Questions and Statements about God...

[Extermination]

Your question is too broad and contains too many variables.

I don't think religion should count towards the scientific understanding of society, theocratic governments don't tend to work well anyways.

Focus on the direct needs of the human race before attempting to restore spiritual faith, if it hasn't already been lost in poverty-stricken conditions.

 

[phanatron]

Then what are our answers to the issues of the world? What are we doing to identify the problems faced and come to conclusions that will benefit mankind as a whole? Are we making any progress or are things getting worse?

God has never been the answer to the 'world's problems. There is no murder in the jungle, no rape in the wild, no corruption amongst animals. The problems that human face are because we are 'social' creatures. We solve problems not because a god demands it of us but because in order to have a functioning, productive society there must be rules. The idea of a god has been used to establish whose rules are best or to give some sense of authority but we are at a point in our own history that we recognize law without God. No one is petitioning God to figure out what the speed limit should be, how high should taxes be set, or whether we should have mail service on Saturdays. All of these things are the product of a society that has grown and adapted to fit the needs of the people that live within. God doesn't exist and we don't need 'him'.

 

[alissowack]

Most world problems are not moral problems. World hunger can be couched in moral terms but the solution to the problem has nothing to do with morals. It has everything to do with finding ways to increase the world food supply. These increases would result from pragmatic decisions.

The reality is we have drug-dealers because it often a good choice. If the penalty, fully weighed, is not seen as too cumbersome compared to the rewards then it is a pragmatic choice.

You are right in not all decisions are moral. The solution to some of them are quite simple...like hunger. However, there is the dilemma that everyone who eats is not doing so because they are hungry. Greed may be more a factor than being without food. People would want more than their share. How do you stop people from being greedy when it comes to food? Just as there are those who are greedy, there are those who are selfish with food. How do you stop someone from being that way?

Being a drug dealer may be good for the pushers, but what about the fiends? What about the families of those fiends? There may be some families that could care less, but what about those who care and the injustice they may feel towards the drug dealers?

 

[sickbizzle]

this is a strange and interesting topic, it's one of the few things i remember as a kid going to church because it used to disturb me as a child.

i remember it was common that they mentioned "the blood of a lamb" and all these references to sacrificing sheep. wtf was all that about? what is killing a lamb for god supposed to do? shit used to disturb me i was probably only 6 or 7 years old, thankfully the last time i been to church was around then too.

 

[And Step]

A sad an lonely entity? If the majority of the bible gods creations chooses Satan (or just goes to hell), wouldn't that mean Satan was more successful at convincing people to join him than the bible and all his identities?
I mean what if the world turned it's back on the bible god, what will he do? Drown us all? Send us all the hell? Make satan's army even bigger?

I'm just saying.

He would be us and we would be him. God and Satan are minds of men. Just in different directions.

 

[The_African]

God lost

,,,,

 

[The True Flesh]

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

T/S You make a good point. If the devil claims more souls than God.......I guess that really would be a loss. But that's not the case, victory belongs to God. Read all about it in the Bible.

.......all He does is win.......literally /no Khaled

PEACE

 

[The GMW]

It's one of the first things that made me start questioning Christianity as well, and to this day I have never seen anyone even attempt to come up with a direct and reasonable answer. It's always "God works in mysterious ways" and "we petty mortals are not meant to know". I mean, that shouldn't surprise me... there's really no logical way to justify it.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

It's one of the first things that made me start questioning Christianity as well, and to this day I have never seen anyone even attempt to come up with a direct and reasonable answer. It's always "God works in mysterious ways" and "we petty mortals are not meant to know". I mean, that shouldn't surprise me... there's really no logical way to justify it.

LOL. Typical. You give an answer and because the answer is truth, the person refuses to accept it. Go figure.

I'll let Jack deal with you......

[video=youtube;UXoNE14U_zM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM[/video]

 

[sickbizzle]

sooooo.... why do we slaughter lambs for God? i must have missed where someone actually addressed the topic.

 

[kingjust627]

There is nothing wrong with having feelings about the issues of the world especially if it compels you to do what is right. If someone sees somebody hungry, then there has to be some felt need to want to give food. However, not everyone feels this way. Some would rather see a person starve and may not be for calloused reasons. Why be that way when it is the right thing to do?

How do we speak to the issues of rape and murder if the victims don't get justice whether the courts judge wrongly or they don't find the murderer or rapist?

Feelings do get in the way... just like the bishop preventing a child from going to a private school because the parents are gay. The bishops feelings toward the issue prevent the child from getting an education from an establishment from which the parents deem it as sufficient.

I agree, but we don't hand homeless people bag-o lunches, they want money. Only when there is a line, and a mass feeding would those feelings really apply. So individually, meh, it's up to that person.

On the issues of rape and murder... well, me personally, if it is undeniable that a person did the crime and was not properly served justice, I guess the law abiding citizen in me would come out.

