More proof that life was not designed by a god

[KTULU IS BACK]

this doesnt disprove god in any way............

it proves mammals are not intelligently designed

thats the point here, obviously

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Evolution is a theory,

evolution is an observed verified fact

and also a theory

the fact is made available through observation and experimentation

the theory is the explanation of how the observed facts actually work

for the millionth time, the word "theory" in the context of science does not mean "guess." it means a set of explanations for observed phenomena. evolution is one such phenomenon.

Darwinian evolution is full of holes.

Post some, please.

 

[oliverlang]

I wonder why if god is supposed to be an all loving and caring god, why do some animals have to survive by killing others? God enjoys suffering and death I suppose. If he was really an all loving and caring god he would have designed animals with the ability to not kill in order to live. If you designed something, wouldn't you want to make it as perfect as possible? And if YOU are in fact perfect, is it even an option to make something that is imperfect? There are many examples that show the imperfection of animals.

 

[kingblaze84]

Not when ur brother is in total denial of his salvation. He can keep his ass wit Satan and every other Demonic manifestation on this planet. The time is upon us to call these decievers and infiltrators who are against Christ out! Either you are with the Rightoues or You are with Satan! Let it be known!

You seem too smart a guy to believe in that Christian bullshit. You really think the Bible is a book to be taken seriously? It supports genocide and slavery, fuck that book.....you should know better than to support a disgusting book like that. Do some research on it and you will see for yourself.

 

[kingblaze84]

I wonder why if god is supposed to be an all loving and caring god, why do some animals have to survive by killing others? God enjoys suffering and death I suppose. If he was really an all loving and caring god he would have designed animals with the ability to not kill in order to live. If you designed something, wouldn't you want to make it as perfect as possible? And if YOU are in fact perfect, is it even an option to make something that is imperfect? There are many examples that show the imperfection of animals.

I've always wondered this too. God, as I have always thought, seems to enjoy watching others being eaten and killed. There's no other way around it. The god we have is obviously a being with perhaps much good, but just as much evil.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

no

they understand it perfectly

the nerve is a product of evolution and not design

deal with it

Evolution and design don't even clash in that way unless you're assuming that the ability to adapt over time wasn't a part of the design to begin with. Again your logic is faulty. People who believe that God created everything believe exactly that, that he created EVERYTHING including the natural systems at work from the gravitational force holding the planets in orbit down to the genetics that allow organic systems to adapt to changing environments over time. Once again, saying that life couldn't have been done by design just because scientists have found a vestigial artifact in the human body is poor logic. And once again, they don't understand it perfectly. Your initial post implies that their perception is that there is "no good reason" for the presence of the nerve. That shows they don't know what it's for because whether you believe in design or evolution, one thing is always true, there is no such thing as a body having pieces that never at any point had a purpose.

On a side note, athiests who go out of their way to try and prove to religious people that their faiths are bunk are idiots. At least with Christians, a tenent of their faith is to spread the Word, so there is a reason why hey are always trying to push it onto people. Their is no such thing in atheism. If you don't believe in God, that's cool, do you. What's the point of going out of your way to try and convince people of your belief. Having debates and discussions about it is cool, but you seem to go out of your way to try and bash the belief in God like you're going to win some prize or something if you win. If you're right, you'll eventually be rotting in the ground like everyone else, so congratulations.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

just because scientists have found a vestigial artifact in the human body

have a look at the first post

is that a human body they're dissecting? shit, i hope it isn't. it's twelve feet tall and weighs a ton.

the issue here is this, I'll explain it very plainly: mammals have this nerve in their neck that runs from the brain to the larynx. but instead of just going straight from the brain to that organ, it goes down past that larynx, curves around a major portion of the heart, and then goes back up. it does this for NO REASON. there is no benefit from it and no engineer in their right mind would DESIGN such a thing.

now in the giraffe this nerve is even more ridiculous because that animal's neck is hilariously long. so this nerve has to go an extra six feet for no reason and also wraps around vital parts of the heart, which can cause severe drawbacks when the animal is stressed.

the entire point here is that this giraffe dissection is a prime example of exactly why we know that living things were not designed.

we know they evolved.

it's a fact.

you can deal with it.

there is no such thing as a body having pieces that never at any point had a purpose.

oh really? you've never seen a person (or animal) with a useless deformity caused by a genetic malady or a simple unfortunate failure of chromosomal interaction in the reproductive process?

evolution explains these problems perfectly. if you go with the god hypothesis, you have to make up ridiculous excuses to explain why a PERFECT designer would design so many shitty forms.

