AM: As one who has watched this develop what would you identify as the main reason for the increase targeting of Hip Hop artists? You mentioned the political aspect of it, however, is any of it because of the level of visibility and is it financial as well?
CM: Well, let’s start with their own words. Right around the year 2001, 2002, the New York newspapers and then MTV, began to report that there did exist inside of the New York police department a special unit devoted just to the Hip Hop community. They tried to deny it at first, and then eventually, the New York City police acknowledged that it was factual. Their own position is that there is a unique level and peculiar level of violence in Hip Hop music and in the industry, and that there are ties to street organizations that warrant special attention in order to prevent feuds from taking place, extortion, acts of violence, and murders.
That’s what the New York police department has said and then, as you know brother, it came out last year in the Miami Herald, Nicole White, Evelyn McDonald and another sister wrote an article exposing that the Miami Beach police department kept 6" thick dossiers on Hip Hop artists that came out of New York that stayed in Miami. The Miami police gave the same reason that they were concerned about the safety of the artists and therefore they had to pay special attention to them. But what wasn’t reported and didn’t come out is that the letterhead for the documents in this dossier that the Miami police had, were from the DEA. Is this really about protecting artists when you have DEA letterhead involved? And then, I want to really emphasize this brother, because I have to say I was one, to the best of my knowledge I’m the only one that actually wrote about these hearings the way I did. In the year 2000, I was actually present at Congress for the hearing surrounding the Rap A Lot investigation.
The Houston police department, the IRS, the DEA and the FBI, all had James Prince and the rapper Scarface and really the whole 5th Ward of Houston, under surveillance, in their hearings. I’m sitting right there. They’re giving me paperwork. I’m actually able to see who the undercover agents were. They admit that they had close to 400 informants inside of the 5th Ward that were related to this investigation. So, I think eventually they arrested Scarface on some possession of marijuana charge. Does that really warrant 400 informants and FBI, DEA, the IRS? I just want to give you their rationale so you can start to see some of the holes and some of the red flags that should go up when agencies say they’re trying to protect Hip Hop artists and yet, in the case of Notorious BIG when they’re literally following him at the time that he’s shot, they can’t point you to a suspect. There’s been no conviction in the murder of 2PAC or Biggie.
AM: It would be extremely naïve to think that if they had the 400 agents and officials in Houston, that this wasn’t being duplicated in some way in other major markets where you have many rappers who live and conduct business. Is that correct?
CM: Yes. And the context for that is J. Edgar Hoover. I think in the ‘60s he had, I think 3,300 informants. They called it "the ghetto listening post." "The ghetto listening post," was an informant program that the FBI ran to get people in the inner cities to infiltrate Black, progressive organizations. So, it’s the same, the tactics are absolutely the same, if you look at this. But I think the smoking gun, so to speak, came last year with the Miami investigation and some of the questions that the police were not able to, and the DEA were not able to answer. And some of those questions were not posed properly but again, I did not write the series saying that I was going to definitively prove anything. I just said that I was raising some questions and as I wrote, with each passing year, more and more evidence came to support the validity of the thesis that I put forward.
AM: What responsibility do the rappers have to try to keep themselves out of the legal system?
CM: Well, they have a personal responsibility to do what’s right and proper and to not do anything illegal that conflicts with their belief system. I don’t think that’s necessarily a rapper responsibility, that’s a human responsibility but what I would say is that I think that the artist should be exceptionally sensitive to the fact that they have a disproportionate amount of influence on the thinking of young people and even older people who admire them. I just think that the artists should have a knowledge of history, greater sensitivity and if they didn’t come into the industry having that, certainly their wealth and the people that they’ve had access to, should eventually cause them to deal with that reality. I definitely do not say that a person deserves what they got, because they may have committed the same mistakes that millions of people have before them. There may be more public consequences to the image and their career…
AM: Because of their level of visibility…
CM: …because of their level of visibility but I don’t share the view of many people who believe that the rappers are getting what they deserve and that our people are getting what they deserve when they get caught up in the criminal justice system.
AM: There’s a precedent throughout history for Italians and Jews, the Irish taking ill-gotten gains or what could possibly be considered questionable gains from financial dealings and investing in legitimate businesses. Is there a precedent within Hip Hop for this? From the perspective of being a commentator on these types of issues, do you think this is positive or negative?
