point is it's very subjective. You're right. A woman can't just get drunk, have sex, say she didn't want to do it, and call rape. The problem is that's not how it goes down. The chick can say she was intoxicated and didn't know what she was doing and it would be a problem. Again, I'm not saying it would be a slam dunk case, but even if it didn't go anywhere, who wants to put up with that?

not exactly ...the law referenced in the article is vague

it reads if "a person is prevented from resisting (sex) by any intoxicating, narcotic or anesthetic substance" it can constitutes rape ...key word "resisting"....while yes one could interpret "resisting" to mean if a person is intoxicated to the point that they can't say "no" its rape...one could also interpret that to mean if a person has sex with someone who is passed out drunk or blanked out on other drugs and therefore unable to physically/verbally resist their advances it is rape. and reading the article the experts agree the point of the law was to protect

while laws such as this one are indeed vague, and yea other states have laws where it is considered rape if a person is intoxicated and therefore incapable of making an informed decision, consensual sex after a few drinks doesn't constitute a rape anywhere...that's all i was trying to say

i get it no one wants to deal with a woman being drunk and having "buyer's remorse" the next morning, so i will admit they do need to either clarify and or toss out some laws
 
desertrain10;5869964 said:
The Lonious Monk;5869806 said:
desertrain10;5869588 said:
The Lonious Monk;5865662 said:
desertrain10;5865144 said:
I prob wont get a straight answer but instead of solely focusing on false rape claims drunk sex male posters do you sympathize with the women who were actually raped yet couldnt prove it in the court of law which is a very difficult thing to do, or their rapist was released on a legal technicality...or take into account how often these said women are ostrasized by their peers because many people assume them to liars

And wha do you think about those who live in constant terror because their rapists are still walking around

t
The Lonious Monk;5863982 said:
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend a case of a chick getting drunk and consenting to sex as being rape. How can the law on one hand say you're responsible enough after drinking to know not to drive but on the hand say you're not responsible enough to know whether you want to have sex or not. That doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing to charge a guy for having sex with a chick that's passed out because she drank too much. It's another thing completely to charge a guy because the chick that agreed to have sex with him had a couple drinks that night.

its not that blk and white ...men arent just charged and/or convicted of rape solely because their accuser had to much to drink

The plantiff has to make the case that in her drunken state she was taken advantage of physically or she was unconscious or there are traces of a date rape drug in her system

law enforcement officials arent even going to pursue the case if there isnt pictures, bruising, etc basically any incriminating evidence to suggest a rape occured

And people slander and lie on people all the time ...doesnt make it right or mean we shouldnt hold these people legally accountable for their actions, which we already do.... it also doesnt mean we should take rape accusations any less seriously, now thats a slippery slope

No one said it would be a slam dunk case. I said that it's possible for a guy to be charged even if he didn't know the chick was drunk. That's a fact. And it could come down to who the jury believes.

ok

my point was a woman being intoxicated and having "buyer's remorse" after the act is not legally considered rape

at the moment, in all 51 states if im not mistaken a drunken woman is deemed to be capable of giving consent so long as she is not proven to have been unconscious at the time of the assault and determined not to be mentally retarded, drugged, or below the age of consent at the time of the rape ...

other than that drunk or not the accuser would have had to make the case he or she was physically taken advantage of

and yes women, men lie....and consequently people have been wrongly convicted of rape, murder, assault, theft, etc .... and yes sometimes people who make false reports or lie on the witness stand are charged with a crime and sometimes they are not unfortunately.... but does this all mean we stop enforcing the law?

i sound like a broken record but there is nothing we can do to ensure that the guilty are always punished and the innocent never are....

not to minimize your concerns but really there are more pressing and prevalent issues that need to be addressed. like our military's tendency to sweep rape cases involving both men and women victims under the rug. or how our colleges are struggling to deal with on-campus rapes

I'm pretty sure that's not true.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-02-09/news/ls-30077_1_young-people

