Obama's AIPAC speech, from yesterday.

[kingblaze84]

Obama is a complete slave to Israel, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone by now. If Israel strikes Iran, expect Obama to say he understands and continue giving them military support, as he has since he's been president. I give Obama credit for one thing though, and that's if a Republican was in charge now, there would definitely be a war against Iran. But Obama is trying to save Israel's inevitable strike for after the election. He doesn't want his base looking at him like they did George W Bush. He looks like Bush already to me though lol.

wait,wait wait

you are saying Obama is a "slave" to Israel.

But yet from what I've constantly heard from his opposition is that Obama secretly hates all Jews

and they even brought up the fact he has yet to visit Israel since becoming POTUS as evidence of this "fact"

now which one is it??????

The Republican talking points are just that....talking points. Most Jews will vote for Obama because they know he has Israel's back. He is still giving Israel aid and even vetoed the UN Amendment that would condemn Israel's recent settlement building last summer. Obama also said Israel has the right to attack whenever it wants to. Doesn't sound like someone standing up to Israel to me.

 

[janklow]

The Republican talking points are just that....talking points. Most Jews will vote for Obama because they know he has Israel's back.

most Jews are going to vote for Obama for reasons that have nothing to do with knowing he has Israel's back

 

[kingblaze84]

The Republican talking points are just that....talking points. Most Jews will vote for Obama because they know he has Israel's back.

most Jews are going to vote for Obama for reasons that have nothing to do with knowing he has Israel's back

You're lying and you know it. If Obama was to turn his back on Israel right now, he would lose the influential Jewish vote in no time. When Obama was being very critical of Israel's settlement policies, he actually lost Jewish support very dramatically, it went below 50% at one point. When this happened, Obama started kissing Israel's ass and he's been supported by Jews ever since.

 

[janklow]

You're lying and you know it.

no, i'm not, and by the way, what an incredibly mature way to debate a topic.

If Obama was to turn his back on Israel right now, he would lose the influential Jewish vote in no time. When Obama was being very critical of Israel's settlement policies, he actually lost Jewish support very dramatically, it went below 50% at one point. When this happened, Obama started kissing Israel's ass and he's been supported by Jews ever since.

most Jews typically vote Democrat, and they're going to continue to do this whether or not Obama kisses Israel's ass. some of them don't care as much about Israel as you're claiming; some of them do, and can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative. a percentage of them are conservative and will not vote for Obama no matter what. oddly enough, Jews are like most people: their opinions, positions and reasoning vary from person to person.

although, in retrospect, i suppose i should have just responded to your post with "no, YOU'RE the fucking liar, and YOU know it," since you did not really deserve more than that.

 

[kingblaze84]

You're lying and you know it.

no, i'm not, and by the way, what an incredibly mature way to debate a topic.

If Obama was to turn his back on Israel right now, he would lose the influential Jewish vote in no time. When Obama was being very critical of Israel's settlement policies, he actually lost Jewish support very dramatically, it went below 50% at one point. When this happened, Obama started kissing Israel's ass and he's been supported by Jews ever since.

most Jews typically vote Democrat, and they're going to continue to do this whether or not Obama kisses Israel's ass. some of them don't care as much about Israel as you're claiming; some of them do, and can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative. a percentage of them are conservative and will not vote for Obama no matter what. oddly enough, Jews are like most people: their opinions, positions and reasoning vary from person to person.

although, in retrospect, i suppose i should have just responded to your post with "no, YOU'RE the fucking liar, and YOU know it," since you did not really deserve more than that.

You're beyond denial right now HAHAHA. When Obama criticized Israel heavily in 2010, Ed Koch and many other Jews began criticizing Obama harshly, and his approval ratings among Jews went below 50% at one point. You need to read the news more often, but than again you're in Canada right? So you probably don't know how bad American Jews began dissing the president when he said Israel should return to the pre-1967 borders, as the Arab League has stated for years. Yes I will admit some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but that is not common for American Jews, who feel a tight connection with Israel (although this is different for many young ones).

