DoUwant2go2Heaven
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VIBE86;1821445 said:
I thought you said you read the Bible? Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. I pray that the Lord will lead you back to His eternal word. God bless.
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I thought you said you read the Bible? Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. I pray that the Lord will lead you back to His eternal word. God bless.
DoUwant2go2Heaven?;1821476 said:I thought you said you read the Bible? Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. I pray that the Lord will lead you back to His eternal word. God bless.
So tell me then bro, what exactly does Jesus say about hell? What happens in hell to us?
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Dakari;1821508 said:how do you send yourself to hell? is there a map? a train to take? i dont think anybody says "lets take the elevator down"
You're given a choice, to know God, follow God, worship God and accept Jesus as your savior.
You're told if you DON'T do that, you will "go to hell". So your choice needs to be to follow, if you don't you're sending yourself. You were given a choice.
That's how you send yourself to "hell".
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;1821408 said:Huh? That doesn't even make sense. How can a man, who came up with the idea of EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, be looked at as being better than everybody else? WHAT? He would have been skinned, tared, feathered, and set ablaze for even saying that. People don't want to hear about punishment for wrongdoing. People dont want to hear about consquences for their actions. You have to be kidding me.
The "everslasting punishment" is the part that most people have a problem with it borders on God being sadiistic, a torturer even, that suggest something that Hitler (or man) would have thought of. The bible teaches that GOD performs punishement on mankind (such as the flood) and had some regret/remorse after. So how do you figure on his edorsement of extreme punishement on mankind for all eternity. Why the conflicting characteristics? Again.. I said this is ideas created by MAN.
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VIBE86;1821528 said:You're given a choice, to know God, follow God, worship God and accept Jesus as your savior.
You're told if you DON'T do that, you will "go to hell". So your choice needs to be to follow, if you don't you're sending yourself. You were given a choice.
That's how you send yourself to "hell".
shouldnt god forgive us for not making the right choices?
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fiat_money
New member
Because humans are mortal, they'll likely end up in the graves/pits (or "sheol" in Hebrew); which was often mistranslated as "Hell" in the Christian bible.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven
New member
whar67;1821477 said:God is the all-powerful creator.
He created hell.
He produced the rules for its entry.
He created us with our imperfections.
He judges based on the imperfections he made within us.
However to some believers he is not responsible for his actions.
1. Yes God is the Al-Mighty. "Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens--what can you do? They are deeper than the depths of the grave--what can you know?" Job 11:7-8
2. Yes, God created hell for the devil and his angels. Not for mankind. But because of our rebellion, God has no choice but to execute the punishment for sin in hell for both sinful angels and sinful man. "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41
3. Rejection of Jesus Christ is why people choose to go to hell. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18
4. No. God created man perfect. "26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26-28
5. No. God will judge you based on your deeds. If you will not have Christ as your Savior, you will have Him as your judge. The books will be opened and you will be found lacking.
"13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. " Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
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fiat_money
New member
Indeed. If I make a small boat with a gaping hole in its bottom, and the boat sinks when I place it in a tub of water, I'd be responsible for its sinking.whar67;1821477 said:God is the all-powerful creator.
He created hell.
He produced the rules for its entry.
He created us with our imperfections.
He judges based on the imperfections he made within us.
However to some believers he is not responsible for his actions.
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We have been trained/programmed to fear death. They want us to believe one of a few things: 1) This life is all there is. When you die, you are gone and there is nothing more to it (atheism). 2) There is a Heaven and there is a Hell. This is only true if we believe it is true. The Christian belief in Heaven and Hell is another way to control us. By telling us there is an Eternal Fire after death if you don't choose "the right path" is a way to scare us and lead is into another dogma. 3) Believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't make you free. The "Powers that be"i created all those religions and cults to divide and conquer, to turn man against man in religious wars, and to create a problem, making us ignorant of what is true and what is not. By confusing people with different belief systems, the population is less likely to find their way out of the trap. There is no Hell, except the one we are creating for ourselves, and Heaven is something different from what we're taught. They also realized a long time ago that you can't just create ONE idea and expect everybody to embrace it; you have to have choices. They don't mind us having choices, so long as all our choices lead to nowhere. To understand Heaven and Hell we have to understand who or what God is.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven
New member
VIBE86;1821488 said:So tell me then bro, what exactly does Jesus say about hell? What happens in hell to us?
Mt:5:22: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt:5:29: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt:5:30: And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt:11:23: And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mt:16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mt:18:9: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt:23:15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mt:23:33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mk:9:43: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mk:9:45: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mk:9:47: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Lk:10:15: And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Lk:12:5: But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Lk:16:23: And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Rv:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rv:6:8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rv:20:13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rv:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
j
Mt:5:29: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt:5:30: And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt:11:23: And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mt:16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mt:18:9: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt:23:15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mt:23:33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mk:9:43: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mk:9:45: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mk:9:47: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Lk:10:15: And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Lk:12:5: But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Lk:16:23: And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Rv:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rv:6:8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rv:20:13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rv:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
j
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;1821628 said:Mt:5:22: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt:5:29: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt:5:30: And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt:11:23: And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mt:16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mt:18:9: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt:23:15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mt:23:33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mk:9:43: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mk:9:45: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mk:9:47: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Lk:10:15: And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Lk:12:5: But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Lk:16:23: And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Rv:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rv:6:8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rv:20:13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rv:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
j
Okay, so what is YOUR idea of hell? What do you think it is and consists of? Do you think it's a literal fire pit where we literally burn for eternity?
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Dakari;1821563 said:shouldnt god forgive us for not making the right choices?
