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achewon87;4783564 said:Never tried that, used Youtube search and came up empty numerous times.
It is very relevant to the discussion, even though it seems OT. Image is very important to the mainstream, reason why artist like Joel Ortiz never blew up.
Just read the full article.
LOL @ Beyonce publicist talking about charities, that is part of the problem too, folks give money to charities and that is it, it ends there. I will not go in on the veracity of charities as I think they are a bit of a scam as only some of the proceeds actually go to the cause. Again they make it about money and nothing else, and I think that is what Belafonte was sort of saying, this guy marched with activist putting himself out there. Would it have killed Jay & Beyonce to show up with the rest of the folks at the Martin protest, it would have been nothing but time, no check needed to be cut for that.
And Jay should be ashamed of himself claiming to be some sort of owner of the Nets and having folks evicted out of Brooklyn for the Nets arena, shameful. Dude is like an old jazz club owner, just the black front to white money who have no concern for Brooklyn or the people and dude straight pied pipered them. He owns one-fifteenth of one percent of the team for $1 mil.He should have been on the other side of this debate but he chased the money and screwed the people.
Glad you said that, really overlooked! And yea you're right, he owns that small of an amount to be doing anything but decorations.
Okay well first thing first, there is no government takeover of the radio. Bill Clinton signed the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which is: "The goal of this new law is to let anyone enter any communications business -- to let any communications business compete in any market against any other."http://transition.fcc.gov/telecom.html
If you are going to make an argument it should be a true one.
Now with that said the deregulation of communications that began under Clinton (in TCA of 96) radio stations have more power than ever. Now companies no long must have competition and a large radio network can buy up smaller ones and control more of the airwaves. The Original Author misrepresented that as a Government takeover, but in reality it is a CORPORATE takeover.
What you have now is extremely large entertainment corporations (like Warner Bros, Viacom, & Disney among others) making decisions on what's played on the radio and how often. Considering all the smaller local stations are probably owned by one of the giants (or they survive due to advertisement money that comes from one of the giants) the likelihood of independent artists breaking through is minimal (This is why we should fight like hell against any regulation of the internet). All that matters because these record labels are also in league with the entertainment giants (Warner Bros makes movies and has a music division for instance).
Now "real" hip-hop has always meant HONEST music, it was always CULTURAL, the MC/DJ represented the culture of their city/state/neighborhood. But now its all IMAGE, that's what the entertainment giants are selling. The image of a baller/dope pusher/gangster/thug/ladies man/whatever can make them some money MC. They don't care about culture or about honesty, its all about the money.
So for me I separate real from fake by the backstory of the MC. DMX was always real, he might not have been pop-locking and wearing Adidas but he represents where he's from and speaks HIS OWN voice. As opposed to guys like "Rick Ross" who are selling an image that one of the Giants thinks is marketable. There's a difference there, you don't have to be underground to be "real" you can be mainstream and "real", you can be underground and be gimmicky, its all about the artists. Sometimes we will get a Kanye West or a Drake that breaks barriers and changes the image of what a rapper should be but it shouldn't be expected from everybody because while we slowly lose control over the images of rap, we hold on to the soul of it.
If you are going to make an argument it should be a true one.
Now with that said the deregulation of communications that began under Clinton (in TCA of 96) radio stations have more power than ever. Now companies no long must have competition and a large radio network can buy up smaller ones and control more of the airwaves. The Original Author misrepresented that as a Government takeover, but in reality it is a CORPORATE takeover.
What you have now is extremely large entertainment corporations (like Warner Bros, Viacom, & Disney among others) making decisions on what's played on the radio and how often. Considering all the smaller local stations are probably owned by one of the giants (or they survive due to advertisement money that comes from one of the giants) the likelihood of independent artists breaking through is minimal (This is why we should fight like hell against any regulation of the internet). All that matters because these record labels are also in league with the entertainment giants (Warner Bros makes movies and has a music division for instance).
Now "real" hip-hop has always meant HONEST music, it was always CULTURAL, the MC/DJ represented the culture of their city/state/neighborhood. But now its all IMAGE, that's what the entertainment giants are selling. The image of a baller/dope pusher/gangster/thug/ladies man/whatever can make them some money MC. They don't care about culture or about honesty, its all about the money.
