soul rattler
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Mister B.;7309466 said:
Pause
oh my damn...... ISIS beheads a kidnapped american journalist in syria
Pause
FuriousOne;7309576 said:
yes but that's in their area of the world and directly affect them so there reach is very limited they don't have the intelligence and power close at hand in the middle east to do anything serious against people like isis.
How many of their army bases are anywhere close to iraq?? none.
kingblaze84
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zombie;7309291 said:
America ruling Iraq without pretense means setting up an empire right in the heart of the Middle East. That's a jihadist's wet dream coming to life. No way would that be a good thing, that means more than 400K thousand troops would be needed, Baghdad alone is a huge city in the tens of millions.
People from the Middle East would hate us less if our foreign policy was less on imperialism and stealing resources, along with propping up an apartheid govt like Israel that is universally hated in the Middle East by the people.
BY THE WAY, if you are serious about an all out war with America doing this mostly alone against ISIS, be aware Saudi Arabia and Qatar princes are directly funding ISIS, do you wanna go to war against Saudi Arabia, home of the mecca too? You have to if you are SERIOUS about taking on ISIS, you wanna take that route head on? China, Iran and Russia have decent militaries, they can take on ISIS if they are so big and bad a threat. But the world knows war loving Americans like yourself are always willing to put themselves up, first in line. And meanwhile, America's enemies worldwide will increase again. Be honest and say you want hundreds of thousands of troops in Syria and Iraq AND Saudi Arabia. This would be the ONLY way to take on ISIS.
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kingblaze84
New member
Mister B.;7309466 said:
My brother said the same thing, but if anything they would probably give him an even worse death if he fought back
kingblaze84;7310035 said:
Yes exactly america has to decide what it wants to be and stop half assing everything, either we are an empire or a real peace loving democracy, i don't care how much they hate us it is unimportant. people are sheep and their emotions change overnight.
there will be many who also support us and will be our willing underlings. If america can give the average people services and treat them with a certain level of dignity they will fall in line. that place has been run but dictators forever, we will be a benevolent ones and there hate will slowly diminish. The japanese hated us too they don't today.
as far as i am concerned the backers of isis in qatar and saudi should be assassinated and there assets taken to rebuild iraq under american control. Top proitority should be given to finding out who these people are.
and stop bringing up china they won't do shit. they do business with whoever rules no matter what they do. isis could start back slavery and china would have no problem with it
iran getting involved leads to shia sunni wars all over the region we all lose in that situation as that would threaten world oil supply. russia is a rival and limiting their influence is in our interest not to mention russia and israel don't have the best of relations. russia is a friend of iran, iran is an enemy of israel more power for russia means more for iran which would be bad for israel, and we cannot abandon israel.
you over value isis, isis is more of a future threat but only if we let them grow and make their caliphate solid but right now they can be destroyed if america finds the balls.
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kingblaze84
New member
zombie;7310219 said:
Creating an American empire in the HEART of the Middle East is something that would be immensely expensive and ridiculously bloody. America would be at war forever with your strategy and fighting THREE, mostly Sunni nations in the Middle East is something that would unite Al-Qaeda and ISIS beyond anything imaginable. ISIS and Al-Qaeda would join forces and create something even scarier then ISIS.
China has no morals to you and would accept anything, but if ISIS is such a big universal threat then other nations should be willing to pick up more of the slack right? If China is so close to ISIS and doesn't feel threatened by them, that speaks volumes, considering how strong China's military is.
You say Iran is too divisive to fight ISIS but guess what? That would distract them from us if we MINDED OUR OWN BUSINESS. The president of Syria is asking the world for help fighting ISIS, Russia is helping them and perhaps America should help Assad out too. At least he's secular and protects the rights of all groups of people in his country (compared to ISIS of course). And your policy of taking ISIS on is futile as long as we support the apartheid state of Israel, it ruins ANY moral authority America has by doing so. ISIS is very anti Israel and of course this builds up credibility within its Muslim followers, setting up empires in Iraq WHILE supporting ethnic cleansing nations like Israel means a vicious circle of fighting. Your strategy ignores all the realities on the ground, and you ironically admit ISIS isn't as big a threat as the media makes it seem......even more puzzling then why you want us escalating Iraq War part 3
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kingblaze84;7310294 said:
We already basically had one in iraq, after we took over at the start the people did not hate us so much, we started fucking up when the iraqi government was created, besides the decision to invade iraq in the first place that was our biggest mistake. i don't believe we would be at war forever the people would eventually accept us if we treated them correctly. isis militarilly is not really that impressive compared to america. The problem with isis is, we cannot leave them alone or risk someone else taking them out because in the future there potential to be a major fucking problem is too high we have to absolutely crush these people and when that is done we have to implement a program of social change in these nations
and al-qaeda was basically rendered ineffective. china is not close to isis what are you talking about??