Your initial post implies that their perception is that there is "no good reason" for the presence of the nerve.

No dummy. The reason is laid out clearly. You just didn't take the time to listen. The reason that nerve is there is because evolution has no long term plan. As they explain perfectly succinctly in the vid, the nerve is a holdover from when animals didn't have long neck structures. The reason it exists the way it does is that evolution doesn't have a plan, like a supposed designer God would. This is why the "god made life" explanation is faulty and the "evolution is real" explanation works perfectly.

Sonned, sonned, sonned.

 

[louis the great]

You seem too smart a guy to believe in that Christian bullshit. You really think the Bible is a book to be taken seriously? It supports genocide and slavery, fuck that book.....you should know better than to support a disgusting book like that. Do some research on it and you will see for yourself.

I to was once a non believer for a very long time despite the fact my mother and family attended Church every sunday when I was a child. Untill I was blessed with Context, Understanding, Love and Peace the Bible didnt make alot of sense to me either. I've done more research and have spent a many of days and nights denouceing Christ and the Creator than you would ever believe. I still to this very day refuse to attend a church service because the Truth is not in those MEN whatsoever and if you read the Bible this is said and foretold. As far as youre comments that it supports Genocide and Slavery is in a sense a reach but lets put that into context a little. Slavery not ( American Anglo-Saxon Slavery Which you Refer ) was a widely practiced in the Ancient World with out a doubt. The "Real Isrealites" were slaves for almost 500 years and were delivered out of it by the grace of God. As far as Genocide I'm not even goin to touch on that one.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

As far as Genocide I'm not even goin to touch on that one.

why not?

because you know the bible says god commanded the hebrews to wipe out entire tribes? to kill women and children?

why would you let that off the hook?

the bible even says slavery is just fine as long as you don't kill your slaves.

lol

how can a "loving" god say that you can own other human beings and beat them?

shit is ridiculous

 

[The Lonious Monk]

have a look at the first post

is that a human body they're dissecting? shit, i hope it isn't. it's twelve feet tall and weighs a ton.

You said this nerve was present in mammals. Last time I checked humans were mammals.

the issue here is this, I'll explain it very plainly: mammals have this nerve in their neck that runs from the brain to the larynx. but instead of just going straight from the brain to that organ, it goes down past that larynx, curves around a major portion of the heart, and then goes back up. it does this for NO REASON. there is no benefit from it and no engineer in their right mind would DESIGN such a thing.

Once again them not understanding or knowing what the reason for it does not equate to it not having a purpose. Sure, no engineer would design anything with a characteristic they don't understand. However, humans are the ones who haven't figured out the purpose of the nerve and last time I checked, no one is suggesting that humans designed life. The religion argument aside, you really have to be pretty dense to believe scientists not understanding the purpose of something means it has no purpose. As a scientist myself, I can tell you that there are tons of things that seem to have no reason to exist only for that reason to be found a few months later.

now in the giraffe this nerve is even more ridiculous because that animal's neck is hilariously long. so this nerve has to go an extra six feet for no reason and also wraps around vital parts of the heart, which can cause severe drawbacks when the animal is stressed.

Again, us not knowing the reason doesn't mean there was no reason. Mammals have been around for millions of years. It's quite possible that the reason for that artifact simply doesn't exist anymore and as a result it's functioning no longer applies.

the entire point here is that this giraffe dissection is a prime example of exactly why we know that living things were not designed.

we know they evolved.

it's a fact.

you can deal with it.

Again this "evidence" doesn't prove what you're asserting in any way. For all you know, the ability for this nerve to become inert when it is no longer needed was part of the original design. That's all beside the point though because scientist discovering something they don't understand is never proof of anything other than the fact that human knowledge is finite and ever evolving.

oh really? you've never seen a person (or animal) with a useless deformity caused by a genetic malady or a simple unfortunate failure of chromosomal interaction in the reproductive process?

evolution explains these problems perfectly. if you go with the god hypothesis, you have to make up ridiculous excuses to explain why a PERFECT designer would design so many shitty forms.

