Kool Moe Dee on Jay-Z vs Nas emcee battle

[Kwan Dai]

I'm with you on this. I definitely believe he was a lyrical dude, but he's not in my top 15-20. However, people like what they like so it is what it is. I definitely think if he would have been able to start off around 88/89 he would be more appreciated for his skills. His albums just never did it for me overall.

It's not about liking what people like. There is no argument that Moe Dee's production on his albums, and even his rhymes don't necessarily fit into the landscape today but the larger point here is being missed. And that is, MOE DEE was fire in his day not just for his Rhyme Skill. But his Skill that changed MCing forever, same with Spoonie G, Melle Mel, Ice T etc. In addition to this contribution, his performing at the Grammys, winning a grammy, givng a young upstart like Teddy Riley a shot at making Music for one of the biggest MC's at the time. Moe Dee's list of accomplishments is, enormous. Whether we agree as to who won or not. His battle with LL was EPIC. That was Nas vs. Jayz of the time.

Yall cats are just simply seeing the Glass half full and that's ok. We can see things differently but for many of you, you are doing so, with no foundation, and weak to non-existent history of Hip Hop. It's quite sad actually. I mean for a cat to say What about Record sales. WTF. MOE DEE was RHYMING in Parks and at clubs when there was no industry. Then went on to become one of the first SOLO artist to get a deal. Then, to ask what about longevity. Come on? WTH. The dude was 10+ years into the game by 1990. Not to mention we are talking about him 30 years later.

Anyways, this is a no win. Just putting some history up on this piece of shit forum.

 

[Kwan Dai]

these young niggas dont know shit, they aint from our era Kwan or even know bout this hip-hop shit.

KOOL MOE DEE IS TOP 10 EMCEE OF ALL TIMES with Grandmaster Caz, Grandmaster Melle Mel

Easily Top 10 but these busters have no clue. They can't see past Soundscan, Videos, TMZ and MTV.

 

[cobbland]

Oh and LL ethered Kool Moe Dee and Nelly ethered KRS-ONE. So we see why Moe Dee feels the way he feels.

why is it that these old ass rappers never think that anybody from the newer generation can be there peer or counterpart when it comes to certain aspects of emceeing, let these niggas tell it they had the dopest beats, the illest bars, and nastiest concepts in all of music history

delusional ass old niggas make me sick

Kool Moo Dee is one of the greatest what ???? LOL

Like what?

Give me one person who got Kool Moo Dee in their top 15, shit even top 20 rap artists

No... just stop. U dudes mad old school

Sales - fail

Longevity - SUPER fail

Undeniable classic album - fail

He'll be remembered for his battle with LL

LMAO Kill yourself, literally !

I'm with you on this. I definitely believe he was a lyrical dude, but he's not in my top 15-20. However, people like what they like so it is what it is. I definitely think if he would have been able to start off around 88/89 he would be more appreciated for his skills. His albums just never did it for me overall.

Not a young Nigga, and the list you mentioned is hilarious!

Oh and LL ethered Kool Moe Dee and Nelly ethered KRS-ONE. So we see why Moe Dee feels the way he feels.

why is it that these old ass rappers never think that anybody from the newer generation can be there peer or counterpart when it comes to certain aspects of emceeing, let these niggas tell it they had the dopest beats, the illest bars, and nastiest concepts in all of music history

delusional ass old niggas make me sick

Kool Moo Dee is one of the greatest what ???? LOL

Like what?

Give me one person who got Kool Moo Dee in their top 15, shit even top 20 rap artists

No... just stop. U dudes mad old school

Sales - fail

Longevity - SUPER fail

Undeniable classic album - fail

He'll be remembered for his battle with LL

LMAO Kill yourself, literally !

I'm with you on this. I definitely believe he was a lyrical dude, but he's not in my top 15-20. However, people like what they like so it is what it is. I definitely think if he would have been able to start off around 88/89 he would be more appreciated for his skills. His albums just never did it for me overall.

Not a young Nigga, and the list you mentioned is hilarious!

........................................................

Keith Murray: Those are our forefathers. You got George Washington. You got Abraham Lincoln. You got all of them. Those are our forefathers. Kool Herc, Russell Simmons.

Canibus: And they earned that respect. If you think about those sacrifices. If he didn’t come downstairs and just stayed put, I think it was in a book…

Keith Murray: And you can’t forget about Rick Rubin too, who was the liberal white guy that held the flag for black people.

Canibus: That’s right. Rubin put his neck in the guillotine to make sure that Hip Hop music got heard on a wide-scale level, on a global scale. Like I said, it’s a travesty when you see these names get taken out their slots because if you can take those names out of the slots then naturally artists like me and Murray is gonna definitely be dealing with a headache when it comes to that because if you took the real pioneers out of them slots, then that means the second wave like Murray and the third or fourth wave like myself, it’s almost inevitable that that would’ve happened.