and fuck moral authority in the middle east no one has any and under no circumstances can we abandon israel the whole world knows they are our closest ally if we abandom them it's puts into question our alliances with other nations all over the world and no one will trust us to keep our word so we would have no leverage anyplace
it's either iraq war 3 or ww3 small war now or big war later
soul rattler
New member
zombie;7310296 said:
I don't have to say shit. You're being sonned ridiculously right now.
"America should rule Iraq" pffft
Focal Point
New member
Lol peep history since the days of going at Tripoli.... best to fortify home and at worst contain Middle East moves indirectly
eh, overstates the case. imperialism is more like when you invade a nation and claim its territory as your own (cough RUSSIA cough) and we don't seem to have control of their resources.kingblaze84;7310035 said:
i would stick with "American foreign policy is financially wasteful"
kingblaze84
New member
@zombie
Lucky for you, we're basically at Iraq War part 3 now, that was established thanks to the airstrikes weeks ago and the special operations taking place there. But your idea of escalating the war still wouldn't do anything because military leaders are already saying ISIS cannot be defeated without going into Syria. That's where the capital of Islamic State is. Jack Dempsey, leader of the Pentagon said today even military brass is wary of going into Syria without an international coalition of troops, and that hasn't happened aside from the Kurds and the waste of space Iraqi army. Sending in hundreds of thousands of troops back into Iraq is nothing without sending them into Syria as well, are you willing to wage war in 3 different nations in the Middle East lol? See how expensive and bloody that will get. And remember America CAN'T EVEN TAKE CARE OF ITS OWN FUCKING VETERANS AS IT IS. That's how BANKRUPT America is right now, let that marinate in your head before you jump for joy at spending money we don't have. I'll also pretend you didn't say Al-Qaeda has been rendered ineffective, you must be forgetting Al-Qaeda is very active in Syria and Iraq. Of course, Isis is bigger now.
China is closer to ISIS compared to America, as China is in Asia and so is the Middle East. That's what I mean relatively, but again, nations IN THAT REGION should be the ones building a coalition and bombing there, not America. Again, if Islamic State to you is "not that impressive militarily", then all the more reason for other nations to take the lead on this. Iraq's military is pussy beyond belief, but that's no reason to do more then humanitarian relief and limited operations.
As far as not abandoning Israel or not supporting its apartheid actions, then you might as well throw billions down the hole AGAIN because as long as this Israeli-Gaza situation continues as is, American force will not be respected there. It will only unite the people of that region against us, you seem to not be able to grasp just how hated American policy toward Israel is. If America abandoned Israel, as many Americans want done and most of the Middle East obviously, then that would be a big chain off America's neck when it comes to negotiating with people there. America wouldn't lose support in the Middle East if it cut off ties to Israel's universally hated govt, it would gain respect in that region, read CIA reports on the effects of America's ties with Israel. Past American generals are ON RECORD as saying wars in the Middle East never calm down when America is involved because of its despised ties with Israel.
And speaking of Israel, since you love it and respect it so much, why won't you let Israel take the lead in fighting ISIS.....? They're such an important and great ally of America right?
Lucky for you, we're basically at Iraq War part 3 now, that was established thanks to the airstrikes weeks ago and the special operations taking place there. But your idea of escalating the war still wouldn't do anything because military leaders are already saying ISIS cannot be defeated without going into Syria. That's where the capital of Islamic State is. Jack Dempsey, leader of the Pentagon said today even military brass is wary of going into Syria without an international coalition of troops, and that hasn't happened aside from the Kurds and the waste of space Iraqi army. Sending in hundreds of thousands of troops back into Iraq is nothing without sending them into Syria as well, are you willing to wage war in 3 different nations in the Middle East lol? See how expensive and bloody that will get. And remember America CAN'T EVEN TAKE CARE OF ITS OWN FUCKING VETERANS AS IT IS. That's how BANKRUPT America is right now, let that marinate in your head before you jump for joy at spending money we don't have. I'll also pretend you didn't say Al-Qaeda has been rendered ineffective, you must be forgetting Al-Qaeda is very active in Syria and Iraq. Of course, Isis is bigger now.