So for me I separate real from fake by the backstory of the MC. DMX was always real, he might not have been pop-locking and wearing Adidas but he represents where he's from and speaks HIS OWN voice. As opposed to guys like "Rick Ross" who are selling an image that one of the Giants thinks is marketable. There's a difference there, you don't have to be underground to be "real" you can be mainstream and "real", you can be underground and be gimmicky, its all about the artists. Sometimes we will get a Kanye West or a Drake that breaks barriers and changes the image of what a rapper should be but it shouldn't be expected from everybody because while we slowly lose control over the images of rap, we hold on to the soul of it.
jono;4832133 said:There's a difference there, you don't have to be underground to be "real" you can be mainstream and "real", you can be underground and be gimmicky, its all about the artists. Sometimes we will get a Kanye West or a Drake that breaks barriers and changes the image of what a rapper should be but it shouldn't be expected from everybody because while we slowly lose control over the images of rap, we hold on to the soul of it.
I can't argue with that because its true, but the corporations like you said are selling the image. Which in fact they will continue to ride the cash cow to infinity, caring nothing about the lives it destroys. The reason I choose underground hip hop music (I'm only speaking for myself, my experience, and why I promote it), is because even tho you do get the gimmicks in there, some of them which are my favorites, its really the unlimited variety of artists out there that bring something to the table without restrictions to the listener listening to it. You can search bandcamp, Youtube, soundcloud, whatever resource you use and find someone new. Not saying all out there are great, but when you go to a undergroundhiphop.com or sandboxautomatic.com or rappersiknow.com, those vendors go out to bring new fresh music out to the masses without someone saying "its not relevant". You choose who you want to listen to, not the radio/TV.
jono;4832133 said:So for me I separate real from fake by the backstory of the MC. DMX was always real, he might not have been pop-locking and wearing Adidas but he represents where he's from and speaks HIS OWN voice. As opposed to guys like "Rick Ross" who are selling an image that one of the Giants thinks is marketable.
I'll never forget Rick Ross debut on Trina's song wearing a tight ass Lakers jersey:
Now look at em
But onto what you said about DMX, thats true and when Irv Gotti had his Sway interview last year (we talked about it in the Essence as well), what he said was similar to what you said about DMX
http://www.hiphopstan.com/irv-gotti-rapfix-interview-jay-z-dmx-nas-ja-rule/
The first 7 mins he talks about DMX and Jay-Z beef and talks about believing in the Dog.
@Jono Great points, the corporations will continually pimp the music, but hip-hop heads hold the soul. The spirit will always go on as long as folks push the culture.
The corporations control the airwaves and the images we get and they are clearly getting the better deal. With Youtube, Twitter & Facebook they have tied in marketing campaigns, for free. We are going down a dangerous path, soon society is going to be like "The Running Man" or "The Hunger Games" we are almost there. A daily browse of the WSHH video section confirms this, and reality TV crosses the line constantly. This morning I was reading the Jojo thread, the 17 yr "rapper" who got shot up and killed. Back in my day we would have had a "Self Destruction" type song for this and other tragedies (Trayvon Martin) that have happened through the year, sure we have memorial songs and what not, but no collective of big time artist getting together to talk about a subject like this and talking out against it. What happened to hip-hop's social awareness?
DMX is possibly the realest dude to ever come out in the mainstream by a country mile. Someone like this would not survive the industry today. Which is too bad cause the mainstream seriously needs a change of climate.
The corporations control the airwaves and the images we get and they are clearly getting the better deal. With Youtube, Twitter & Facebook they have tied in marketing campaigns, for free. We are going down a dangerous path, soon society is going to be like "The Running Man" or "The Hunger Games" we are almost there. A daily browse of the WSHH video section confirms this, and reality TV crosses the line constantly. This morning I was reading the Jojo thread, the 17 yr "rapper" who got shot up and killed. Back in my day we would have had a "Self Destruction" type song for this and other tragedies (Trayvon Martin) that have happened through the year, sure we have memorial songs and what not, but no collective of big time artist getting together to talk about a subject like this and talking out against it. What happened to hip-hop's social awareness?
