Questions and Statements about God...

[kingjust627]

Because of answers like "look around you", "look at the vastness of the universe", "look at all of the complexity"... then because those answers were not really answers but more questions, how can one jump from answering a question with a question to god did it with nothing but a book that is "flawed" because of it's unreliable revisions and so forth, to claim its validity? That to me is the foundation of what I view as the religious take over during the early era's of man. I'm open to possibilities, but all of the spewing from people who claim to know from studying, really don't know. All of those who say they have been spoken to really haven't, there is just no credibility in posits that have not fundamental evidence of it occuring. Now, I do believe that we are not alone. That is a fair assumption BECAUSE of the vastness of this universe. To me, there are more likely hoods of beings from other parts of our universe simply because there isn't some great book speaking of them and what they have supposedly done... if you can understand what I mean. All gods suck, some are cool, but in the end, I feel they are all nothing but empty promises and crutch for the ignorance in humanity.

 

[longmeat]

no real evidence. i use this analogy all the time. do you believe in unicorns? why not? do you believe in the lockness monster? why not? do you believe in the boogey man? why not?

if i don't give credance to those entities because of a lack of evidence, logically i must do the same for a deity. could there be a god? sure. just like there could be unicorn, fairies and the boogey man. I'm just not gonna spend my life worrying if I'm gonna get gorged by his pointy magical horn.

 

[Alkindus]

Lack of evidence. There is no reason to assume the universe was started by a being that has always existed, that simply brings up more questions, like; where did god come from? Obviously, the he exist outside of time argument does not satisfy me.

I don't know if there really is a god, but I choose not to believe in any.

Think about what we call 'reality' real hard and all things do not make sense.It is often said, just try to comprehend something with no beginning and no end. You can't. We cannot question reality, this universe. We cannot comprehend our very own existance( In it's essence).

God doesn't need toe be proven when It is in us. When you dismiss all duality, all absolute feelings and sense of ego etc, fuck all the manmade shit around you and fall back to your essence(meaning reaching spiritual/physical independence). I mean I am your typical business student, I picked the education to 'assure' me getting paid and be independent....this is wrong because I therfor depend on my education and not on myself, so I am not spiritualiy independent nor physical. True independency means being independent from everything manmade....

reach enlightment by reading the diamant sutra, koran, the masnavi, the gnostic work of the 'desertfathers', or simply by taking a glorius shit. Than you will realize that 'god' does exist and you are indeed unlimited energy, when you truelly reached it, it will become just a mind construct, just thinking/hearing something can return you to the enlightment mindstate. God is just a word to explain the unknown. you never know enough so always ask questions.

I remember reading some shit about Moses when he asked to God who his friends were......God showed him a stinking, poor and skinny, living in a oasis full of flies and shit hald dead type of brother.....when Mosis saw him he asked him if he could get him some water,..the broke fella aproved and waited on Mosis and the water.....when Mosis came back the brother was dead.....Mosis started trippin, cursing at God, saying that this is why humanity will never approve of God mercilessness/ . God replied: before you came he solely depended om himself/me. when you came and tempted huim with water he could only think about getting water, therfor setting his mind and body up depending on the water. when he lost independency, he died.

 

[longmeat]

Think about what we call 'reality' real hard and all things do not make sense.It is often said, just try to comprehend something with no beginning and no end. You can't. We cannot question reality, this universe. We cannot comprehend our very own existance( In it's essence).

If we can't comprehend the idea of God, then why do so many people keep trying to put all these attributes on him? Things like love, hate, vengeance, jelousy, and a myriad of other human traits?