China is closer to ISIS compared to America, as China is in Asia and so is the Middle East. That's what I mean relatively, but again, nations IN THAT REGION should be the ones building a coalition and bombing there, not America. Again, if Islamic State to you is "not that impressive militarily", then all the more reason for other nations to take the lead on this. Iraq's military is pussy beyond belief, but that's no reason to do more then humanitarian relief and limited operations.
As far as not abandoning Israel or not supporting its apartheid actions, then you might as well throw billions down the hole AGAIN because as long as this Israeli-Gaza situation continues as is, American force will not be respected there. It will only unite the people of that region against us, you seem to not be able to grasp just how hated American policy toward Israel is. If America abandoned Israel, as many Americans want done and most of the Middle East obviously, then that would be a big chain off America's neck when it comes to negotiating with people there. America wouldn't lose support in the Middle East if it cut off ties to Israel's universally hated govt, it would gain respect in that region, read CIA reports on the effects of America's ties with Israel. Past American generals are ON RECORD as saying wars in the Middle East never calm down when America is involved because of its despised ties with Israel.
And speaking of Israel, since you love it and respect it so much, why won't you let Israel take the lead in fighting ISIS.....? They're such an important and great ally of America right?
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kingblaze84
New member
janklow;7311531 said:
There are lots of American companies who did reconstruction in Iraq and I believe quite a few are still doing construction projects there. We all know Halliburton and other American companies (With allies) made a financial killing in Iraq and Afghanistan. We also know about the minerals discovered in Afghanistan and some reports suggesting America is building some kind of pipeline in that region as well for natural gas.
http://globalresearch.ca/the-war-is...st-reserves-of-minerals-and-natural-gas/19769
But you are also right in that the MAIN reason American foreign policy is dumb in that region is because it is wasteful, morally disgraceful too.
kingblaze84;7311601 said:
NAH ISRAEL FIGHTING isis will lead to israel basically killing half the people over there , i believe that without america holding back israel somewhat they would take out half the middle east and lead to even more out of control war and at this point no matter what we do america will be blamed. sorry to say but israel has to be an apartheid state because is if was not then in one generation the purpose of the creation of israel would be lost. It would no longer be a jewish state and the jews would become minorities in israel. If we can convince the pussy ass europeans to help then that would be great but if we cannot then we have to do what needs to be done.
Again like i explained already the other nations have no interest in stoping isis (china) and those that do it is in our interest to make sure they don't get involved too much. After we clear out iraq we can deal with syria. the issue with our veterrans is another problem and has more to do with incompetence than us not having the money. al-queda is ineffective in attacking america that's what i meant. Does china have bases all over the middle east?? no so they are not closer than we are. china does not even the power to project force outside of asia they only have one active air craft carrier and at the most are working on three. not to mention they don't have the intelligence system on the ground in the area.
The number one thing america has to learn how to do is how to properly exploit the resources of these lands while still improving the average lives of the people there as well as somehow showing the american public how our presence there is a benefit to the american economy.
i really think america has to decide what it wants to be pick a role and stick to it
i really think america has to decide what it wants to be pick a role and stick to it
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kingblaze84
New member
zombie;7311678 said:
So if Israel is so destructive and willing to use nukes or hydrogen weapons, then maybe America should put sanctions on Israel. Even better, treat Israel the way US Congress treated South Africa in the 80s, ostracize them to the point South Africa's regime crumbled. You admit Israel is an apartheid state but that's not winning friends in a region which has tons of oil and resources. If America wants to get access to these resources in a more peaceful manner and keep the economies of the world going, then it's time for America to change its foreign policy there. Being allies with a nutjob nation like Israel is not worth the headache anymore, ask past American generals. You respect what people in the military say right??
ISIS has a military that doesn't impress you, so ISIS would eventually overreach right? So far, ISIS is sticking to mainly Sunni parts of the Arab world and in its region, is getting a lot of support from tribal leaders. If ISIS overreaches, another foreign govt will strike back, stop acting like America is the only ones who can stop ISIS. Britain still has a strong force, and so do the Russians and PLENTY of other nations around the world. You act like other nations in the world don't have an air force and don't have soldiers, foh man. The world isn't StarCraft, things always come back to bite us, just look at how the money we spent in all these wars could have been spent paying down our national debt and bailing out cities and towns nationwide with exploding homeless populations. Even in Manhattan, allegedly the richest American district, has more homeless then I've seen before.
