More proof that life was not designed by a god

[The Lonious Monk]

well im glad to hear that, i will assume you are familiar with the statistic that something like 90% of physicists do not believe in god and i'd like to know what your problem is with your esteemed colleagues and their learned opinion on that subject

no, it's not recent at all

as said very clearly in the vid, we've had knowledge of this nerve for over a hundred years

no, the purpose is well known as i've said three or four times now

it allows the brain to command the larynx

no, it's nature makes perfect sense when explained by evolution

but when you propose that a designer made it thusly, it makes no sense whatsoever

this is the crux of my argument

it removes the necessity for that possibility

since you're a science guy, you know that when all need of a hypothesis disappears, that hypothesis goes into the trash with it

to re-tell an astrophysics story, when Laplace made his model of the solar system and showed it to Napoleon, the dictator asked why God was omitted from the model. Laplace replied, "I have no need of that hypothesis."

Ok, I understand the argument you're making now. I was misreading what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the nerve itself had no purpose. You're saying that the design of the nerve has no purpose other being that way as a product of evolution. I got you now.

Basically my view is this, and it also answers your question about what I think of the opinions of other physicists: science never answers why things happen. It only answers how. Religion seeks to answer why. As a result, the two are never as mutually exclusive as people try to make it. You have religious people saying that the Big Bang didn't happen because God is the one that created the universe. However, that's silly because the Big Bang is nothing more than a theory about how the universe came to be. It doesn't explain why and we don't know why. It could have been God saying "Let there be light." It could have been some reason we haven't found yet. No one knows. I don't have a problem with athiests. If you take stock of everything and come to the conclusion that God doesn't exist, I can't blame you and I won't fault you. However, through my studies of various sciences, I've come across a lot of things that scientists just dismiss as coincidence that to me look too good to be true. Do I think God is some big man sitting in the clouds? No, but I do not discount the fact that there might be a higher power out there that had a part in designing a lot of what we see today.

You say that the idea of evolution eliminates the need for the belief in a designer. I'd actually agree in the sense that a process that keeps things functioning for the long term does mean there is no need for someone to micromanage and contantly tinker with a system after that system's creation. I don't believe that evolution logically mandates that there was no one behind the design though.

As I said, evolution itself could very well be part of the initial design. Look at it this way. Say I created a computer program and I was able to give this program the ability to adapt so that it could eliminate vulnerabilities on its own making it more resistant to cyber attacks. Say I also equip it with the ability to put less emphasis on some functionality based on operator usage to the point that if certain functions are never used, these functions are stripped away to make more room for extra functionality for the things that are used. Now look at this program 10 years later, it will probably look much different than when I initially designed it. And it may be able to continue growing and changing itself so that no other program of that type will ever be needed. Does the adaptability of that program automatically mandate that I never existed? No it doesn't. Of course I existed, I was the one that started the ball rolling in the first place. It's the same thing with evolution and every other natural process in the universe. Just because the universe is self sustaining doesn't mean it wasn't designed. A being great enough to design and create the universe would certainly be great enough to make it so that the universe could exist without the creator's presence or influence.

 

[louis the great]

absolutely, glad you asked, because now you're going to be sonned bad

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.



(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

okay, so that's the slavery

here's the genocide:



(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

(1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'

So a good God should only be as good as the primitive ancient empires?

Shit.

I've never condoned genocide in my life, sorry. I vote for anti-war candidates, refuse to participate in military service, and regularly protest the imperialism of the US.

lol

you were praying i didn't have those verses on hand

definitive proof the Bible condones slavery, murder of children, genocide, etc.

disgusting.

LOL But of course you would qoute from the Old Testament. Im a Christian REMEMBER! Please qoute Christ The Saviour! If you knew anything abt Christ you would know most of the ways of the Old Teastament did not carry over into the New.

Somebody bring back some money Please!

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

LOL But of course you would qoute from the Old Testament. Im a Christian REMEMBER!

i was a christian for 20 years

don't lie to me son

christians believe that Jesus is one with the God of the old testament

Please qoute Christ The Saviour!

Matthew 5:18
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from The Law till all is fulfilled."

If you knew anything abt Christ you would know most of the ways of the Old Teastament did not carry over into the New.

And if you knew as much about the Bible as this atheist does, you'd know that the verse from Matthew I just posted means Jesus cosigned the Old Testament.

But more importantly, what a fucking liar you are.

You ask for Bible verses that show the God of the Bible endorsed slavery and genocide.

Then you say "oh, well, THOSE ONES don't count."