If you believe, follow, repent, accept Jesus as your Savior then you are forgiven. That's up to you though. It is said that the "worse sin" of them all is 'knowing God (knowing of him) but not believing.
God cannot forgive you unless you take the route to that.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven
New member
Dakari;1821508 said:how do you send yourself to hell? is there a map? a train to take? i dont think anybody says "lets take the elevator down"
By rejecting the Savior. You have heard about Jesus. So if you die in an unrepentant state, you will be without excuse before God at the great white throne judgment. Everytime you heard about Jesus Christ will be replayed back to you for evidence and everytime you said "No" will be seared into your conscience. You will have no EXCUSE when you stand before God. So stop playing games my brother. Eternity is at stake. This isn't tic-tac-toe. This is eternal life and death.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;1821591 said:2. Yes, God created hell for the devil and his angels. Not for mankind. But because of our rebellion, God has no choice but to execute the punishment for sin in hell for both sinful angels and sinful man. "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41
God had no choice? This places a limit on God's power. If I am confronted with a situation about which I have no choice then someone is dictating terms to me regarding that situation. Since God is All-Powerful this is impossible. He choose to burn people in Hell. he could have created the universe in an entirely different way but instead he choose to create me with the traits that have lead me to deny him and for that I am to suffer for eternity. But God loves me with all his heart!
DoUwant2go2Heaven?;1821591 said:4. No. God created man perfect. "26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26-28
God is all-knowing and All-powerful. He knew when he made man that he would rebel. He could have made he so he would not but he choose to make him rebel then punish him for the action God knew he would make.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven
New member
toktaylor;1821561 said:The "everslasting punishment" is the part that most people have a problem with it borders on God being sadiistic, a torturer even, that suggest something that Hitler (or man) would have thought of. The bible teaches that GOD performs punishement on mankind (such as the flood) and had some regret/remorse after. So how do you figure on his edorsement of extreme punishement on mankind for all eternity. Why the conflicting characteristics? Again.. I said this is ideas created by MAN.
1. God never said that He regretted sending the flood to destroy all flesh. This is EXACTLY what He said. "5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." Genesis 6:5-8
2. God said that the wages of sin is death. I didn't make the rules, He did.
3.
Question: "How is eternity in hell a fair punishment for sin?"
Answer: This is an issue that bothers many people who have an incomplete understanding of three things: the nature of God, the nature of man, and the nature of sin. As fallen, sinful human beings, the nature of God is a difficult concept for us to grasp. We tend to see God as a kind, merciful Being whose love for us overrides and overshadows all His other attributes. Of course God is loving, kind, and merciful, but He is first and foremost a holy and righteous God. So holy is He that He cannot tolerate sin. He is a God whose anger burns against the wicked and disobedient (Isaiah 5:25; Hosea 8:5; Zechariah 10:3). He is not only a loving God—He is love itself! But the Bible also tells us that He hates all manner of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19). And while He is merciful, there are limits to His mercy. “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7).
Humanity is corrupted by sin, and that sin is always directly against God. When David sinned by committing adultery with Bathsheba and having Uriah murdered, he responded with an interesting prayer: “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight…” (Psalm 51:4). Since David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah, how could he claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being (Psalm 90:2). As a result, all sin requires an eternal punishment. God’s holy, perfect, and infinite character has been offended by our sin. Although to our finite minds our sin is limited in time, to God—who is outside of time—the sin He hates goes on and on. Our sin is eternally before Him and must be eternally punished in order to satisfy His holy justice.
No one understands this better than someone in hell. A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.
Like the rich man, every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred. The rich man knew that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. That is why he never protested or questioned being in hell.
The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, and eternal punishment are frightening and disturbing. But it is good that we might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim, there is good news. God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus’ death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin and place our faith in Christ, asking for God’s forgiveness based on Christ’s sacrifice, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided the means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-hell-fair.html
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VIBE86;1821674 said:If you believe, follow, repent, accept Jesus as your Savior then you are forgiven. That's up to you though. It is said that the "worse sin" of them all is 'knowing God (knowing of him) but not believing.
God cannot forgive you unless you take the route to that.
I personally beleive that Jesus as a being was here on Earth, trying to enlighten us. The "Powers that be" have changed the story, trying to tell us that Jesus was the One Son of God, which separates the rest of us from the God Energy and make us less powerful. I don't believe Jesus ever said he was the ONLY son of God. Yes, he was a son of God just like the rest of us, but otherwise, he was a spiritually enlightened being who chose to come here to teach us something. Some people may call him an "Ascended Master". I am sure he is not the only Ascended Master who has walked this Earth trying to enlighten us, and there are quite a few indications that some of these beings are actually here on Earth right now in an effort to guide us in the right direction. This is also the basic belief of the New Age movement, and I believe that to be true, but New Age in general is just another controlled movement to lead us astray. Also, we live in a mathematical Universe, where numbers and symbols actually mean something. If these ascended masters had twelve disciples, you can safely presume there is power in that number.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven
New member
Dakari;1821563 said:shouldnt god forgive us for not making the right choices?
Thats why He gave us His son. If you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that He was raised from the dead, you will be saved. By faith you must accept this truth. If not, than you are still dead in your sins waiting to give an account on the day of judgment for them.
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TX_Made713
New member
DoUwant2go2Heaven?;1821773 said:Thats why He gave us His son. If you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that He was raised from the dead, you will be saved. By faith you must accept this truth. If not, than you are still dead in your sins waiting to give an account on the day of judgment for them.
is there any proof that you will gain entry into heaven by following the bible outside of the bible?
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