Any American here know that if a politician begins to criticize Israel, he will be vilified in the Jewish community, and since they are an influential voting bloc, that means less money for campaign donations. Not to mention the religious nature of many politicians here....don't be in denial Janklow, if you don't know something, don't pretend you do.

 

[janklow]

You're beyond denial right now HAHAHA. ...don't be in denial Janklow, if you don't know something, don't pretend you do.

so, i admit i am confused about one thing: do you want to debate the topic or do you want to just talk shit back and forth? because we can do the latter, but this isn't the forum for it.

now, for some of the topical stuff, i can simply quote myself from the last post:

When Obama criticized Israel heavily in 2010, Ed Koch and many other Jews began criticizing Obama harshly, and his approval ratings among Jews went below 50% at one point.

"[some Jews] can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative." do you think that Ed Koch would have voted for McCain instead of Obama over this issue? or do you think Ed Koch would like Obama to consider the pro-Israel position of his supporters? lowered approval ratings mean one is disappointed with the job you're doing. they do not mean one will automatically vote against you.

You need to read the news more often, but than again you're in Canada right?

this insult doesn't even make sense.

So you probably don't know how bad American Jews began dissing the president when he said Israel should return to the pre-1967 borders, as the Arab League has stated for years.

another quote: "a percentage of them are conservative and will not vote for Obama no matter what." i also recall a lot of conservatives beating this drum that weren't Jewish and wouldn't vote for Obama anyway. and again, the previous quote STILL applies: a Jewish voter can complain about that speech, and disapprove of the president for it, and STILL vote for him.

Yes I will admit some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but that is not common for American Jews-

considering that the average Jewish voter identifies as a Democrat, and considering that since 2008, the most optimistic GOP polling shows something like a 9% change (which is significant, but does not imply Jewish voters are rushing to abandon Obama because he talked tough on Israel that one time), i'm not sure why you'd assume that's NOT common among Jewish voters.

Any American here know that if a politician begins to criticize Israel, he will be vilified in the Jewish community, and since they are an influential voting bloc, that means less money for campaign donations. Not to mention the religious nature of many politicians here.

considering that you've a) told me to read the news and b) implied that what Obama has ALREADY done has killed him with Jewish voters, can you tell me if you've noticed talk of how well or poorly Obama's fundraising is going in the media?

 

[kingblaze84]

You're beyond denial right now HAHAHA. ...don't be in denial Janklow, if you don't know something, don't pretend you do.

so, i admit i am confused about one thing: do you want to debate the topic or do you want to just talk shit back and forth? because we can do the latter, but this isn't the forum for it.

now, for some of the topical stuff, i can simply quote myself from the last post:

When Obama criticized Israel heavily in 2010, Ed Koch and many other Jews began criticizing Obama harshly, and his approval ratings among Jews went below 50% at one point.

"[some Jews] can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative." do you think that Ed Koch would have voted for McCain instead of Obama over this issue? or do you think Ed Koch would like Obama to consider the pro-Israel position of his supporters? lowered approval ratings mean one is disappointed with the job you're doing. they do not mean one will automatically vote against you.

You need to read the news more often, but than again you're in Canada right?

this insult doesn't even make sense.

So you probably don't know how bad American Jews began dissing the president when he said Israel should return to the pre-1967 borders, as the Arab League has stated for years.

another quote: "a percentage of them are conservative and will not vote for Obama no matter what." i also recall a lot of conservatives beating this drum that weren't Jewish and wouldn't vote for Obama anyway. and again, the previous quote STILL applies: a Jewish voter can complain about that speech, and disapprove of the president for it, and STILL vote for him.

Yes I will admit some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but that is not common for American Jews-

considering that the average Jewish voter identifies as a Democrat, and considering that since 2008, the most optimistic GOP polling shows something like a 9% change (which is significant, but does not imply Jewish voters are rushing to abandon Obama because he talked tough on Israel that one time), i'm not sure why you'd assume that's NOT common among Jewish voters.

Any American here know that if a politician begins to criticize Israel, he will be vilified in the Jewish community, and since they are an influential voting bloc, that means less money for campaign donations. Not to mention the religious nature of many politicians here.

considering that you've a) told me to read the news and b) implied that what Obama has ALREADY done has killed him with Jewish voters, can you tell me if you've noticed talk of how well or poorly Obama's fundraising is going in the media?