Based on this article, in California, it is considered rape if a person is intoxicated to the point that they can't say "No." Other states have similar laws. The point is it's very subjective. You're right. A woman can't just get drunk, have sex, say she didn't want to do it, and call rape. The problem is that's not how it goes down. The chick can say she was intoxicated and didn't know what she was doing and it would be a problem. Again, I'm not saying it would be a slam dunk case, but even if it didn't go anywhere, who wants to put up with that?

not exactly ...the law referenced in the article is vague

it reads if "a person is prevented from resisting (sex) by any intoxicating, narcotic or anesthetic substance" it can constitutes rape ...key word "resisting"....while yes one could interpret "resisting" to mean if a person is intoxicated to the point that they can't say "no" its rape...one could also interpret that to mean if a person has sex with someone who is passed out drunk or blanked out on other drugs and therefore unable to physically/verbally resist their advances it is rape. and reading the article the experts agree the point of the law was to protect

while laws such as this one are indeed vague, and yea other states have laws where it is considered rape if a person is intoxicated and therefore incapable of making an informed decision, consensual sex after a few drinks doesn't constitute a rape anywhere...that's all i was trying to say

i get it no one wants to deal with a woman being drunk and having "buyer's remorse" the next morning, so i will admit they do need to either clarify and or toss out some laws

Fair enough.
 
This is a follow up article by Nick Ross on his controversial book, Crime, How to solve it and why almost everything we’re told is wrong, and the "rape comments" put into "better" context (abridged version).

The debate over the controversial book has yet to die down, but its author asks: Is rape so taboo that is can never be discussed?

By Nick Ross

Consider the following: ‘No amount of incitement can excuse rape. Rape is one of the most violating crimes. Victims tend to feel dirty, embarrassed, racked with revulsion and self-blame.’

Would you say the writer of this was any of the following: ‘slimy’, ‘disgusting’, ‘offensive’, a ‘victim-blaming idiot’ or an ‘apologist for rape’?

Well, apparently I am.
In a firestorm of outrage I have been denounced as crass and insensitive, and accused of undoing years of progress and promoting the view that men are still ‘just helpless slaves to their own desires’.



I always knew my book would be controversial. The publishers warn on the cover that Crime will delight those who come to it with an open mind and infuriate ideologues from the Left, Right and Centre.


After all it is a wholesale demolition of dozens of misconceptions about crime.

It shows how stunningly fast crime has fallen since the 1990s, how the truth was obscured by misleading police statistics, and how the media, including broadcasters, withheld the truth for 15 years until it became too palpable to disguise.

It challenges all the established social theories about crime. It shows how crime is far more the product of prosperity than poverty, and how well-heeled people are just as prone to be on the fiddle as the poor.

It demonstrates why punishment doesn’t work the way it should, and how most rehab schemes don’t cut re-offending as they claim. It argues for a wholesale rethinking of policing and castigates a lot of criminology for ignoring the plight of victims and indulging in political philosophy. And it says the main answers to crime have been hiding in plain view.

So there is a lot to get steamed up about, quite apart from a chapter about sex.

Even there people might have taken umbrage in a lot of ways.

I explain how far more men are victims of domestic violence than is commonly supposed and how the risk of spiked drinks has been ludicrously hyped.

But it was the word ‘rape’ that set off the chain reaction.

So what caused the howls of outrage?

First, a lot of it was little more than that: an instinctive reaction to someone – worse, a man – suggesting that not all rapes cause the same amount of harm or are equally culpable.

Rape crisis activists were sought out to reproach me. The internet was ablaze with scorn.

And I was hugely heartened to get support from women who matter most: rape survivors. I hesitate to quote them because even the accounts from victims of rape seem to be reviled unless they conform to a politically correct view.

We are supposed to say that all rape amounts to the same thing, that nothing a woman does could make her vulnerable, and it is always the man’s fault.