God doesn't need toe be proven when It is in us. When you dismiss all duality, all absolute feelings and sense of ego etc, fuck all the manmade shit around you and fall back to your essence(meaning reaching spiritual/physical independence). I mean I am your typical business student, I picked the education to 'assure' me getting paid and be independent....this is wrong because I therfor depend on my education and not on myself, so I am not spiritualiy independent nor physical. True independency means being independent from everything manmade....

son what does that even mean? Of course God has to be proven. I mean damn there's as much proof that there's a god than me saying this universe is a by product of space pirates from the Grand Nebula galaxy who ate some bad space food and diarrhea'd us out. you'd look at me like I'm a mad man if I actually believed that, when there's 0 evidence if this imaginary figure you believe in either.

reach enlightment by reading the diamant sutra, koran, the masnavi, the gnostic work of the 'desertfathers', or simply by taking a glorius shit. Than you will realize that 'god' does exist and you are indeed unlimited energy, when you truelly reached it, it will become just a mind construct, just thinking/hearing something can return you to the enlightment mindstate. God is just a word to explain the unknown. you never know enough so always ask questions.

nigga you smoked some bad weed or something? you sound like one of them niggas that guy high and just start rattling shit off and swear think they be deep as hell.

I remember reading some shit about Moses when he asked to God who his friends were......God showed him a stinking, poor and skinny, living in a oasis full of flies and shit hald dead type of brother.....when Mosis saw him he asked him if he could get him some water,..the broke fella aproved and waited on Mosis and the water.....when Mosis came back the brother was dead.....Mosis started trippin, cursing at God, saying that this is why humanity will never approve of God mercilessness/ . God replied: before you came he solely depended om himself/me. when you came and tempted huim with water he could only think about getting water, therfor setting his mind and body up depending on the water. when he lost independency, he died.

yeah nigga, you high as hell.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Many people are subjected to ownership by their religions. "You do not own yourself, you belong to God!" they tell you. You have to surrender yourself to Jesus. You have to give up control of yourself to your master, priest, mullah, teacher, group will, or whatever wants to dominate you. That is one of the big differences between life and religion. I believe in self ownership and owning up to issues you have yourself created while many of them believe in religious/deity ownership and that they are in control of what you can do, what you are required to believe, even what you are allowed or not allowed to think about. You are their slave. You may be a slave by choice, but a person who chooses to be subjugated is still subjugated. Many people who believe that they have chosen that path freely believe it because they are told that they have to believe that they chose that path freely.

In order to explore reality the way it really is, we need people to be explorers, not followers. Followers don't contribute anything to the exploration of reality. Yes, learning is a fine thing and people do need some learning in order to get started exploring. but I expect that at some point everyone can begin Intellectual Tithing, which is to contribute something to the tree of knowledge. In other words, you figure something out and tell mankind something that we didn't know. You contribute something exciting that we can build upon. Im not here to tell you what to believe. I think everyone should explore reality for themselves. In order to do that, you have to own yourself, to be an individual, to think for yourself, to keep your mind sharp, and to be imaginative and innovative. We need you to be you, not to be us. People always claim that you have to have religion to balance life, says who? Many agnostics and athiests walk among you and do more to help you than God has. Too many people would rather sacrifice knowledge for faith, faith that you hope is right. Imagine the world if our ancestors never owned up and became a slave to God. Where would we be?

I got no idea why I wrote this was just watchin basketball and started havin some thoughts and typed em up, figured I might as well post it no sense in lettin thoughts stay hidden.

 

[KLICHE]

one i've noticed like you mentioned, those really immersed in religion and the religious group that is attached to it, it is as though they become mindless zombies.. common sense, and that previous ability to think twice about things, and question what you hear or view, just goes straight out the window.. and some guy, like a priest, sheikh, whoever, that they listen to and think has all the answers, when they hear hsi view they just go "Yep!" and nod there head liek that is all they have come to know how to behave.. and then when anyone else does decide to challenge something said or question, people are quick to turn from being passive religious dudes, to religious maniacs and want you copping a beating for being simply 'human'

 

[ThaChozenWun]

one i've noticed like you mentioned, those really immersed in religion and the religious group that is attached to it, it is as though they become mindless zombies.. common sense, and that previous ability to think twice about things, and question what you hear or view, just goes straight out the window.. and some guy, like a priest, sheikh, whoever, that they listen to and think has all the answers, when they hear hsi view they just go "Yep!" and nod there head liek that is all they have come to know how to behave.. and then when anyone else does decide to challenge something said or question, people are quick to turn from being passive religious dudes, to religious maniacs and want you copping a beating for being simply 'human'

