Questions and Statements about God...

[toktaylor]

1. Yes, I know this.

2. Yes, I know this.

3. You haven't answered my question yet. Is the story metaphorical?

There is no reason why this could not be a true story." However, I believe that an unbiased examination of this story reveals that it is a parable, and that there are many reasons why it could not be an actual narrative detailing punishment of sinners going on in hell at that time.

As a literal event, this story brings us to many absurd conclusions. For example, without symbolism, it implies that the rich man went to hell because he was literally clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. There is no mention of him committing sin in any way, or even of being uncharitable to the beggar. It simply states that he had his riches in this world, and the beggar has his in the next. It also implies that Lazarus was blessed because he was at the rich man's gate, full of sores, and begging crumbs while the dogs came and licked his sores. If all this indeed were to be interpreted as a literal narrative, the only conclusion that we could draw based on what's written here, is that beggars and them who have sores, go to heaven, and anyone wearing fine linen colored purple or who is rich and has means, are destined for torment in hell! Of course, that makes no sense, but without a symbolic meaning, this is the only conclusion from the passages we can reach. But the Bible shows us that many righteous men were very rich. Righteous Joseph, the son of Israel, held the treasures of the Pharaoh, giving to whom he would, and was arrayed like a royal prince [1] as second man in the realm. Again, righteous Job was God blessed and a God-fearing man, and yet he was also so rich[2], with as many as 7,000 animals, he was spoken of as was the greatest of all the men of the east.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

There is no reason why this could not be a true story." However, I believe that an unbiased examination of this story reveals that it is a parable, and that there are many reasons why it could not be an actual narrative detailing punishment of sinners going on in hell at that time.

As a literal event, this story brings us to many absurd conclusions. For example, without symbolism, it implies that the rich man went to hell because he was literally clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. There is no mention of him committing sin in any way, or even of being uncharitable to the beggar. It simply states that he had his riches in this world, and the beggar has his in the next. It also implies that Lazarus was blessed because he was at the rich man's gate, full of sores, and begging crumbs while the dogs came and licked his sores. If all this indeed were to be interpreted as a literal narrative, the only conclusion that we could draw based on what's written here, is that beggars and them who have sores, go to heaven, and anyone wearing fine linen colored purple or who is rich and has means, are destined for torment in hell! Of course, that makes no sense, but without a symbolic meaning, this is the only conclusion from the passages we can reach. But the Bible shows us that many righteous men were very rich. Righteous Joseph, the son of Israel, held the treasures of the Pharaoh, giving to whom he would, and was arrayed like a royal prince [1] as second man in the realm. Again, righteous Job was God blessed and a God-fearing man, and yet he was also so rich[2], with as many as 7,000 animals, he was spoken of as was the greatest of all the men of the east.

The fact that Jesus Christ specifically named Lazarus gives enough credence that it was a true literal story. Parables don't name specific names. Look it up.

 

[toktaylor]

Thanks but no thanks. Screw the illuminati. It's nothing but the devil anyways. They are powerless against the Al-Mighty! The word of God is tried, true, and tested. Nothing can compare to it because it is the eternal word of God. I will believe God and His word before anything and everything else. NO MATTER WHAT!

"let God be true, but every man a liar;" Romans 3:4

I would advise you to start reading the word of God for yourself so that you can come to a knowledge of the truth. The truth being, that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be, He did what He came to do, and He is coming again to establish His eternal kingdom on earth. Give glory to the king my friend for He is good. Hallelujah!

You have been truly programmed friend, the difference with us is that i have read the bible, however, i was open to seek other knowledge/reading material as well. GOd do not want you to live in fear my friend...free your mind and your soul.

 

[toktaylor]

The fact that Jesus Christ specifically named Lazarus gives enough credence that it was a true literal story. Parables don't name specific names. Look it up.

"The Greek word parable [parabole], means a similitude, or something which is in comparison, like unto something else. In other words, a story of one thing which is an analogy of something else. Often seen as a narrative in symbolism, a story from the human perspective which has a deeper spiritual meaning (conveying a moral), in comparison to this symbolism. The deeper spiritual truth in this parable of Luke chapter 16, is the nation of Israel".

"A parable is a succinct story, in prose or verse, that illustrates a lesson. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters. It is a type of analogy".[1] - Wikipedia

It does not say that a name cannot be assigned to the charcter.