I never said Obama's previous criticism killed him with Jewish voters, I said it went down below 50% after he criticized Israel for the illegal settlements. After he kissed Israel's ass, vetoed the UN resolution that officially condemned illegal settlement building in Palestinian areas, and did not address the issue at all after awhile (hasn't until this very day), his support from American Jews shot up, and is now around 55-65%, depending on the poll you read. Again, if Obama was to criticize Israel again for its illegal settlements and say it should return to pre-1967 borders, his poll numbers among American Jews would fall below 50%, AGAIN. If you cannot understand what I am saying here, or don't believe me, do the research yourself.

 

[janklow]

I never said Obama's previous criticism killed him with Jewish voters, I said it went down below 50% after he criticized Israel for the illegal settlements.

it's funny that you constantly use figures of speech like "kissed his ass" but seem confused when other people use ones like "killed him with Jewish voters." and yes, that's what you're claiming: that when he criticized Israel, he "actually lost Jewish support very dramatically." it's the same thing.

Again, if Obama was to criticize Israel again for its illegal settlements and say it should return to pre-1967 borders, his poll numbers among American Jews would fall below 50%, AGAIN.

so let me see if i understand this: i'm saying that Jewish voters are not about to abandon Obama in the upcoming election, and you're agreeing with me? no, that's right, your argument is that the ONLY issue that matters to Jewish voters is "what Obama says about Israel." of course, this would imply that Jewish voters should line up with Republicans, since they have the more go-Israel stance 95% of the time... but then that doesn't seem to happen. it's almost like Jewish voters care about more than one thing!

If you cannot understand what I am saying here, or don't believe me, do the research yourself.

(sigh)

people really need a new phrase to represent the statement of "i'm frustrated that you haven't been won over by my posts," because every time someone tells me to go do internet research, i realize i HAVE done this and i still don't agree with them.

 

[kingblaze84]

I never said Obama's previous criticism killed him with Jewish voters, I said it went down below 50% after he criticized Israel for the illegal settlements.

it's funny that you constantly use figures of speech like "kissed his ass" but seem confused when other people use ones like "killed him with Jewish voters." and yes, that's what you're claiming: that when he criticized Israel, he "actually lost Jewish support very dramatically." it's the same thing.

Again, if Obama was to criticize Israel again for its illegal settlements and say it should return to pre-1967 borders, his poll numbers among American Jews would fall below 50%, AGAIN.

so let me see if i understand this: i'm saying that Jewish voters are not about to abandon Obama in the upcoming election, and you're agreeing with me? no, that's right, your argument is that the ONLY issue that matters to Jewish voters is "what Obama says about Israel." of course, this would imply that Jewish voters should line up with Republicans, since they have the more go-Israel stance 95% of the time... but then that doesn't seem to happen. it's almost like Jewish voters care about more than one thing!

If you cannot understand what I am saying here, or don't believe me, do the research yourself.

(sigh)

people really need a new phrase to represent the statement of "i'm frustrated that you haven't been won over by my posts," because every time someone tells me to go do internet research, i realize i HAVE done this and i still don't agree with them.

Did you even read my post? I said some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but Israel is the main issue for most American Jews, who overall are extremely protective of Israel. That was proven when Obama began criticizing Israel last year and was butchered by Jewish media figures as a result, seeing his approval ratings go down dramatically among the American Jewish vote. That is a FACT. I didn't say Israel is the only issue, but it certainly is the main issue. Anyone who disagrees with what I have said is either not American or not very well informed of the American politic. It may be both in your case.

 

[a.mann]

Obama is a complete slave to Israel, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone by now. If Israel strikes Iran, expect Obama to say he understands and continue giving them military support, as he has since he's been president. I give Obama credit for one thing though, and that's if a Republican was in charge now, there would definitely be a war against Iran. But Obama is trying to save Israel's inevitable strike for after the election. He doesn't want his base looking at him like they did George W Bush. He looks like Bush already to me though lol.

wait,wait wait

you are saying Obama is a "slave" to Israel.

