If GOD is a violent GOD

[Disciplined InSight]

Let us turn to what the Bible says, since it answers better than i can:
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"(John 1:29)
The Lamb of God is Christ. 'The world' would include everyone^
So yea the gift is offered to everyone...the following verses make that much clear:
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Christ died for sinners (all of us).

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9).

"He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again" (II Corinthians 5:15).
But notice the implication in this verse^. "That those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who die for them and rose again". Like i pointed out, Christ bought the church, so that implies that the church (His people) belongs to Him, and not themselves. "And he is the head of the body, the church;" (Colossians 1:18) Therefore, since the church is His, He is the head of the church which is His body, and He paid the price for the church, it follows that the church has an obligation to be obedient to it's Head since they accepted the terms of the offer. The Church doesn't get salvation on their OWN terms, but on the terms of the one who paid the cost on their behalf.

So even though to gift is offered to all, that doesn't mean all we receive it. "Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:23-24).
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).

God requires faith for us to receive the gift. "without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). Christ is called the author of our faith - "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith,"(Hebrews 12:2) So faith isn't something we just come up with on our own. Since Christ is the author of our faith, we must go to His word particularly in the New Testament to find out what we need to do, by faith, to receive the gift. Because "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

True faith is demonstrated by a person willingness to obey what God tells them. True faith is what drives a person to obey the gospel message. A person might say they trust (have faith) God, but can they really mean it if they not willing to do what He says to receive the gift? "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" (James 2:14)

"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?"(Romans 6:16)

Faith saves a person at the point they do what God said to do. God said - "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

So far we learn it requires hearing, faith, and obedience. And it's at the point of baptism (obedience) when the alien sinner receives forgiveness. It is then the job of the convert to remain faithful and do what's necessary to maintain the gift (forgiveness, salvation from sins) they received.

Paul even said "But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27)

a lot of people new to the faith get hung up on that - the endurance (obedience) part. Some people come to Christianity thinking it's a religion of convenience and don't bother to grow and keep remaining faithful to death. And thus they fall from grace.

Well explained and detailed....

 

[Ioniz3dSPIRITZ]

GOD is violent. Tsunamis, earthquakes, and other natural catastrophic events are all made possible to remind us of his presence and power. It is only GOD who can see order in the midst of chaos. I liken our understanding of GOD to an ant trying to understand a 3 deminsional world from a 2 deminsional perspective. Acts of nature that we view as violent and unfair, and even the violent acts we impose on each other, are all meant to sustain a balance of chaos and order.

 

[VIBE]

Let us turn to what the Bible says, since it answers better than i can:
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"(John 1:29)
The Lamb of God is Christ. 'The world' would include everyone^
So yea the gift is offered to everyone...the following verses make that much clear:
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Christ died for sinners (all of us).

Are you positive the "world" means everyone in the world? Because Calvinists have a good argument that the world = the chosen ones or believers ONLY. They take John 3:16 to only apply to the believers of the world. This is especially true, and think about it, if you believe God is all-knowing. (also predestination you would have to believe in too). So in reality, in God's power and ruling, he is only talking to the believers. It would be an illusion if it's talking to the non-believer (who God knows will never be saved). Christ died for the ones he knows will be saved, and that is all. He didn't die for the world. (again, think about it.)

"He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again" (II Corinthians 5:15).

He died for all (all those who live/believe this) who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. He's talking again, to the believer ONLY.

Like I said, if you truly believer your God to be all-knowing then to say he's here to clean the sins of the world is false. He isn't here to save anyone BUT the believer, because he already knows the who's who of this "saving". God has ONLY died for the believer.

So, is your God all-knowing and is everything predestined?

 

[VIBE]

GOD is violent. Tsunamis, earthquakes, and other natural catastrophic events are all made possible to remind us of his presence and power. It is only GOD who can see order in the midst of chaos. I liken our understanding of GOD to an ant trying to understand a 3 deminsional world from a 2 deminsional perspective. Acts of nature that we view as violent and unfair, and even the violent acts we impose on each other, are all meant to sustain a balance of chaos and order.

So here, on earth, we are reminded to see his power by natural events? Okay, I'll take that for now. BUT what about these that take place on other planets? We don't experience them, but they are there, on lifeless planets, with no humans and no humans will ever reach those places. Why are there "natural disasters" on other planets but to an much higher velocity?

 

[Rock_Well]

Right, it says 'takes away' not 'offers' to take away.

yes, and what the verse doesn't say is when that happens.

So then yes only those who believe in him will receive forgiveness of sins?

"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (Acts 10:43)

"There is no salvation by anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved."(Acts 4:12)

Is every iota of these verses literal?

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).