And the most important thing that I’m trying to get across to you and to the listeners and the readers is that if these things happen to the first wave of Hip Hop, the second wave and the, third wave…we’re in the fourth and fifth wave right now and all the subsequent waves that are gonna come after, they need to realize that if those things were done to us, what the fuck do you think is gonna happen to you?

DX: Definitely something to think about.

Canibus: Before you know it, one day they’re gonna turn around, just like it happened to us. One day they’re gonna turn around and people are gonna be calling them irrelevant but it’s gonna be something even worse. They think that’s all they got to look forward to. It’s gonna be something even worse. Possibly something where it’s freedom of speech … It’s possible when you’re dealing with something like the Internet, it’s very possible that certain things that’s written on the Internet. Those words could be keyed in and you could be booted off the Internet. So now people could be regulating your speech. Then what you think hip-hop will sound like?

Keith Murray: It’s gonna be robotic.

DX: It’s definitely not gonna sound like what’s it’s supposed to...

Canibus: No. That’s what we’re gonna be saying, but the people who are gonna be listening to it and loving it. And dudes like us are gonna be saying ‘Yo man. I don’t give a fuck about that old shit. I like it the way it is.’ And dudes like us are gonna be running around tight at it and ostracized from it. And so that’s my point.



http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/inter...h-murray-the-undergods-hip-hop-bounty-hunters

 

[monolithicpaw]

So, instead of you checking yourself you tried to check me and it backfired. Your lack of knowledge and research is what was unmanly. I didn't need Wiki. The post you responded to clearly pointed out the year 1990. I copied wiki so your already fractured leg would completely broken given you nothing left to stand on. I don't come here talking out my ass or seeking attention. If, I take the time to post it's because, I know very well of the things I choose to write on.

I will agree to disagree that Moe Dee was relevant come 1990. However, I will again give you a tidbit. Moe Dee had worked with Teddy Riley long before the NEW JACK SWING era. And if there was any MC that capitalized on that era it would be Big Daddy Kane. Perhaps you are just confused yet again?

I generally don't need to do research because I lived and breathed it ,during that era. so I rely on memory when it comes to talking about the past. my response to the inital post was that Moe Dee was relevant because the biggest star of the time, stayed dissing him. Jingling Baby, Break of Dawn, Jack the Ripper. this was over a 2 3 year span at the height of LL's career. So only the misinformed would venture to call KMD a relic when the biggest star is dissing him, As far as Kane he falls into that "OTHERS" in my previous post. along w Heavy D. Salt and Peppa etc.

Your feelings of inferiority are becoming mmore evident. I man up and say I misquoted, and you still want to beat a dead horse. No confusion just amusement.

 

[coolc31]

It's not about liking what people like. There is no argument that Moe Dee's production on his albums, and even his rhymes don't necessarily fit into the landscape today but the larger point here is being missed. And that is, MOE DEE was fire in his day not just for his Rhyme Skill. But his Skill that changed MCing forever, same with Spoonie G, Melle Mel, Ice T etc. In addition to this contribution, his performing at the Grammys, winning a grammy, givng a young upstart like Teddy Riley a shot at making Music for one of the biggest MC's at the time. Moe Dee's list of accomplishments is, enormous. Whether we agree as to who won or not. His battle with LL was EPIC. That was Nas vs. Jayz of the time.

Yall cats are just simply seeing the Glass half full and that's ok. We can see things differently but for many of you, you are doing so, with no foundation, and weak to non-existent history of Hip Hop. It's quite sad actually. I mean for a cat to say What about Record sales. WTF. MOE DEE was RHYMING in Parks and at clubs when there was no industry. Then went on to become one of the first SOLO artist to get a deal. Then, to ask what about longevity. Come on? WTH. The dude was 10+ years into the game by 1990. Not to mention we are talking about him 30 years later.

Anyways, this is a no win. Just putting some history up on this piece of shit forum.

You can't tell me what my top 20 is or should be. You can rank him top 10 off what he brought to the game if you want. I'm basing it on what I like to hear. I listen to hip-hop music. I stop living the hip-hop culture once I got married & had to take care of my family. I'm not knocking you for how you see things because it seems as if you're really into hip-hop like that. I guess you can say I'm a casual fan now. As far as my top 15, I have Lord Finesse, Masta Ace & Grand Puba as artists ahead of him & it's not necessarily based on their skills. It's what I want to listen to & music I really appreciated when it came out. I didn't get into Moe Dee like that even though I have all his albums.

 

[Who Cares???]

LL>>>>>>>KMD. I been on hip hop since forever, but I dont have to be cliche to prove it. KMD being top 10 is laughable. Nigga was an original hater who got broke down by a true 10 ten emcee, LL.