CM: Well, it’s a great question. I think a point of reference in Hip Hop would be for us to listen to "Drug Dealer" by KRS-One. KRS-One dealt forthrightly with the historical context in which immigrant and ethnic communities have taken revenue and wealth that they’ve created illegally and then transferred that into a legal, worthwhile organizations, businesses and forms of employment for their own. It’s happened with the Jewish community, the Irish community, the Italian community. I can run down the list of ethnic kinship systems that revolved around illegal activity and then eventually over time, there was a transition into what’s called legal activity. This is nothing new. Economists study it all the time. People can look at a very good book,"History: The Human Gamble," by Reuven Brenner. He has written another book called "Labyrinths of Prosperity," that deals with these dynamics and I think it’s very instructive when you look at some of those who may have been convicted criminals or may have been street entrepreneurs who took that money and then put it into the entertainment industry.
AM: There seems to be a pattern of these large business empires being brought up on RICO charges tying them into this and that. Other than of course having the correct documentation and attention to detail, what ways can the artists insulate and protect themselves from this legal harassment?
CM: Well, back on the responsibility point, I think at a certain point the artist has to be honest with what image they project. If you’re a wealthy artist, then you’re getting your money from legitimate business activity, why would you continue to promote, street hustling? Certainly, the hustling mentality is worthwhile as far as the entrepreneurial spirit but if you have a clothing line, you have a barbershop, you have a record label, why would you keep pointing your brothers and sisters to selling crack? What artists should do to protect themselves, is to watch what they champion and value and place in their music. Second thing is, artists really need to connect with their communities. They need to connect at a very grass roots level with their social organizations, their religious institutions, their grass roots organizations, their educational systems, because if you really are a boss or a mayor and are trying to aspire to be a power broker, you have to be firmly rooted in your community. I think artists would find that they would get out of trouble a lot quicker if they had the full weight support of their community and certain institutions and opinion leaders in support of them. Being righteous, being plugged into the proper institutions, making the right donations even, making the right moves and building a strong team of advisors around you is probably the best protection for a Hip Hop artist.
AM: Alright, very good Brother Cedric.
CM: Thank you so much, Brother, it’s an honor.
AM: Alright. As-Salaam Alaikum!
CM: Walaikum Salaam!
CM: Well, let’s start with their own words. Right around the year 2001, 2002, the New York newspapers and then MTV, began to report that there did exist inside of the New York police department a special unit devoted just to the Hip Hop community. They tried to deny it at first, and then eventually, the New York City police acknowledged that it was factual. Their own position is that there is a unique level and peculiar level of violence in Hip Hop music and in the industry, and that there are ties to street organizations that warrant special attention in order to prevent feuds from taking place, extortion, acts of violence, and murders.
That’s what the New York police department has said and then, as you know brother, it came out last year in the Miami Herald, Nicole White, Evelyn McDonald and another sister wrote an article exposing that the Miami Beach police department kept 6" thick dossiers on Hip Hop artists that came out of New York that stayed in Miami. The Miami police gave the same reason that they were concerned about the safety of the artists and therefore they had to pay special attention to them. But what wasn’t reported and didn’t come out is that the letterhead for the documents in this dossier that the Miami police had, were from the DEA. Is this really about protecting artists when you have DEA letterhead involved? And then, I want to really emphasize this brother, because I have to say I was one, to the best of my knowledge I’m the only one that actually wrote about these hearings the way I did. In the year 2000, I was actually present at Congress for the hearing surrounding the Rap A Lot investigation.
The Houston police department, the IRS, the DEA and the FBI, all had James Prince and the rapper Scarface and really the whole 5th Ward of Houston, under surveillance, in their hearings. I’m sitting right there. They’re giving me paperwork. I’m actually able to see who the undercover agents were. They admit that they had close to 400 informants inside of the 5th Ward that were related to this investigation. So, I think eventually they arrested Scarface on some possession of marijuana charge. Does that really warrant 400 informants and FBI, DEA, the IRS? I just want to give you their rationale so you can start to see some of the holes and some of the red flags that should go up when agencies say they’re trying to protect Hip Hop artists and yet, in the case of Notorious BIG when they’re literally following him at the time that he’s shot, they can’t point you to a suspect. There’s been no conviction in the murder of 2PAC or Biggie.