But yet from what I've constantly heard from his opposition is that Obama secretly hates all Jews

and they even brought up the fact he has yet to visit Israel since becoming POTUS as evidence of this "fact"

now which one is it??????

The Republican talking points are just that....talking points. Most Jews will vote for Obama because they know he has Israel's back. He is still giving Israel aid and even vetoed the UN Amendment that would condemn Israel's recent settlement building last summer. Obama also said Israel has the right to attack whenever it wants to. Doesn't sound like someone standing up to Israel to me.

not according to Republican most respected Conservatives and pundits.

They've said repeatedly that Obama has been very weak and timid with his polices concerning Israel.

Now what reasons would they be misleading or outright lie on an issue of this nature??

 

[kingblaze84]

Obama is a complete slave to Israel, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone by now. If Israel strikes Iran, expect Obama to say he understands and continue giving them military support, as he has since he's been president. I give Obama credit for one thing though, and that's if a Republican was in charge now, there would definitely be a war against Iran. But Obama is trying to save Israel's inevitable strike for after the election. He doesn't want his base looking at him like they did George W Bush. He looks like Bush already to me though lol.

wait,wait wait

you are saying Obama is a "slave" to Israel.

But yet from what I've constantly heard from his opposition is that Obama secretly hates all Jews

and they even brought up the fact he has yet to visit Israel since becoming POTUS as evidence of this "fact"

now which one is it??????

The Republican talking points are just that....talking points. Most Jews will vote for Obama because they know he has Israel's back. He is still giving Israel aid and even vetoed the UN Amendment that would condemn Israel's recent settlement building last summer. Obama also said Israel has the right to attack whenever it wants to. Doesn't sound like someone standing up to Israel to me.

not according to Republican most respected Conservatives and pundits.

They've said repeatedly that Obama has been very weak and timid with his polices concerning Israel.

Now what reasons would they be misleading or outright lie on an issue of this nature??

It's all politics man, Republicans just want the Jewish vote, which is influential for financial reasons (they make up about 5% of Americans). If Obama really was weak with Israel, he wouldn't be having about 60% of the Jewish vote according to polls I saw months ago. Obama WAS critical of Israel last year and in 2009, but now it's election year!! Obama is kissing Israel's ass non-stop these days, and hasn't mentioned Israel destroying HUNDREDS of Palestinian homes THIS year. Anti-Americanism is growing all over the Middle East, and sucking up to Israel is one of the main reasons.....Obama knows this but since he's a sellout now, it doesn't matter to him.

 

[a.mann]

It's all politics man, Republicans just want the Jewish vote, which is influential for financial reasons (they make up about 5% of Americans). If Obama really was weak with Israel, he wouldn't be having about 60% of the Jewish vote according to polls I saw months ago. Obama WAS critical of Israel last year and in 2009, but now it's election year!! Obama is kissing Israel's ass non-stop these days, and hasn't mentioned Israel destroying HUNDREDS of Palestinian homes THIS year. Anti-Americanism is growing all over the Middle East, and sucking up to Israel is one of the main reasons.....Obama knows this but since he's a sellout now, it doesn't matter to him.

something just is not adding up here.

So you are saying Obama is a sellout. Yet his PROFESSIONAL OPPONENTS in the political field are publicly calling him out as a "food stamp President" .( And we all are know what they mean by that.) Some of most influencal of them have also called him a radcial racist with alleged proof to back this claim up. Millions of Amercians (whites) belive he is not even American and is really a Mulsim.

These types of claims have been going on since he took office.

So either you are misinformed about him NOT doing enough or the experienced politicians and pundits are intentionally misleading the American people that he is doing too much.

Eitherway quite a predicament to be in for Obama

 

[kingblaze84]

It's all politics man, Republicans just want the Jewish vote, which is influential for financial reasons (they make up about 5% of Americans). If Obama really was weak with Israel, he wouldn't be having about 60% of the Jewish vote according to polls I saw months ago. Obama WAS critical of Israel last year and in 2009, but now it's election year!! Obama is kissing Israel's ass non-stop these days, and hasn't mentioned Israel destroying HUNDREDS of Palestinian homes THIS year. Anti-Americanism is growing all over the Middle East, and sucking up to Israel is one of the main reasons.....Obama knows this but since he's a sellout now, it doesn't matter to him.

something just is not adding up here.