 

[Kwan Dai]

I generally don't need to do research because I lived and breathed it ,during that era. so I rely on memory when it comes to talking about the past. my response to the inital post was that Moe Dee was relevant because the biggest star of the time, stayed dissing him. Jingling Baby, Break of Dawn, Jack the Ripper. this was over a 2 3 year span at the height of LL's career. So only the misinformed would venture to call KMD a relic when the biggest star is dissing him, As far as Kane he falls into that "OTHERS" in my previous post. along w Heavy D. Salt and Peppa etc.

Your feelings of inferiority are becoming mmore evident. I man up and say I misquoted, and you still want to beat a dead horse. No confusion just amusement.

As did I. So, you aren't saying nothing at all homey. I too gave you what was right from my memory. Which, again was spot on. But we are supposed to sit here read from some one arrogant enough to just post without verification? Then tell some one to shut up and do their History. You are a joke. Fall back. You opened this can or worms. Next time think first and verify before you go popping off.

 

[Kwan Dai]

You can't tell me what my top 20 is or should be. You can rank him top 10 off what he brought to the game if you want. I'm basing it on what I like to hear. I listen to hip-hop music. I stop living the hip-hop culture once I got married & had to take care of my family. I'm not knocking you for how you see things because it seems as if you're really into hip-hop like that. I guess you can say I'm a casual fan now. As far as my top 15, I have Lord Finesse, Masta Ace & Grand Puba as artists ahead of him & it's not necessarily based on their skills. It's what I want to listen to & music I really appreciated when it came out. I didn't get into Moe Dee like that even though I have all his albums.

I didn't attempt to tell what you should or shouldn't do. I was pointing out why he can be STRONGLY considered for a such a high spot. As well as, folks just boiling their own decision down to record sales, and longevity for an artist who is probably very close to 50. Which, again we can all have our own criterion, opinion etc it just helps when it's done with a good agruement.

Lord Finesses, Masta Ace and Puba are all artists worthy of very high spots as well. I am all to familiar with these artists and their contributions as well so, you wont get much argument out of me. But I bet a stack over 90% of the posters here couldn't give you any background on these ground breaking MC's either. And it would dismiss them based on weak knowledge.

I never got into Moe Dee like that either. I just know he was huge when I was growing up and his many, many contributions to Hip Hop in various capacities.

 

[monolithicpaw]

It's not about liking what people like. There is no argument that Moe Dee's production on his albums, and even his rhymes don't necessarily fit into the landscape today but the larger point here is being missed. And that is, MOE DEE was fire in his day not just for his Rhyme Skill. But his Skill that changed MCing forever, same with Spoonie G, Melle Mel, Ice T etc. In addition to this contribution, his performing at the Grammys, winning a grammy, givng a young upstart like Teddy Riley a shot at making Music for one of the biggest MC's at the time. Moe Dee's list of accomplishments is, enormous. Whether we agree as to who won or not. His battle with LL was EPIC. That was Nas vs. Jayz of the time.

Yall cats are just simply seeing the Glass half full and that's ok. We can see things differently but for many of you, you are doing so, with no foundation, and weak to non-existent history of Hip Hop. It's quite sad actually. I mean for a cat to say What about Record sales. WTF. MOE DEE was RHYMING in Parks and at clubs when there was no industry. Then went on to become one of the first SOLO artist to get a deal. Then, to ask what about longevity. Come on? WTH. The dude was 10+ years into the game by 1990. Not to mention we are talking about him 30 years later.

Anyways, this is a no win. Just putting some history up on this piece of shit forum.

You can't tell me what my top 20 is or should be. You can rank him top 10 off what he brought to the game if you want. I'm basing it on what I like to hear. I listen to hip-hop music. I stop living the hip-hop culture once I got married & had to take care of my family. I'm not knocking you for how you see things because it seems as if you're really into hip-hop like that. I guess you can say I'm a casual fan now. As far as my top 15, I have Lord Finesse, Masta Ace & Grand Puba as artists ahead of him & it's not necessarily based on their skills. It's what I want to listen to & music I really appreciated when it came out. I didn't get into Moe Dee like that even though I have all his albums.

As did I. So, you aren't saying nothing at all homey. I too gave you what was right from my memory. Which, again was spot on. But we are supposed to sit here read from some one arrogant enough to just post without verification? Then tell some one to shut up and do their History. You are a joke. Fall back. You opened this can or worms. Next time think first and verify before you go popping off.

Can of worms? You cant call KMD a relic and then eloquently speak of his accomplishments of that era. Sounds like someone who speaks from the outside. you are missing the point. thats why you all bent out of shape.

 

[Kwan Dai]

LL>>>>>>>KMD. I been on hip hop since forever, but I dont have to be cliche to prove it. KMD being top 10 is laughable. Nigga was an original hater who got broke down by a true 10 ten emcee, LL.