Are you serious right now? Are you really comparing a vestial component of the mammalian makeup to a deformity? Do I need to even explain why that's stupid? If you don't see the difference between something that is thought to be part of a whole Phylum of animals and a person having an extra toe, we probably should just stop this discussion right here.

No dummy. The reason is laid out clearly. You just didn't take the time to listen. The reason that nerve is there is because evolution has no long term plan. As they explain perfectly succinctly in the vid, the nerve is a holdover from when animals didn't have long neck structures. The reason it exists the way it does is that evolution doesn't have a plan, like a supposed designer God would. This is why the "god made life" explanation is faulty and the "evolution is real" explanation works perfectly.

Genius, if you would look at what I've been saying, I clearly understand it. I've been saying the whole time that whatever that nerve was probably had a function at one time when it was necessary and now doesn't. You're the one that's saying it has no purpose and would never have been included in the body by any reasonable engineer. My point has never been that things don't evolve. My point is that equipping things to evolve along with an evolving environment, is design of the highest order. Saying that life wasn't designed because there is a mechanism in place that allows living systems to evolve over time is short sighted and stupid. Just because you wouldn't have been smart enough to foresee such things and plan for it doesn't mean God wouldn't have been.

Sonned, sonned, sonned.

Sorry but you haven't sonned anything. Being in the science field I run into a lot of athiests and I have heard a lot of good arguments against the existence of a God. I'm not against people who don't believe. You're just not a very good debater. You don't form cogent arguments to support your claims. You just troll for any reason to mock God and latch on to anything you find even if the implications aren't as far reaching as you believe them to be.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Being in the science field

really

what do you do in the "science field" son

athiests

atheists

e before i

i didnt read the rest of your post by the way because youre fucking ridiculous

i might get around to it later but probably not

i read this part tho:

humans are the ones who haven't figured out the purpose of the nerve

no, dummy

we know the purpose of the nerve, i've said it several times, it's in the video repeatedly

its a connection from the brain to the larynx

the only question about it is why a DESIGNER would make it loop six extra feet down the neck of a giraffe

this is why it's more proof that a god didn't make life

christ on a bike you're an idiot

i won't believe you're any kind of scientist unless you drop mad serious credentials and even then i'm just saddened by how dumb you are

 

[The Lonious Monk]

really

what do you do in the "science field" son

Physicist by training, research analyst of new technologies by profession.

You're funny. You make a terrible argument, and the best you can come back with is that I'm dumb. As I've said multiple times, the nerve probably had a function at one point, but due to environmental changes, it is no longer necessary. That's how evolution works and that's what leads to vestigial organs. All this find proves is that such a mechanism exists in nature. The presence of that mechanism is not solid proof that there was no design behind life. Honestly, you don't know what you're talking about, so arguing with you is a waste of time. So, I'll stop here, but you feel free to keep trolling.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

makes sense, physics and engineering guys tend to have these incredible misconceptions about biology

but then again, what does "by training" mean?

you got a degree or are you some kind of bullshitter?

 

[judahxulu]

evolution is an observed verified fact

and also a theory

the fact is made available through observation and experimentation

the theory is the explanation of how the observed facts actually work

for the millionth time, the word "theory" in the context of science does not mean "guess." it means a set of explanations for observed phenomena. evolution is one such phenomenon.

Post some, please.

3 words.

causa non causa.

"The number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on Earth must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory."

Darwin- Origin of Species

There is no proof in the fossil records of any transitional species that bridge the gaps.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

"The number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on Earth must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links?

every strata IS full of intermediate forms

why?

because every form is intermediate

this is something darwin couldn't find on his own but in the time since his death, we've got that covered

deal with it

There is no proof in the fossil records of any transitional species that bridge the gaps.

so wrong its hilarious

wrong definitively and wrong demonstratively

check this out: http://transitionalfossils.com/

lol

transitional fossils have their own dot com, dumbass

 

[The Lonious Monk]

makes sense, physics and engineering guys tend to have these incredible misconceptions about biology

but then again, what does "by training" mean?

you got a degree or are you some kind of bullshitter?