Real talk I was at the store earlier today, and I bought a 12 pack of gatorade, and my wife was with me and she was like you should just get the powder mix so we aint got all them plastic bottles around cause they dont recycle where I live now, and some dude was like "Brother dont worry about that recycling stuff, when our father sees that the Earth is in trouble he will clear it himself" I just looked at him like.... The fuck??? Its stuff like that, that throws me off religion shit is so damn stupid I have no idea how he could have believed himself. Then the nigga had the nerve to tell me Jesus guided me to the store so he could tell me that so I didnt stress over plastic bottles anymore.

 

[KLICHE]

Real talk I was at the store earlier today, and I bought a 12 pack of gatorade, and my wife was with me and she was like you should just get the powder mix so we aint got all them plastic bottles around cause they dont recycle where I live now, and some dude was like "Brother dont worry about that recycling stuff, when our father sees that the Earth is in trouble he will clear it himself" I just looked at him like.... The fuck??? Its stuff like that, that throws me off religion shit is so damn stupid I have no idea how he could have believed himself. Then the nigga had the nerve to tell me Jesus guided me to the store so he could tell me that so I didnt stress over plastic bottles anymore.

LMMFAO!! sorry man, this was hilarious! this would make a good for a comic strip or something showing the nutty side of the deep religious folk LOL

I would have been like WTF too lol

 

[Rock_Well]

self enslavement is not the solution to living a fulfilling life. spiritually or physically

 

[alissowack]

Everybody is a slave to something. If it's not to God, it's to someone or something else.

 

[alissowack]

No, in most cases they could not have done anything about it. First off, only a certain segment of slaves/concentration camp prisoners (namely young and physically fit adults) would have even a remote chance of escape. Someone who is elderly, or has been beaten/tortured to the point of physical disability would truly not stand a chance of escape, and so there is absolutely nothing they can do about their suffering. Also, in concentration camps, I believe that every time a prisoner successfully escaped, the guards would randomly choose 10 other prisoners and starve them to death. Knowing that, would you still consider attempting escape to be some kind of ethical requirement?

Further, you're arguing for a "compassionate" god that allows people to be imprisoned in death camps or enslaved, and then demands that they risk their lives by trying to escape, or else they are somehow morally in the wrong? Does that seem reasonable to you? And then there are infants born in third-world countries, who live brief lives knowing nothing but the agony of disease and starvation. They are only born to suffer; there is no "choice" involved in their plight.

There is still a choice on how you deal with suffering. You sure want God to be involved in this. Maybe it's because the issue of suffering is a bigger problem if God doesn't exist. Maybe I didn't do a good job putting the issue in mankind's hands, but I was trying to get you see you still have to do something about it. What does that say about those who died still in slavery or in concentration camps? They can still keep aware that there is a such thing as freedom. Freedom still exists and maybe in their life, they can hope they will attain it one day. If not, they die still trying.

 

[TX_Made713]

God got some ocean front property in Idaho for sale

 

[The GMW]

There is still a choice on how you deal with suffering. You sure want God to be involved in this. Maybe it's because the issue of suffering is a bigger problem if God doesn't exist. Maybe I didn't do a good job putting the issue in mankind's hands, but I was trying to get you see you still have to do something about it. What does that say about those who died still in slavery or in concentration camps? They can still keep aware that there is a such thing as freedom. Freedom still exists and maybe in their life, they can hope they will attain it one day. If not, they die still trying.

It's not that I want God to be involved with this, but for the sake of argument I am assuming that there is an omnipotent God who is supposed to be compassionate and loving toward all he creates. I wouldn't say that the issue of suffering becomes worse if you take God out of the equation, in fact it might motivate people to do more to alleviate their own suffering, if they came to believe that they were not going to get any help from a god. Slaves and concentration camp prisoners may have recognized that freedom existed, but for the vast majority of them it was completely out of their reach, regardless of their attempts to attain it. I don't think a compassionate god would leave anyone to that fate.