For example, this email came from a woman who deeply resents ‘the madness’ and ‘the rants’ that drown out voices like her own: ‘I was raped twice in my teens. Neither were traumatic experiences. I didn’t feel great about myself afterwards but I put myself in situations where there would certainly have been confusion/ambiguity on the man’s part. It was to do with my generally low self-esteem at the time, but that was my problem, and not theirs.’

And another wrote: ‘In company with most people I’m getting irate about this story. I am a victim myself and I certainly see the variations between what I experienced and what other victims in other situations might experience. It is a great shame we can’t talk seriously about the very real problem of rape because any comment that isn’t baying for the blood of all offenders everywhere is screamed down. The vitriol makes sensible discussion impossible.’

So was I right? Should I just face down the critics? Well, I do not retract any of the facts I set out or my interpretations of the evidence. But I do have real concerns.

The whole essence of my book is that we can aggravate crime by tempting fate and curb it by playing safe. Whether as governments, corporations or individuals we all need to do what we can to make society less vulnerable to crime.

I explain how it was our collective recklessness that caused crime to surge but also how our responses to the epidemic then caused crime to drop.

But for victims, the distinction I draw between cause (an empirical issue) and culpability (a moral one) was too easily lost.

Unsurprisingly it is deeply wounding if there is any hint that victims should be blamed for their own suffering.

There was one further passage I rather wish I had expressed more clearly. I wrote, ‘Not even in the licentious days of the Charles II Restoration was it acceptable for women to dress as provocatively as they have done in Western culture since the 1960s.’

I went on to say, in spite of this, ‘so-called stranger rapes, the sort most often reported by the newspapers, make up only a small proportion of the rapes that women divulge through surveys’.

I thought this was clear: scanty clothing does not seem to provoke rape, as many expect it might. More importantly, I ridiculed the idea that ‘men cannot help themselves’. They plainly can.

Yet just the mention of scanty clothing in the context of rape is inflammatory.


As you can see, I couldn’t find any evidence that sexy clothes provoke sex crimes – I’m with the ‘Slut-walkers’ on that and I’ve always said so.

But let’s imagine such evidence existed. Should it be censored? Should women not be told? Is the whole subject so taboo it can never be discussed?

If this all sounds like self-justification then I shall leave you with the words of my most prominently quoted critic.

Jo Wood’s front-page attacks on me were especially wounding since she is a thoughtful and formidable woman, a former magistrate and science researcher who runs Merseyside’s Rape & Sexual Abuse (RASA) Centre and was awarded an MBE for her work with rape victims.

Now, though, she’s downloaded Crime on Kindle and has sent me her thoughts on some of the phrases for which I was lambasted, and the context in which they actually appear in the book. She found no fault with any single one of them. With her permission, here is a sample of her analysis:

Quote: ‘Women who are flirtatious are at least partly responsible if they are raped, and a quarter feel the same way about rape victims who act provocatively.’

Jo’s assessment: Quote: ‘This is a section quoting facts discovered by Amnesty International and is not a personal opinion.’

Quote: ‘We have come to acknowledge it is foolish to leave laptops on the back seats of cars...’ followed by ‘no amount of incitement can ever excuse rape’.

Jo’s assessment: ‘This section is actually making the case for rape to be looked at differently and thought about differently.’ It is followed by: ‘It is inane to confuse explanation with justification.’

And so it goes on. She concludes: ‘Maybe they should think about who is fast becoming the victim here – and without even holding a trial.

‘Having read the full version, I am satisfied there is no intention to criticise victims of rape and that the comments made, when read in context, actually strengthen the arguments for sexual violence crimes to be treated with the empathy and respect that victims demand.’

Jo herself says: ‘READ THE BOOK.’ Obviously, so do I.

Read more:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ss--unwanted-sex-violation.html#ixzz2V5GjIN3i

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

Members online

Trending content

Thread statistics

Created
-,
Last reply from
-,
Replies
200
Views
0
Back
Top
Menu
Your profile
Post thread…