Titles of the Main Parables:

Fig tree

Good Samaritan

Invited to the Supper

Laborers in the vineyards

Lazarus

Man who receives a kingdom

Merchants

Talents

Ten Virgins

The Sower

The man who went into another country

 

[toktaylor]

To comment further on the parable of Lazarus:

If this is an actual event, then all of these things that Christ taught here, of necessity must be absolutely factual. And if all the points are not factual, then we must view this story as an analogy Christ used to teach a larger spiritual truth. i.e., a Parable! Considering this, if hell is factually as it is taught in this story, then we who are Saved will both be able to view our loved ones who were not Saved, and watch as they are tormented in the flame, begging us for water. But scripture tells us clearly that in heaven, we will have no more pain, sorrow, or crying. Again, we have an inconsistency when we attempt to read this in a literal, non-parabolic manner.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

You have been truly programmed friend, the difference with us is that i have read the bible, however, i was open to seek other knowledge/reading material as well. GOd do not want you to live in fear my friend...free your mind and your soul.

I have been freed my friend. Freed from the bondage of this world. If any man be in Christ, He is a new creation. Old things have passed away, Behold, all things have become new! "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST, THANK GOD AL-MIGHTY I AM FREE AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

To comment further on the parable of Lazarus:
If this is an actual event, then all of these things that Christ taught here, of necessity must be absolutely factual. And if all the points are not factual, then we must view this story as an analogy Christ used to teach a larger spiritual truth. i.e., a Parable! Considering this, if hell is factually as it is taught in this story, then we who are Saved will both be able to view our loved ones who were not Saved, and watch as they are tormented in the flame, begging us for water. But scripture tells us clearly that in heaven, we will have no more pain, sorrow, or crying. Again, we have an inconsistency when we attempt to read this in a literal, non-parabolic manner.

NO. Your taking stuff out of context to try to fit your meaning of the story. No matter which way you twist it, it always sounds wrong my friend. No where in the story does it say that loved ones can see the rich man burning in torment. Abraham tells the rich man that there is a "GREAT GULF FIXED". He can't cross over, nor can people in paradise cross over. There is no hope for the wicked in hell. Re-read the story and tell me if I am wrong.

 

[toktaylor]

NO. Your taking stuff out of context to try to fit your meaning of the story. No matter which way you twist it, it always sounds wrong my friend. No where in the story does it say that loved ones can see the rich man burning in torment. Abraham tells the rich man that there is a "GREAT GULF FIXED". He can't cross over, nor can people in paradise cross over. There is no hope for the wicked in hell. Re-read the story and tell me if I am wrong.

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell,c where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

How great could the distant be if he could shout/talk to him, secondly a chasm is a deep opening in the earth's surface. It was propable too wide and too deep to jump/walk across however it was near enough that they could see each other and engaged in conversation. do the math...

 

[toktaylor]

NOT DONE YET:

Moreover, the coveted place of Lazarus is Abraham's bosom. Again, if this were a literal narrative, the bosom of Abraham must also also be literal, the place where the Saved desire to sit, just as where the Rich man is, must be the place where the unsaved will sit. Thus it makes Abraham sit with millions of sick, poor, sore ridden beggars on his bosom. The truth however is much more believable. Namely, the sign or signification that Abraham is a father of many nations, thus the figure of Lazarus in his bosom. i.e., it is a allegory, a parable picturing the seed of Abraham, the Saved.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell,c where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

How great could the distant be if he could shout/talk to him, secondly a chasm is a deep opening in the earth's surface. It was propable too wide and too deep to jump/walk across however it was near enough that they could see each other and engaged in conversation. do the math...

This story took place during the OT times. Before Jesus Christ ascended back to heaven and led captivity captive, there was a place called abrahams bosom where the righteous went and hades where the wicked went at death. The story tells us that those in torement could not pass over to those who were in paradise, and vice versa. No where in the story does it tell us of anybody in paradise weeping over those in torment.

Flash foward to now though. No longer is there an abrahams bosom. It was emptied out when Jesus Christ ascended back to heaven. Now those who die in the Lord are absent from the body and present with the Lord. Where is that at? Well, Where is Jesus at? In Heaven. The wicked however are still in hades awaiting the day of judgment. So yeah, there is still a great gulf fixed. The wicked will never be remembered by the righteous after the great white throne judgment. After the final judgment is when God will wipe away every tear. Read revelation for knowledge.

 

[toktaylor]

This story took place during the OT times. Before Jesus Christ ascended back to heaven and led captivity captive, there was a place called abrahams bosom where the righteous went and hades where the wicked went at death. The story tells us that those in torement could not pass over to those who were in paradise, and vice versa. No where in the story does it tell us of anybody in paradise weeping over those in torment.