But you know that they do, since Christians believe that Jesus actually IS the God of the Old Testament.

Shit, what a dishonest man you are.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Ok, I understand the argument you're making now. I was misreading what you were saying.

Yeah I think I was misreading you as well, my bad.

But to respond to the why and how thing, I think those questions are actually one and the same. Answering how answers why at the same time, unless we are assuming a priori that there is a pre-determined future purpose for things.

And the computer programmer thing: Sure, but there's no evidence of a programmer at all. Possibility doesn't mean probability. We need evidence for that. And the evidence we've got now supports a naturalistic worldview.

the Big Bang is nothing more than a theory

How you gonna be a physicist and say a thing like this? You gotta know the Big Bang is supported by a mountain of evidence and that nobody of note in physics today actually has a problem with it.

The fact that you'd say this suggests that you don't even know the great weight a theory holds in science, as I think I was talking about before.\

Or maybe you're one of those physicists who thinks your "Laws" are actually superior in some way to biology's "theories." That's just nomenclature.

I've come across a lot of things that scientists just dismiss as coincidence that to me look too good to be true.

okay like what?

 

[judahxulu]

every strata IS full of intermediate forms

why?

because every form is intermediate

this is something darwin couldn't find on his own but in the time since his death, we've got that covered

deal with it

so wrong its hilarious

wrong definitively and wrong demonstratively

check this out: http://transitionalfossils.com/

lol

transitional fossils have their own dot com, dumbass

As for your first point, my premise remains undisturbed that DARWINIAN evolution is flawed.

As for the dot com. I will read thoroughly and do a comparative analysis.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

As for your first point, my premise remains undisturbed that DARWINIAN evolution is flawed.

darwin was right, living things evolve

and he admitted he didn't have enough information at the time to definitively prove it

but 150 years after darwin, we've collected plenty of proof

so basically, darwinian evolution is correct and you're mistaking darwin's willingness to submit possible objections to his own idea for some kind of admission that he was wrong

an honest scientist always proposes problems for their own propositions

the hurdles darwin set up for his own idea have been conquered since his time

deal with it

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Yeah KTULU is back. Always perverting and altering the gospel to fit his agenda.

 

[louis the great]

i was a christian for 20 years

don't lie to me son

christians believe that Jesus is one with the God of the old testament

Matthew 5:18

"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from The Law till all is fulfilled."

And if you knew as much about the Bible as this atheist does, you'd know that the verse from Matthew I just posted means Jesus cosigned the Old Testament.

But more importantly, what a fucking liar you are.

You ask for Bible verses that show the God of the Bible endorsed slavery and genocide.

Then you say "oh, well, THOSE ONES don't count."

But you know that they do, since Christians believe that Jesus actually IS the God of the Old Testament.

Shit, what a dishonest man you are.

You know you done fuck*d up right? And NO I dont believe that! Great generalization though bro!

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Yeah KTULU is back. Always perverting and altering the gospel to fit his agenda.

show me where i altered the verses i quoted, you liar

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

You know you done fuck*d up right? And NO I dont believe that! Great generalization though bro!

you claim to be a christian but you don't believe Jesus is one with his Father

okay

so you're NOT a christian

interesting shit

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

show me where i altered the verses i quoted, you liar

Jesus Christ fulfilled the requirements of the Old Testament. He did so by keeping the whole law. Something that nobody has ever done, thus He is our perfect sacrifice because He lived a sinless life. You saying that slavery is endorsed, condoned, and encouraged by God tells me that you have no clue about what you are talking about. You have no idea who God is by even insinuating that He condones slavery. Thank you come again.

 

[One Spliff]

ktulu is on point...

god is killer, murderer, he did condone rape, murder,genocide..and even destroyed whole cites himself...

the old testament and the new testament ARE ON IN THE SAME...like kutlu said, nothing chnages until all prophecies are fufuilled...scripture prooves this, and there are many prophetic scriptures from old and new testament...the laws are somethign different all together (read pauls letter to galatians, he explains it)

but u cant say the old testament is done away with.

what kutlu lacks tho, is the wisdom knowledge and udnerstaning to find the tru meaning of the scriptures...theres no contradictory if you learn your history, and udnerstand that there is a time and a place for everything.

even slavery...god enslaved his own people, and said he would send them into slavery once again for breaking his laws...but thsi time, they would be sent into slavery on ships (only 1 group of people were taken into slavery on ships)

infact, god cursed his own chosen people as much as the other wicked nations....but there was a greater sceme/plan in sight...