Yes, I have a Master's degree and I've completed all my coursework and qualifiers in the PhD. program too. My project was dropped due to funding before I could to a point where I defend it though, and by that time I was too burnt out to start all over. I'll go back and finish when my money is stacked up and I'm financially stable enough to go back.

I will admit that biology is not my field by training, but I understand enough to know the flaw in your argument Maybe I'm misunderstanding you so correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the crux of your argument:

Scientists have recently found a nerve in the giraffe and most likely all other mammals of a purpose which they do not know. The nature of this nerve is perplexing and doesn't seem to have a point. You believe that no good designer would create such a thing, so God couldn't have designed life as a whole.

The crux of my argument is this:

Just because scientists don't understand the purpose of the nerve doesn't mean it never had a purpose. It may be a product of evolution and is vestigial at this point. However, the idea that living systems adapt to changing environments over time does not negate the possibility of a design being at play.

Now if you want, you can dispense with all the name calling and tell me what you believe is truly wrong with what I'm saying.

 

[louis the great]

why not?

because you know the bible says god commanded the hebrews to wipe out entire tribes? to kill women and children?

why would you let that off the hook?

the bible even says slavery is just fine as long as you don't kill your slaves.

lol

how can a "loving" god say that you can own other human beings and beat them?

shit is ridiculous

Please qoute The Book, Chapter and Verse you speak of. In this world especially in Ancient Times really as now War has always been apart of the world. Sometimes its Kill or be Killed, Conquer or be Conquered! Dont be a idiot my friend this is the way of the world. LOL@ God condoneing Genocide, and you condoneing the Genocide America has placed on Countless Cultures on this Planet.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Yes, I have a Master's degree and I've completed all my coursework and qualifiers in the PhD. program too. My project was dropped due to funding before I could to a point where I defend it though, and by that time I was too burnt out to start all over. I'll go back and finish when my money is stacked up and I'm financially stable enough to go back.

well im glad to hear that, i will assume you are familiar with the statistic that something like 90% of physicists do not believe in god and i'd like to know what your problem is with your esteemed colleagues and their learned opinion on that subject

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you so correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the crux of your argument:

Scientists have recently found a nerve in the giraffe

no, it's not recent at all

as said very clearly in the vid, we've had knowledge of this nerve for over a hundred years

and most likely all other mammals of a purpose which they do not know.

no, the purpose is well known as i've said three or four times now

it allows the brain to command the larynx

The nature of this nerve is perplexing and doesn't seem to have a point.

no, it's nature makes perfect sense when explained by evolution

but when you propose that a designer made it thusly, it makes no sense whatsoever

this is the crux of my argument

the idea that living systems adapt to changing environments over time does not negate the possibility of a design being at play.

it removes the necessity for that possibility

since you're a science guy, you know that when all need of a hypothesis disappears, that hypothesis goes into the trash with it

to re-tell an astrophysics story, when Laplace made his model of the solar system and showed it to Napoleon, the dictator asked why God was omitted from the model. Laplace replied, "I have no need of that hypothesis."

 

[Ol Jay's]

now in the giraffe this nerve is even more ridiculous because that animal's neck is hilariously long. so this nerve has to go an extra six feet for no reason and also wraps around vital parts of the heart, which can cause severe drawbacks when the animal is stressed.

god put all beings here to survive with faith and stressing sir shows a lack in faith, therefor the nerve you described sir has a purpose to inflict suffering for lack of faith

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Please qoute The Book, Chapter and Verse you speak of.

absolutely, glad you asked, because now you're going to be sonned bad

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.


(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

okay, so that's the slavery

here's the genocide:

(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

(1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'

In this world especially in Ancient Times really as now War has always been apart of the world. Sometimes its Kill or be Killed, Conquer or be Conquered! Dont be a idiot my friend this is the way of the world.

So a good God should only be as good as the primitive ancient empires?

Shit.

LOL@ God condoneing Genocide, and you condoneing the Genocide America has placed on Countless Cultures on this Planet.

I've never condoned genocide in my life, sorry. I vote for anti-war candidates, refuse to participate in military service, and regularly protest the imperialism of the US.

lol

you were praying i didn't have those verses on hand

definitive proof the Bible condones slavery, murder of children, genocide, etc.

disgusting.