 

[Baby7776]

Bottom line is there is no answer. some people choose to use commen sense and logic in there everyday life, and then totally turn it off when it comes to religion. worst part is they see nothing wrong with that. if i bring up hitler, they would talk about how much of a monster he was. Go into the bible and read about say the destruction of jericho by joshua and they see nothing wrong because god pressed the button. Just give up on getting an answer its just going to come down to talking around the question. you know it doesnt make sense and thats all that matters. i doubt god will punish you for trying to find an answer to something that just doesnt sit..... nevermind he probably will. just shut up and follow blindly, dont ask no questions! Faith, either learn to have it or suffer. get down or lay down

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

sooooo.... why do we slaughter lambs for God? i must have missed where someone actually addressed the topic.

I've given the answer already. But here is a more in depth break down given by gotquestions.org

Question: "Why did God require animal sacrifices in the Old Testament?"

Answer: God required animal sacrifices to provide temporary forgiveness of sins and to foreshadow the perfect and complete sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10). Animal sacrifice is an important theme found throughout Scripture because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). When Adam and Eve sinned, animals were killed by God to provide clothing for them (Genesis 3:21). Cain and Abel brought sacrifices to the Lord. Cain's was unacceptable because he brought fruit, while Abel's was acceptable because it was the “firstborn of his flock” (Genesis 4:4-5). After the flood receded, Noah sacrificed animals to God (Genesis 8:20-21).

God commanded the nation of Israel to perform numerous sacrifices according to certain procedures prescribed by God. First, the animal had to be spotless. Second, the person offering the sacrifice had to identify with the animal. Third, the person offering the animal had to inflict death upon it. When done in faith, this sacrifice provided forgiveness of sins. Another sacrifice called for on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus 16, demonstrates forgiveness and the removal of sin. The high priest was to take two male goats for a sin offering. One of the goats was sacrificed as a sin offering for the people of Israel (Leviticus 16:15), while the other goat was released into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22). The sin offering provided forgiveness, while the other goat provided the removal of sin.

Why, then, do we no longer offer animal sacrifices today? Animal sacrifices have ended because Jesus Christ was the ultimate and perfect sacrifice. John the Baptist recognized this when he saw Jesus coming to be baptized and said, “Look, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). You may be asking yourself, why animals? What did they do wrong? That is the point—since the animals did no wrong, they died in place of the one performing the sacrifice. Jesus Christ also did no wrong but willingly gave Himself to die for the sins of mankind (1 Timothy 2:6). Jesus Christ took our sin upon Himself and died in our place. As 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Through faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross, we can receive forgiveness.

In summation, animal sacrifices were commanded by God so that the individual could experience forgiveness of sin. The animal served as a substitute—that is, the animal died in place of the sinner, but only temporarily, which is why the sacrifices needed to be offered over and over. Animal sacrifices have stopped with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrificial substitute once for all time (Hebrews 7:27) and is now the only mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). Animal sacrifices foreshadowed Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf. The only basis on which an animal sacrifice could provide forgiveness of sins is Christ who would sacrifice Himself for our sins, providing the forgiveness that animal sacrifices could only illustrate and foreshadow.

 

[alissowack]

Your question is too broad and contains too many variables.

I don't think religion should count towards the scientific understanding of society, theocratic governments don't tend to work well anyways.

Focus on the direct needs of the human race before attempting to restore spiritual faith, if it hasn't already been lost in poverty-stricken conditions.

I'm not suggesting in this thread that God is an option or that a theocratic government is going to make the world a better place. I'm just seeing how these issues would be resolved if God (or religion) was never a thought.

 

[alissowack]

Feelings do get in the way... just like the bishop preventing a child from going to a private school because the parents are gay. The bishops feelings toward the issue prevent the child from getting an education from an establishment from which the parents deem it as sufficient.

I agree, but we don't hand homeless people bag-o lunches, they want money. Only when there is a line, and a mass feeding would those feelings really apply. So individually, meh, it's up to that person.

On the issues of rape and murder... well, me personally, if it is undeniable that a person did the crime and was not properly served justice, I guess the law abiding citizen in me would come out.

Is every feeling that "gets in the way" bad? I would like to think that when people do give to the homeless, that it is not just some heartless deed...even if lobster and shrimp is given; that maybe the people doing the giving actually enjoy knowing they can help even if all they can give is a bag lunch.

As far as that bishop goes, I was trying to leave religion out of it but it does bring up the issues of morality. What is right and wrong and what can be done so that everyone obeys?

It's a nice thought to think that when some sees a crime that their first reaction is to report it. What if you are pressured to keep quiet for fear of your life?

 

[The GMW]

“without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22).

Why? That's what I'm asking and what this whole topic is about. Why can there be no forgiveness without the shedding of blood? If God is willing to forgive someone who sinned and then killed an animal, why not just forgive without the bloodshed? What's the point? Why did something have to die?

See, I could understand if God declared that if someone sinned, that sinner had to die. That would make him merciless, but it would be a sensible thing for a merciless being to do. But then you add this provision: if someone sins, something has to die, be it the sinner or an animal or the son of God. Where is his logic in requiring death -- not the death of the sinner, but simply death in general -- before bestowing forgiveness? What value does death have to God? People say that the penalty of sin is death, but a penalty is not really a penalty if someone else can step in and take it for you. If God is willing to accept the death of a third party as sufficient payment for the forgiveness of a sinner, then he is not interested in punishing the sinner -- he is only interested in death. That seems uncharacteristic for an all-loving god.