most importantly you need to find out who the israelites were, and who they are today, and why the whole bible revolves around the chosen people of god, the nation of israel (12 tribes)

then find out who the other nations were back then, and who they are today (use the tables of nations in genesis, aswell as other books)..most inportanlty israels arch enemy, the edomites.

also take into account, god only gave the power to break down the scriptures to his chosen 'elect' among israel., even backk then alot of the apostles and prohets did'nt understand what they were writing, or some of the teachings...

kutlu unfortuneatley is most definaatly not an israelite, and even if he was, hes most certainly not of the elect...so hes breakign down and udnerstanding of the scriptures, will never be accurate.

match up ancient hsitory, with tru meanings of words in hebrew and greek, along with modern day history and science...and the bible becomes alot clearer

 

[louis the great]

you claim to be a christian but you don't believe Jesus is one with his Father

okay

so you're NOT a christian

interesting shit

LOL Really Am.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

You have no idea who God is by even insinuating that He condones slavery.

i already posted bible verses that show the god of the bible is okay with slavery

if jesus kept the whole law, jesus did not argue with the OT law that says slavery is cool

so you are proven wrong, deal with it

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

LOL Really Am.

okay well i am not challenging your right to say you are a christian

but i do question how you can say a christian does not believe jesus is one with the father god

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Yeah I think I was misreading you as well, my bad.

But to respond to the why and how thing, I think those questions are actually one and the same. Answering how answers why at the same time, unless we are assuming a priori that there is a pre-determined future purpose for things.

Well we'll have to disagree there. I think there is a very big difference between "why" and "how." "How" just describes the mechanism behind something's functioning. Answers for the "how" question rarely give the reason for why that mechanism exists. "Why" goes deeper. It's a more fundamental question. Sometimes the two questions can result in the same answer. But when you get to the larger more fundamental questions, they don't mesh. For instance, if I ask "why are we here," from a scientific viewpoint you can supply the answer to "how" life came to be, but that doesn't necessarily answer the philisophical question I'm posing. That's why religion still exists because no matter how far our science has come, it still hasn't answered many of the questions people have in that regard.

And the computer programmer thing: Sure, but there's no evidence of a programmer at all. Possibility doesn't mean probability. We need evidence for that. And the evidence we've got now supports a naturalistic worldview.

I hate to use cliche but the absence of evidence in favor of something is not evidence against it. I understand what you're saying. It is a viable philosophy to believe in only what you can see before you. However, that's not the only way to be and it's not necessarily the best way to be. A lot of success for people has come from their belief in things that weren't necessarily supported by facts. That's where faith comes in. You either have it or you don't. It's not something that can be gained rationally.

How you gonna be a physicist and say a thing like this? You gotta know the Big Bang is supported by a mountain of evidence and that nobody of note in physics today actually has a problem with it. The fact that you'd say this suggests that you don't even know the great weight a theory holds in science, as I think I was talking about before.

Or maybe you're one of those physicists who thinks your "Laws" are actually superior in some way to biology's "theories." That's just nomenclature.

The Big Bang Theory is just that, it's a theory. It may be the most widely known and accepted theory in science, but it's not the only one. Take the Cyclic Universe Theory for instance:

http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/02/0506/0506-cyclicuniverse.htm

It is also a viable theory. That's the difference between a theory and a law. A theory is a set of proposed ideas that is used to explain some natural phenomenon. The key word is proposed meaning it's something that's put out there but it hasn't been proven true with any definite certainty. A law gives a definite description of some phenomenon and has been proven true within the scope of the law.

Newton's Laws are laws because they are absolutely true within the bounds of Newtonian physics. They have been proven and their are no alternate explanations for those relationships. Theories are generally larger in scope than laws because they seek to describe large scale phenomena whereas Law usually describe specific relationships. Theories often incorporate laws to support the theory. Laws are more fundamental and are usually built off of proven mathematical formulations. So there is a significant difference between theories in biology and laws in physics. It's not just a matter of nomenclature. I'm not saying theories aren't very important in science. They are of course, but they aren't as solid as you're suggesting, and some are definitely more close to "correct" than others. Hell, there are even theories that scientists work off of that they know don't hold up in certain areas, but they still use them because they need a direction to work towards.

okay like what?

Just the functioning of things to begin with. So many variables had to come together in a very precise way for life to even deleop the way it did in the first place. For instance, scientist recently created a very basic form of life. Athiests jumped at the chance to use that prove there was no God. What they didn't acknowledge is that it all took place in a laboratory which is a very controlled environment much different from that which life was to have supposed randomly spring from. They also used components from living things in order to create life so that's cheating. They basically did a Frankenstein job moreso than actually creating life from scratch. Lastly, they incorporated all of this in to a plan to make life. In other words, they used a designed experiment and a blueprint to create life. They didn't just throw a bunch of stuff together in a laboratory and wait till rudimentary life popped up.