So you are saying Obama is a sellout. Yet his PROFESSIONAL OPPONENTS in the political field are publicly calling him out as a "food stamp President" .( And we all are know what they mean by that.) Some of most influencal of them have also called him a radcial racist with alleged proof to back this claim up. Millions of Amercians (whites) belive he is not even American and is really a Mulsim.

These types of claims have been going on since he took office.

So either you are misinformed about him NOT doing enough or the experienced politicians and pundits are intentionally misleading the American people that he is doing too much.

Eitherway quite a predicament to be in for Obama

Again, it's all political theater on the part of Republican opponents, and sadly many Americans have believed in the lies about the president. There is a lot of mistrust of Obama in America due to him being Black, but remember most Americans still like him personally, although not politically. In short most Americans haven't bought into the Republican talking points, and that is why he is still ahead of his Republican opponents in head to head match ups in most polls. Most here agree Republicans are worse.

Most Americans dislike Obama politically though because they haven't seen any real change. At all, aside from some cosmetic differences in foreign policy and the overall good health care plan. But these changes mean little when Obama seems so like Bush in most ways.

 

[a.mann]

I think what you failing to understand is the fact that although it may just be Republican political theater and talking points to you, it has been poled that millions of people actually do think Obama is an anti-American "welfare" President.

They actually do believe he is "not one of us". He wasn't born in the United States. He's not a Christian. He what's to change "traditional" American values. And they want to "take back their country".

But you feel he is a sell out? My question is : exactly WHOM has he sold out too?

The Right Wing Conservatives? The Arab League? The Russians? The UK??

 

[kingblaze84]

I think what you failing to understand is the fact that although it may just be Republican political theater and talking points to you, it has been poled that millions of people actually do think Obama is an anti-American "welfare" President.

They actually do believe he is "not one of us". He wasn't born in the United States. He's not a Christian. He what's to change "traditional" American values. And they want to "take back their country".

But you feel he is a sell out? My question is : exactly WHOM has he sold out too?

The Right Wing Conservatives? The Arab League? The Russians? The UK??

Millions of Americans believe many things without proof, so that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Doesn't mean MOST Americans feel he isn't a Christian, most do. Most also believe he is a citizen, otherwise, he would have lost in 2008. As far as being a sell out, Obama has sadly sold out to the military industrial complex, and there is plenty of proof of that. Endless war in Afghanistan is proof of that. War profiteers love Obama and donate generously to his campaign, and on top of selling out to them, he's also sold us out to corporate interests. He voted to extend the Bush tax cuts, despite campaigning against them in 2008 haha. He's as big a sell out I've ever seen in my lifetime.

 

[janklow]

Did you even read my post?

i really wish people would get some new material.

I said some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but Israel is the main issue for most American Jews, who overall are extremely protective of Israel.

well, what you ACTUALLY said was, "Yes I will admit some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but that is not common for American Jews," because you couldn't state some Jews will vote for Obama no matter what without IMMEDIATELY qualifying it as some insignificant number.

That was proven when Obama began criticizing Israel last year and was butchered by Jewish media figures as a result, seeing his approval ratings go down dramatically among the American Jewish vote.

by JEWISH media figures, or by CONSERVATIVE media figures? because there's a difference, and there's a lot of non-Jews running with the "Obama hates Israel" card. and as far as the approval rating (and speaking of not reading posts): "[some Jews] can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative. ... lowered approval ratings mean one is disappointed with the job you're doing. they do not mean one will automatically vote against you."

Anyone who disagrees with what I have said is either not American or not very well informed of the American politic. It may be both in your case.

look, i get that you cannot be an adult on the internet in the face of SOMEONE NOT AGREEING WITH YOU, but it's something you might want to work on.

 

[kingblaze84]

Did you even read my post?

i really wish people would get some new material.