The illustration is figurative....the term 'few' means 'few', not 'many'.

I don't think thats the same as hearing the word of god. I take that verse to mean literally hearing by the power of voice of god.

Did the prophets of God have audio tape recorders? So what are you talking about? lol

"faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

the verse doesn't say by what means the word of God arrived to everyone.

So then they'd actually be obeying what God wrote through His prophets?

this is the means by which God chose to reveal His message, yes.

"Therefore we regard the message of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp that is shining in a gloomy place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts."(2 Peter 1:19)

Then its not really a gift now is it. Do this this this and this and THEN I will give you a gift.

The gift is already paid for. Just because you have to do a few things to claim it doesn't mean that you paid for it and that you earned it.

Awesome, I rise in the morning, get in the shower to be baptized and say good Lord.

yea and just make sure you don't slip and fall on the wet tub while you at it!

 

[Rock_Well]

Are you positive the "world" means everyone in the world? Because Calvinists have a good argument that the world = the chosen ones or believers ONLY. They take John 3:16 to only apply to the believers of the world. This is especially true, and think about it, if you believe God is all-knowing. (also predestination you would have to believe in too). So in reality, in God's power and ruling, he is only talking to the believers. It would be an illusion if it's talking to the non-believer (who God knows will never be saved). Christ died for the ones he knows will be saved, and that is all. He didn't die for the world. (again, think about it.)

well yea, because the whole point is, a non-believer doesn't believe that, and therefore they won't do what the Book says is necessary to be done in order to receive that gift anyways. This doesn't mean the non-believer wasn't given the same opportunity as the believer. I get the point you making, but either way you wanna look at it it still doesn't change the requirements.

He died for all (all those who live/believe this) who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. He's talking again, to the believer ONLY.

Like I said, if you truly believer your God to be all-knowing then to say he's here to clean the sins of the world is false. He isn't here to save anyone BUT the believer, because he already knows the who's who of this "saving". God has ONLY died for the believer.

So, is your God all-knowing and is everything predestined?

The only things predestined are the milestones God set in place to be accomplished. Everything else man does in between isn't. And yes, only the believer in Christ receives the spiritual blessings imparted to them. Just like Christ said unless a man be born of water and spirit He cannot see the kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Rock_Well]

Well explained and detailed....

watch how many times the the verses will get twisted by others of little understanding no matter how much we explain

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

So then yes he only buys the debt of those who believe in him?

So then yes only those who believe in him will receive forgiveness of sins?

You can change up the form, but the meaning remains the same.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Lol @ others of little understanding.

Here lies the problem. Lol

You might have to make your font bigger, things from way up there appear really small.

 

[Ioniz3dSPIRITZ]

So here, on earth, we are reminded to see his power by natural events? Okay, I'll take that for now. BUT what about these that take place on other planets? We don't experience them, but they are there, on lifeless planets, with no humans and no humans will ever reach those places. Why are there "natural disasters" on other planets but to an much higher velocity?

Good Point. I think its Gods way of keeping everything in order. God didnt want life to sprout on those particular planets so he makes them inhabitable by allowing such devastating acts of nature to take place. Its Gods way of keeping life in the universe far enough from each other that contact is impossible.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Are you quoting god?

Are saying that your an angel?

Or are you saying that my font IS really small?

I may be of little understanding in r&r.

I'm saying your font appears really small to people way up high.

 

[b*braze]

Good Point. I think its Gods way of keeping everything in order. God didnt want life to sprout on those particular planets so he makes them inhabitable by allowing such devastating acts of nature to take place. Its Gods way of keeping life in the universe far enough from each other that contact is impossible.

gtfoh...

the storms, volcanic eruptions, and other natural phenomena on other planets are larger in scale because they are happening on larger planets.

you could fit 3 earths inside the diameter of the great storm on jupiter... of course its more devastating

 

[VIBE]

Are you quoting god?
Are saying that your an angel?
Or are you saying that my font IS really small?
I may be of little understanding in r&r.

When I read from my phone, your font appears the smallest out of everyone, no joke. I know that's not what she was implying but just thought I'd say that. (your font is reg. like everyone else's though when I'm on my comp)

 

[VIBE]

Good Point. I think its Gods way of keeping everything in order. God didnt want life to sprout on those particular planets so he makes them inhabitable by allowing such devastating acts of nature to take place. Its Gods way of keeping life in the universe far enough from each other that contact is impossible.

Didn't want life to "sprout"? So life wasn't placed here, it sprouted?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Are you quoting god?

Are saying that your an angel?

Or are you saying that my font IS really small?

I may be of little understanding in r&r.

@ me for just now getting the last line when I read Vibe's post