Flash foward to now though. No longer is there an abrahams bosom. It was emptied out when Jesus Christ ascended back to heaven. Now those who die in the Lord are absent from the body and present with the Lord. Where is that at? Well, Where is Jesus at? In Heaven. The wicked however are still in hades awaiting the day of judgment. So yeah, there is still a great gulf fixed. The wicked will never be remembered by the righteous after the great white throne judgment. After the final judgment is when God will wipe away every tear. Read revelation for knowledge.

The place called Abraham Bosom spoke to the rich man..literally spoke...ok.....

 

[toktaylor]

To address your implication or question, "why would Lazarus be identified by name, if this was a parable?" However, we could likewise use the reverse of this and ask, "Why would the rich man not be identified by name, if this wasn't a parable?" It's the same tactic, and neither has any sound validity. Lazarus is named because Jesus assigns spiritual significance to names, and there is nothing in scripture which would preclude Him from doing so in a parable. That would be like saying that the figure of Elijah coming to prepare the way of the Lord, cannot be John the Baptist, because Elijah was "named," meaning it has to be literal. But we know that this is nonsense, as Jesus said, "and if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come -Matt 11:14," showing us that John was the fulfillment of that figure. Spiritually (luke 1:17) or allegorically He was Elijah, but not literally. So this arbitrary rule that because someone is named in an allegory, it must be literal, is without validation.

The answer is simple, Jesus uses names to signify some "spiritual" truths. The name Lazarus is from the Hebrew, Elazar, [el] meaning God, and ['azar], meaning hedged or helped. i.e., protected of God. It has nothing to do with Abraham literally holding the body of a man named Lazarus in his literal bosom, it is a "signification" of the God helped seed of Abraham, the people of the inheritance. As always, man tends to look too much to the physical, and fails to see the heavenly or Spiritual. First of all, Lazarus was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. Abraham is a figure of God there, and Lazarus, the child of God in His bosom. That is why the name and bosom of Abraham is also used. To signify the Children of the promise....peace!

 

[BlackxChild]

Thats why He gave us His son. If you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that He was raised from the dead, you will be saved. By faith you must accept this truth. If not, than you are still dead in your sins waiting to give an account on the day of judgment for them.

So he sent Jesus on a suicide mission to say "now that u hung my son that I sent to die I can forgive u" God must've hated Jesus more than the Jews.....

 

[BlackxChild]

No honestly read this passage of scripture and tell me if this is methaphorical.

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell,c where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

If my brother rose from the dead and told me about god I'll believe.... God is a dumbass.

 

[TX_Made713]

Bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out

I asked you a simple question that your dodging for no reason. What validates the bible being truly the word of god outside of the bible says....and you reply by saying read the book..

give me a real answer..or if you MUST post from the bible, post a scripture..dont take the easy way out of the question

You have been truly programmed friend, the difference with us is that i have read the bible, however, i was open to seek other knowledge/reading material as well. GOd do not want you to live in fear my friend...free your mind and your soul.

why does everyone continue to go with the same okiedoke with this nigga heavenru. his responses are always quotes from the bible. his stance isnt going to change no matter how logical you present an argument to him. this is like trying to bend titanium with your bare hands...not happening

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

So he sent Jesus on a suicide mission to say "now that u hung my son that I sent to die I can forgive u" God must've hated Jesus more than the Jews.....

Is that the best you can come up with my brother? I know God gave you a brain because you can type. But good grief, you can come up with something better than that.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

If my brother rose from the dead and told me about god I'll believe.... God is a dumbass.

31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Jesus rose from the dead and you still don't believe!

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I'm not asking you what the Bible says. What is important is what you think.

What I think doesn't matter. What matters is what "Thus saith the LORD".

Let God be true and all men liars. God is the only one who can convey truth to you my dear. Open up your heart and receive the eternal word of God into your spirit! God bless.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I asked you a simple question that your dodging for no reason. What validates the bible being truly the word of god outside of the bible says....and you reply by saying read the book..

give me a real answer..or if you MUST post from the bible, post a scripture..dont take the easy way out of the question

why does everyone continue to go with the same okiedoke with this nigga heavenru. his responses are always quotes from the bible. his stance isnt going to change no matter how logical you present an argument to him. this is like trying to bend titanium with your bare hands...not happening

I told you to read Romans. The answer your looking for is in there. I can't hold your bottle and change your diaper too my brother. You have to seek the Lord on your own. God bless.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Well, God gave you a brain to use along with eyes that are for reading. I'm sure that Jesus wouldn't mind if you get your own interpretation and view point.

Thats the thing though Princess Jihad. Everybody has their OWN interpretation and view point about EVERYTHING. But not me, I want truth. And when I receive truth, I want to convey that truth to others. Where does truth come from you may ask? Well I'll let God speak for Himself. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

God bless.