Now statistically, it is possible that over the trillions of years the universe has existed and out of all the trillions of planets out there, life could have randomly sprung up on a few without any planning. That's a reasonable assertion. However, given the complexity of the system behind the creation and maintaining of life that is necessary for it to become what it is on Earth, I think it's also reasonable to say that there was an architect behind it all.

 

[musicology1985]

ktulu is on point...

god is killer, murderer, he did condone rape, murder,genocide..and even destroyed whole cites himself...

the old testament and the new testament ARE ON IN THE SAME...like kutlu said, nothing chnages until all prophecies are fufuilled...scripture prooves this, and there are many prophetic scriptures from old and new testament...the laws are somethign different all together (read pauls letter to galatians, he explains it)

but u cant say the old testament is done away with.

what kutlu lacks tho, is the wisdom knowledge and udnerstaning to find the tru meaning of the scriptures...theres no contradictory if you learn your history, and udnerstand that there is a time and a place for everything.

even slavery...god enslaved his own people, and said he would send them into slavery once again for breaking his laws...but thsi time, they would be sent into slavery on ships (only 1 group of people were taken into slavery on ships)

infact, god cursed his own chosen people as much as the other wicked nations....but there was a greater sceme/plan in sight...

most importantly you need to find out who the israelites were, and who they are today, and why the whole bible revolves around the chosen people of god, the nation of israel (12 tribes)

then find out who the other nations were back then, and who they are today (use the tables of nations in genesis, aswell as other books)..most inportanlty israels arch enemy, the edomites.

also take into account, god only gave the power to break down the scriptures to his chosen 'elect' among israel., even backk then alot of the apostles and prohets did'nt understand what they were writing, or some of the teachings...

kutlu unfortuneatley is most definaatly not an israelite, and even if he was, hes most certainly not of the elect...so hes breakign down and udnerstanding of the scriptures, will never be accurate.

match up ancient hsitory, with tru meanings of words in hebrew and greek, along with modern day history and science...and the bible becomes alot clearer

WOW that last part was super on point. just a quick question (not tryna be funny)

but do u really speak Hebrew AND GREEK? really?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

God is a killer, but he's not a murderer. Murder is defined as an unlawful killing. Since God is the Law, killings he commits by definition cannot be murder. Show me where God condoned rape. I know he impregnated women without their knowledge or consent, but he wasn't Zeus, he didn't actually have sex with them to do that. He didn't commit genocide either. Genocide would mean he killed a whole race. Nowhere in the Bible did he do that (aside from the great flood). He did kill or assist in killing whole towns and cities, but those people were warned and chose to disregard the warning.

I think calling God a murderer is a misrepresentation, but I do think he did some questionable things. For example, in the Joshua/Jericho story, the Israelite army killed every living thing in the city with God's permission. It's my understanding that the people in that town hadn't really done anything besides be on the land that God promised to the Israelites. Why would he back the wholesale killing of all those people for nothing more than existing. The same applies in the stories with King David. In many of their battles, they completely eliminated whole cities killing everyone that lived there. Why go that far?

I also disagree that the Old Testament and New Testament should be treated the same. The New Testament represents a new approach by God. In the Old Testament, there was a lot of hard core punishing of people for their sins. The New Testament does away with that and uses Jesus' sacrifice to deal with the sinful nature of Man. That doesn't mean that the Law has been done away. It also doesn't mean that those who cling to sin won't eventually be punished. It does however mean that we don't go stoning people for commiting sins. We urge them to sincerely repent and strive to overcome their sinful nature.

 

[judahxulu]

@ The Lonious Monk. You have specialized knowledge in physics, yes? Whats the deal with the Higgs Boson?? From my rudimentary understanding of it, it seems to be relevant to the topic.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

@ The Lonious Monk. You have specialized knowledge in physics, yes? Whats the deal with the Higgs Boson?? From my rudimentary understanding of it, it seems to be relevant to the topic.

The Higgs Boson is basically a particle that produces a field that gives everything else mass. So basically all matter exists the way we know it due to exposure to the Higgs Field. That's why it's called the "God Particle." It is predicted by the Standard Model used in particle physics, but it is the only particle that has not actually been observed. It receives a lot of attention because it would explain a lot of things that are questioned in particle physics.