Thanks for attempting a response without the "God cannot be comprehended by us mere mortals" stuff. Please continue to do the same.

 

[alissowack]

God has never been the answer to the 'world's problems. There is no murder in the jungle, no rape in the wild, no corruption amongst animals. The problems that human face are because we are 'social' creatures. We solve problems not because a god demands it of us but because in order to have a functioning, productive society there must be rules. The idea of a god has been used to establish whose rules are best or to give some sense of authority but we are at a point in our own history that we recognize law without God. No one is petitioning God to figure out what the speed limit should be, how high should taxes be set, or whether we should have mail service on Saturdays. All of these things are the product of a society that has grown and adapted to fit the needs of the people that live within. God doesn't exist and we don't need 'him'.

In this thread, I'm not suggesting that God is the answer or even an option. If we need rules in order to function, then why do we break the rules? Rapists are not depended on the rules in order to function. Murderers get along just fine...especially if they don't get caught. There are people out there living the life of crime and they are doing way better than a person who is "going by the book". Why is that? We would be better off not having government...unless we really have a conscious for the rules but it is only applicable when it allows us to have our way.

 

[alissowack]

But there is still hope and a chance that GOD is a possibility. Thats all that really matters at the end of the day.... for those theist out their

What is that "hope"? What has God given to make people have hope...and whether or not it is hope at all?

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Why? That's what I'm asking and what this whole topic is about. Why can there be no forgiveness without the shedding of blood? If God is willing to forgive someone who sinned and then killed an animal, why not just forgive without the bloodshed? What's the point? Why did something have to die?

See, I could understand if God declared that if someone sinned, that sinner had to die. That would make him merciless, but it would be a sensible thing for a merciless being to do. But then you add this provision: if someone sins, something has to die, be it the sinner or an animal or the son of God. Where is his logic in requiring death -- not the death of the sinner, but simply death in general -- before bestowing forgiveness? What value does death have to God? People say that the penalty of sin is death, but a penalty is not really a penalty if someone else can step in and take it for you. If God is willing to accept the death of a third party as sufficient payment for the forgiveness of a sinner, then he is not interested in punishing the sinner -- he is only interested in death. That seems uncharacteristic for an all-loving god.

Thanks for attempting a response without the "God cannot be comprehended by us mere mortals" stuff. Please continue to do the same.

You seem to be forgetting who is at fault here my friend. You see, we (mankind) have sinned against a Holy, Righteous, Just, and Perfect God. God doesn't owe us anything my brother. What we truly deserve is everlasting fire for our sinful nature. And if God did decide to send every last human being to hell, He would still be right and just in doing so. The angels would still surround His throne and cry out, "Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory." (Isaiah 6:3)

We are the ones who are at fault here my brother, not God. We are the ones who have committed actions that are totally contrary to the nature of a holy God. So all these assumptions that your coming up with are worthless my friend. We are the sinners brother. We are the ones who are alienated from a Holy God because of our sins.

God made this universe, God made this earth, and God made all of us. By Him being the Creator, He is also the rule maker. God made mankind perfect. Death was never an issue until MANKIND disobeyed Him. God told Adam and Eve the consequences for disobedience. Now how can God be blamed if He clearly established the rules in the beginning? Mankind is responsible for death. Death came because of MANKIND. Death did not come because God has an infatuation with it.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

Lets look at the facts my brother. Facts which are based upon scripture and played out in real life. Everybody dies because everybody sinned. Death is the consequence for sin. So how can God be charged with folly, when it's mankind that introduced the curse of death to begin with?

But thank God that He is merciful. God has made a way for us to be reconciled back to Him. He says that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. You either take it or leave it my friend. The "why" is completely irrelevant. What your asking is equivalent to you being convicted of a crime that you actually committed, but yet the judge still lets you go free. But here you are, still in the courtroom asking "why did you let me go your honor?"; instead of thanking the judge for his mercy. I mean come on my brother.

God says, "This is the way, walk ye in it" (Isaiah 30:21) Now you can either take the way that God has provided, which is through Jesus Christ, or you can take your own way. But God warns over and over again about the dangers of leaning upon your own understanding. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." (Proverbs 14:12)

Just as Adam and Eve had directions, God has given us directions. You can either accept and follow the directions, or you can reject the directions. I mean, if your in New York and your GPS tells you to go South in order to get to Miami, but yet you think you can go north in order to get to Miami, are you going to blame the GPS for giving you wrong directions when you wind up in Canada? My brother, No one will be able to blame God for being unrighteous on the day of judgment. He has made a way, it's up to us to follow that way. God bless.

 

[Rock_Well]

I'mgoing, basically he's asking why does God require blood for forgiveness. Why not just offer the gift of forgiveness without the payment of blood?