DMX is possibly the realest dude to ever come out in the mainstream by a country mile. Someone like this would not survive the industry today. Which is too bad cause the mainstream seriously needs a change of climate.
@achewon87 the game has changed completely...to the degree where kids today are glorifying their violent ignorant ways. That Chief Keef tweet about Lil Jo had to be up there with Soulja Boy as one of the most trifling comments/tweets/posts ever. (For those who don't remember, Soulja Boy made a comment during an interview saying "Shout out to the slave masters! Without them we'd still be in Africa. We wouldn't be here to get this ice and tattoos.")
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.8005/title.soulja-boy-shouts-out-slave-masters
I have a Ms Wanja Lange from Germany who recently responded to the Chief Keef situation..I should have that up as a thread shortly.
I gotta be honest, I do remember the Fight the Power movements, Self Destruction movement (my dad still has that record)... but they only made little to no difference to the systems oppressive structure. Even Spike Lee along time ago during one of the awards said "This movie has been out and we still have the same problems". But its even worse now, because ALOT of the stars today want to do something thats going to reward a paycheck afterwards. This killed any movements toward injustice, racism, and public school miseducation. The only ones doing it now are motivation speakers and their significance depends on the consciousness of the audience. And I'm not saying all stars, or rap stars, I'm saying as I told you before and what Harry Belafonte said, the ones who have that power to make a statement.
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.8005/title.soulja-boy-shouts-out-slave-masters
I have a Ms Wanja Lange from Germany who recently responded to the Chief Keef situation..I should have that up as a thread shortly.
I gotta be honest, I do remember the Fight the Power movements, Self Destruction movement (my dad still has that record)... but they only made little to no difference to the systems oppressive structure. Even Spike Lee along time ago during one of the awards said "This movie has been out and we still have the same problems". But its even worse now, because ALOT of the stars today want to do something thats going to reward a paycheck afterwards. This killed any movements toward injustice, racism, and public school miseducation. The only ones doing it now are motivation speakers and their significance depends on the consciousness of the audience. And I'm not saying all stars, or rap stars, I'm saying as I told you before and what Harry Belafonte said, the ones who have that power to make a statement.
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JohnnyJuice
New member
It seems to me that there is a disconnect. People seem to be mistaking "Hip-Hop" for "rap music." Rap is something you do, Hip-Hop is something you live. "Hip-Hop" in my very humble opinion is NOT "whatever you think it is." That's like saying Islam is "whatever you think it is." Of course things change and evolve but the core intent of the culture (Hip-Hop is not an art...it's a culture comprising of different art forms and the largest segment...the party people) have to remain intact. Hip-Hop was and always will be counter-culture. The culture at the time Hip-Hop was formed was Disco. Hip-Hop utilized disco breaks as a rebellion against the disco aesthetic. Now, Hip-Hop "culture" is no longer anti-anything. It's super-conformity. It wants to be exactly like everything that is cool instead of rebelling against the "cool" and becoming the anti-cool. De La Soul had it right when, after their first album became embedded into pop culture, they backlashed and went in the opposite direction for De La Soul is Dead. THIS is the exact aesthetic of the Hip-Hop mind. P.E.ace.
JohnnyJuice;4872492 said:It seems to me that there is a disconnect. People seem to be mistaking "Hip-Hop" for "rap music." Rap is something you do, Hip-Hop is something you live. "Hip-Hop" in my very humble opinion is NOT "whatever you think it is." That's like saying Islam is "whatever you think it is." Of course things change and evolve but the core intent of the culture (Hip-Hop is not an art...it's a culture comprising of different art forms and the largest segment...the party people) have to remain intact. Hip-Hop was and always will be counter-culture. The culture at the time Hip-Hop was formed was Disco. Hip-Hop utilized disco breaks as a rebellion against the disco aesthetic. Now, Hip-Hop "culture" is no longer anti-anything. It's super-conformity. It wants to be exactly like everything that is cool instead of rebelling against the "cool" and becoming the anti-cool. De La Soul had it right when, after their first album became embedded into pop culture, they backlashed and went in the opposite direction for De La Soul is Dead. THIS is the exact aesthetic of the Hip-Hop mind. P.E.ace.
Peace Johnny Juice. Well taken message! Not sure if you're responding to the blog or this thread here, but well appreciated.
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