 

[TX_Made713]

[video=youtube;VZgVimp4-J0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZgVimp4-J0&feature=related[/video]

lmao @2:11

 

[alissowack]

It's not that I want God to be involved with this, but for the sake of argument I am assuming that there is an omnipotent God who is supposed to be compassionate and loving toward all he creates. I wouldn't say that the issue of suffering becomes worse if you take God out of the equation, in fact it might motivate people to do more to alleviate their own suffering, if they came to believe that they were not going to get any help from a god. Slaves and concentration camp prisoners may have recognized that freedom existed, but for the vast majority of them it was completely out of their reach, regardless of their attempts to attain it. I don't think a compassionate god would leave anyone to that fate.

In what way would it motivate? Chances were that those in slavery would die there. What hope was there in dying knowing you would never experience freedom again? What does that say to everything else like hunger, poverty and diseases?

 

[The GMW]

In what way would it motivate? Chances were that those in slavery would die there. What hope was there in dying knowing you would never experience freedom again? What does that say to everything else like hunger, poverty and diseases?

Well, we all know there are sick people out there who will refuse vital treatments because they believe God will heal them, and people who would rather pray every day and leave their problems up to God than actually try to take action and help themselves. As far as slavery, you raise an interesting question. Would it be worse to know from the start that you were never going to be free, or to have the belief that God might save you, only to have your dreams slowly crushed as your torturous life progressed into old age? Either fate would be horrific, and I don't think the former would be decidedly worse.

 

[alissowack]

Well, we all know there are sick people out there who will refuse vital treatments because they believe God will heal them, and people who would rather pray every day and leave their problems up to God than actually try to take action and help themselves. As far as slavery, you raise an interesting question. Would it be worse to know from the start that you were never going to be free, or to have the belief that God might save you, only to have your dreams slowly crushed as your torturous life progressed into old age? Either fate would be horrific, and I don't think the former would be decidedly worse.

What if those in these circumstances believe in more than just a physical deliverance? What about those who believe God will save them from a spiritual sickness, spiritual hunger, or spiritual slavery? What if believing in God gives the lowly a hope for their souls; that there is something that sickness, hunger, and slavery can't harm?

 

[The GMW]

What if those in these circumstances believe in more than just a physical deliverance? What about those who believe God will save them from a spiritual sickness, spiritual hunger, or spiritual slavery? What if believing in God gives the lowly a hope for their souls; that there is something that sickness, hunger, and slavery can't harm?

Do you really think that a lifetime of dehumanization, forced labor, and beatings would not harm one's "soul" (if such a thing exists), regardless of the person's beliefs?

 

[alissowack]

Do you really think that a lifetime of dehumanization, forced labor, and beatings would not harm one's "soul" (if such a thing exists), regardless of the person's beliefs?

If the soul goes on forever, those in slavery can be led to believe that they can experience freedom after death; that a lifetime of slavery will not keep them from a eternal freedom...unless you are questioning the matter of someone's will to believe such a thing after such torment.

 

[The GMW]

If the soul goes on forever, those in slavery can be led to believe that they can experience freedom after death; that a lifetime of slavery will not keep them from a eternal freedom...unless you are questioning the matter of someone's will to believe such a thing after such torment.

The point of this thread is to discuss the merits of Christianity in terms of rationality and legitimacy, not simply as a means of blind hope. If one is willing to just accept Christianity because it provides him hope for life after death, what makes Christianity better than any other religion in the world? You might as well make up your own God and your own afterlife, if hope is all you are seeking, and logic is not a factor.

So if you're going to argue in favor of Christianity, you have to provide reasons why it should be believed over any other religion. If you're arguing in favor of religion/the god concept in general, that's another subject entirely.