I said some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but Israel is the main issue for most American Jews, who overall are extremely protective of Israel.

well, what you ACTUALLY said was, "Yes I will admit some Jews would vote for Obama no matter what, but that is not common for American Jews," because you couldn't state some Jews will vote for Obama no matter what without IMMEDIATELY qualifying it as some insignificant number.

That was proven when Obama began criticizing Israel last year and was butchered by Jewish media figures as a result, seeing his approval ratings go down dramatically among the American Jewish vote.

by JEWISH media figures, or by CONSERVATIVE media figures? because there's a difference, and there's a lot of non-Jews running with the "Obama hates Israel" card. and as far as the approval rating (and speaking of not reading posts): "[some Jews] can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative. ... lowered approval ratings mean one is disappointed with the job you're doing. they do not mean one will automatically vote against you."

Anyone who disagrees with what I have said is either not American or not very well informed of the American politic. It may be both in your case.

look, i get that you cannot be an adult on the internet in the face of SOMEONE NOT AGREEING WITH YOU, but it's something you might want to work on.

You don't know anything about American politics and the Jewish vote, that is very obvious. If you don't believe what I say, go do some research for yourself and research how the Jewish vote turned against Obama heavily after his criticism of Israel back in 2009 and 2010. Let me know when you do, because you really don't know much about American politics and Israel at all.

 

[janklow]

You don't know anything about American politics and the Jewish vote, that is very obvious.

what you don't seem to understand is that this is not an argument. this is you being SO ANGRY that i don't agree with you that you're mistaking an insult for an actual argument.

If you don't believe what I say, go do some research for yourself and research how the Jewish vote turned against Obama heavily after his criticism of Israel back in 2009 and 2010.

(sigh) this again.

i've done research for myself, and it's led me to the conclusions i have stated in this thread. next?

Let me know when you do, because you really don't know much about American politics and Israel at all.

ah, back to this "AGREE WITH ME OR YOU'RE AN IDIOT" stance. so, basically you're admitting that you can't actually defend your position? or just that you don't want to discuss the topic anymore? because it's one of those.

 

[kingblaze84]

You don't know anything about American politics and the Jewish vote, that is very obvious.

what you don't seem to understand is that this is not an argument. this is you being SO ANGRY that i don't agree with you that you're mistaking an insult for an actual argument.

If you don't believe what I say, go do some research for yourself and research how the Jewish vote turned against Obama heavily after his criticism of Israel back in 2009 and 2010.

(sigh) this again.

i've done research for myself, and it's led me to the conclusions i have stated in this thread. next?

Let me know when you do, because you really don't know much about American politics and Israel at all.

ah, back to this "AGREE WITH ME OR YOU'RE AN IDIOT" stance. so, basically you're admitting that you can't actually defend your position? or just that you don't want to discuss the topic anymore? because it's one of those.

Let me ask you a question Mr. Can't Read A Post Properly......

Why do you think the Jewish vote in America turned against Obama so dramatically in the polls last year when Obama criticized Israel's settlements? And stated that Israel should return to pre-1967 borders?

And why did the Jewish vote rebound for Obama in the polls after he kissed Israel's ass so much ?

 

[janklow]

Let me ask you a question Mr. Can't Read A Post Properly......

let me ask YOU a question: do you want to debate this topic or are you just SO ANGRY because i don't agree with you?

Why do you think the Jewish vote in America turned against Obama so dramatically in the polls last year when Obama criticized Israel's settlements? And stated that Israel should return to pre-1967 borders? And why did the Jewish vote rebound for Obama in the polls after he kissed Israel's ass so much ?

well, let's start by focusing on the fact that you've said "the Jewish vote in America turned against Obama." the Jewish vote for or against Obama wasn't exercised last year, because he wasn't up for election then. no one was voting on anything.

so now we come back to it being an approval rating thing, and nothing about how "the Jewish vote in America turned against Obama" ... and once again, i'm going to point this out to you: "[some Jews] can complain about his treatment of Israel and still vote Obama because they prefer him to the alternative. ... lowered approval ratings mean one is disappointed with the job you're doing. they do not mean one will automatically vote against you." do you think a Jewish voter can't be outraged with Obama in order to get him to CHANGE HIS POSITION?