AM: It would be extremely naïve to think that if they had the 400 agents and officials in Houston, that this wasn’t being duplicated in some way in other major markets where you have many rappers who live and conduct business. Is that correct?
CM: Yes. And the context for that is J. Edgar Hoover. I think in the ‘60s he had, I think 3,300 informants. They called it "the ghetto listening post." "The ghetto listening post," was an informant program that the FBI ran to get people in the inner cities to infiltrate Black, progressive organizations. So, it’s the same, the tactics are absolutely the same, if you look at this. But I think the smoking gun, so to speak, came last year with the Miami investigation and some of the questions that the police were not able to, and the DEA were not able to answer. And some of those questions were not posed properly but again, I did not write the series saying that I was going to definitively prove anything. I just said that I was raising some questions and as I wrote, with each passing year, more and more evidence came to support the validity of the thesis that I put forward.
AM: What responsibility do the rappers have to try to keep themselves out of the legal system?
CM: Well, they have a personal responsibility to do what’s right and proper and to not do anything illegal that conflicts with their belief system. I don’t think that’s necessarily a rapper responsibility, that’s a human responsibility but what I would say is that I think that the artist should be exceptionally sensitive to the fact that they have a disproportionate amount of influence on the thinking of young people and even older people who admire them. I just think that the artists should have a knowledge of history, greater sensitivity and if they didn’t come into the industry having that, certainly their wealth and the people that they’ve had access to, should eventually cause them to deal with that reality. I definitely do not say that a person deserves what they got, because they may have committed the same mistakes that millions of people have before them. There may be more public consequences to the image and their career…
AM: Because of their level of visibility…
CM: …because of their level of visibility but I don’t share the view of many people who believe that the rappers are getting what they deserve and that our people are getting what they deserve when they get caught up in the criminal justice system.
AM: There’s a precedent throughout history for Italians and Jews, the Irish taking ill-gotten gains or what could possibly be considered questionable gains from financial dealings and investing in legitimate businesses. Is there a precedent within Hip Hop for this? From the perspective of being a commentator on these types of issues, do you think this is positive or negative?
CM: Well, it’s a great question. I think a point of reference in Hip Hop would be for us to listen to "Drug Dealer" by KRS-One. KRS-One dealt forthrightly with the historical context in which immigrant and ethnic communities have taken revenue and wealth that they’ve created illegally and then transferred that into a legal, worthwhile organizations, businesses and forms of employment for their own. It’s happened with the Jewish community, the Irish community, the Italian community. I can run down the list of ethnic kinship systems that revolved around illegal activity and then eventually over time, there was a transition into what’s called legal activity. This is nothing new. Economists study it all the time. People can look at a very good book,"History: The Human Gamble," by Reuven Brenner. He has written another book called "Labyrinths of Prosperity," that deals with these dynamics and I think it’s very instructive when you look at some of those who may have been convicted criminals or may have been street entrepreneurs who took that money and then put it into the entertainment industry.
AM: There seems to be a pattern of these large business empires being brought up on RICO charges tying them into this and that. Other than of course having the correct documentation and attention to detail, what ways can the artists insulate and protect themselves from this legal harassment?
CM: Well, back on the responsibility point, I think at a certain point the artist has to be honest with what image they project. If you’re a wealthy artist, then you’re getting your money from legitimate business activity, why would you continue to promote, street hustling? Certainly, the hustling mentality is worthwhile as far as the entrepreneurial spirit but if you have a clothing line, you have a barbershop, you have a record label, why would you keep pointing your brothers and sisters to selling crack? What artists should do to protect themselves, is to watch what they champion and value and place in their music. Second thing is, artists really need to connect with their communities. They need to connect at a very grass roots level with their social organizations, their religious institutions, their grass roots organizations, their educational systems, because if you really are a boss or a mayor and are trying to aspire to be a power broker, you have to be firmly rooted in your community. I think artists would find that they would get out of trouble a lot quicker if they had the full weight support of their community and certain institutions and opinion leaders in support of them. Being righteous, being plugged into the proper institutions, making the right donations even, making the right moves and building a strong team of advisors around you is probably the best protection for a Hip Hop artist.
AM: Alright, very good Brother Cedric.
CM: Thank you so much, Brother, it’s an honor.
AM: Alright. As-Salaam Alaikum!
CM: Walaikum Salaam!
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