You don't have to prove anything. However it does help to write coherent posts that aid good discussion and given a little background on artists that many just don't have a clue as to their accomplishments. And to your point there is plenty of History and information that all Moe Dee was an original hater. But you already knew that. As to who won the battle that's ones own opinion which, doesn't need any discussion.

 

[Kwan Dai]

Can of worms? You cant call KMD a relic and then eloquently speak of his accomplishments of that era. apples and oranges. your missing the point. thats why you are bent out of shape.

Fam? I SAID BY 1990. He was a relic. Moe Dee's hay day was 10+ years before that. MOE DEE was Rhyming in the 70's doing Movies Early 80's. By 1990 he was trying to keep up with the second movement of MC's. LL, RAKIM, KANE, KRS,. Do you not realize MOE DEE was these DUDES IDOL? It's not a DISS MOE DEE in my opinion is the MAN. But by 1990 it was all but said and done. Hip Hop had shifted dramatically and unfortunately Moe Dee wasn't that big of a player come 1990.

 

[monolithicpaw]

The biggest hit of Moe Dee's career was in 88. He also had a gold album afterwards. which was very good for the time, the biggest star in the history of rap up till that point has made at least 3 songs dissing you. the last of which appeared on his most succesful album in 1990. Many rappers today would sell they momma to have that happen to them. Dont back pedal now. it's all good. We've gone through all of this for us to agree that he was not a relic. Now he's not "that big of a player".

 

[waterproof]

LMAO Kill yourself, literally !

Not a young Nigga, and the list you mentioned is hilarious!

Again yall dont know shit about emceeing Kool Moe Dee, CAZ and Melle Mel is greats and you can put them in any area and they will be the top emcee's

 

[waterproof]

Easily Top 10 but these busters have no clue. They can't see past Soundscan, Videos, TMZ and MTV.

By the way you is killing these niggas on Moe Dee, emceeing and the culture of hip-hop. I like to see what your top 10 looks like, here's mine.

1) 2pac Shakur
2) Nas
3) Rakim
4) Grand Master Melle
5) Big Daddy Kane
6) Kool Moe Dee
7) ICE-CUBE
8) KRS-1
9) THE DOC
10) Grandmaster CAZ/Biggie Smalls

 

[waterproof]

LL>>>>>>>KMD. I been on hip hop since forever, but I dont have to be cliche to prove it. KMD being top 10 is laughable. Nigga was an original hater who got broke down by a true 10 ten emcee, LL.

LL is an all time great but he's not in my top 10, the niggas lost to many BIG BATTLES, those L's to Moe Dee and Canibus dropped him to 11-15, I mean he's a legend and have classic albums but i go with the whole essence of emceeing.

You do know that LL used to be shook of Moe Dee and never wanted to battle him on stage and used to bounce out when Moe Dee was in the house

 

[waterproof]

It must be one of the JIGGA WARRIORS that moved the thread, this is not only talking about the battle but the art of emceeing

 

[bankrupt baller]

their company wasnt named after the real rockefeller,the guy they named their company after did die of aids...fact.

as far as getting chased through the building,you have no clue if it happened or not so you cant call it fact.

so jay z can say he lost,bleek can admit it and jay can damn near cry on the radio afterwards yet jay still won on the ic?

lol "the internet aint real"

........................

 

[monolithicpaw]

By the way you is killing these niggas on Moe Dee, emceeing and the culture of hip-hop. I like to see what your top 10 looks like, here's mine.

1) 2pac Shakur

2) Nas

3) Rakim

4) Grand Master Melle

5) Big Daddy Kane

6) Kool Moe Dee

7) ICE-CUBE

8) KRS-1

9) THE DOC

10) Grandmaster CAZ/Biggie Smalls

He has done nothing but recite facts that can be copy and pasted from wikipedia. And calling Moe Dee a relic at the height of his success constitutes killing of self. Don't know about you guys. but I came from a school where we didn't call pioneers relics. as far as whose greatest. It's all opinion and just because Caz aint mine dont mean you're any greater a participant than I am. Props for having D.O.C. on your list. IMO He is the greatest unkown and tragedy in Hip Hop. If anyone deserved to have a voice from that era it was him.

 

[monolithicpaw]

LL is an all time great but he's not in my top 10, the niggas lost to many BIG BATTLES, those L's to Moe Dee and Canibus dropped him to 11-15, I mean he's a legend and have classic albums but i go with the whole essence of emceeing.

You do know that LL used to be shook of Moe Dee and never wanted to battle him on stage and used to bounce out when Moe Dee was in the house

LL used to go to Moe Dee's shows and stand in the front row. Heard that out of Moe Dee's mouth myself.