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kingblaze84
New member
An American General Warns the Israeli Right
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-07-25/an-american-general-warns-the-israeli-right-
Jul 25, 2013 9:58 AM EDT
By Jeffrey Goldberg
Last weekend, Marine Corps General James Mattis, the recently retired leader of U.S. Central Command and a man known inside the White House for his sharp opinions (which is one reason he’s no longer leading Central Command) issued a very sharp opinion about Israel’s future.
Speaking at a security conference in Aspen, Colorado, Mattis warned Israel that time was running out for it to reverse its West Bank settlement project.
Mattis went on to make another assertion that Netanyahu’s cabinet ought to heed: “I paid a military security price every day as the commander of Centcom because the Americans were seen as biased in support of Israel and that moderates all the moderate Arabs who want to be with us, because they can’t come out publicly in support of people who don’t show respect for the Arab Palestinians."
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-07-25/an-american-general-warns-the-israeli-right-
Jul 25, 2013 9:58 AM EDT
By Jeffrey Goldberg
Last weekend, Marine Corps General James Mattis, the recently retired leader of U.S. Central Command and a man known inside the White House for his sharp opinions (which is one reason he’s no longer leading Central Command) issued a very sharp opinion about Israel’s future.
Speaking at a security conference in Aspen, Colorado, Mattis warned Israel that time was running out for it to reverse its West Bank settlement project.
Mattis went on to make another assertion that Netanyahu’s cabinet ought to heed: “I paid a military security price every day as the commander of Centcom because the Americans were seen as biased in support of Israel and that moderates all the moderate Arabs who want to be with us, because they can’t come out publicly in support of people who don’t show respect for the Arab Palestinians."
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kingblaze84
New member
The same general on America's policies in the Middle East
http://banoosh.com/blog/2013/07/29/top-us-general-world-hate-us-for-backing-israel/
Top US General: ‘World hate US for backing Israel’
During the hour-long interview, Mattis, who retired on June 1, 2013, was very blunt revealing US military frustrations and perspectives rarely heard from such high-ranking officials.
He warned the Zionist regime that if John Kerry’s current efforts fails, Israel will become an apartheid state in the eyes of entire world. He also said that world resentment of US support for Israel hurts America militarily throughout the region.
“I paid a military-security price every day as the commander of the CentCom because the American were seen as biased in support of Israel,” said Mattis.
Mattis observation was not much different than his predecessor, as chief of CentCom, Gen. David Petreus, known as Zionism’s military poodle. As result, the Jewish lobby turned against him. In November 2012, Petraeus was forced to retired as head of CIA over a sex scandal geared by the lobby.
Gen. Mattis also warned that US military involvement in Syria would lead to “a full-throated, very, very serious war”.
--He also notes further in the interview America WILL NOT see progress in the Middle East until America's dumb foreign policy changes. Also note General David Petraus AGREED with General Mattis. How much ammunition do I need on the subject? Your ideas on war there are based on fantasy, PURE fantasy.
http://banoosh.com/blog/2013/07/29/top-us-general-world-hate-us-for-backing-israel/
Top US General: ‘World hate US for backing Israel’
During the hour-long interview, Mattis, who retired on June 1, 2013, was very blunt revealing US military frustrations and perspectives rarely heard from such high-ranking officials.
He warned the Zionist regime that if John Kerry’s current efforts fails, Israel will become an apartheid state in the eyes of entire world. He also said that world resentment of US support for Israel hurts America militarily throughout the region.
“I paid a military-security price every day as the commander of the CentCom because the American were seen as biased in support of Israel,” said Mattis.
Mattis observation was not much different than his predecessor, as chief of CentCom, Gen. David Petreus, known as Zionism’s military poodle. As result, the Jewish lobby turned against him. In November 2012, Petraeus was forced to retired as head of CIA over a sex scandal geared by the lobby.
Gen. Mattis also warned that US military involvement in Syria would lead to “a full-throated, very, very serious war”.
--He also notes further in the interview America WILL NOT see progress in the Middle East until America's dumb foreign policy changes. Also note General David Petraus AGREED with General Mattis. How much ammunition do I need on the subject? Your ideas on war there are based on fantasy, PURE fantasy.
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