If GOD is a violent GOD

[louis the great]

.......................................

 

[Chef_Taylor]

No it doesnt

 

[Chike]

Doesnt that give us permission to be violent. God loves blood being shed on his behalf.

The lack of sense in this post made me...

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

If you were to teach someone not to kill, would it better to only kill righteously or to have never killed at all?

 

[toktaylor]

Doesnt that give us permission to be violent. God loves blood being shed on his behalf.

The greatest atrocities that man has had to endure at the hand of his fellow man have been in the name of GOD.

The Bible reveals an important, yet often overlooked trait of God's nature and that is his thirst for blood. From the beginning of his dealings with man he has shown his preference for spilled blood; he accepted Able's offering of sheep's blood and rejected Cain's offering of grains and plants (Genesis 4:3-5). God has told man that the shedding of blood is required to be forgiven of sins (Leviticus 17:11, Hebrews 9:22). In the Old Testament, millions of animals were slaughtered and their blood poured onto altars and burned in a futile attempt to please God. The smoke from the burning flesh and blood was such a sweet scent to God (Exodus 29:18, Leviticus 1:9), that his anger was appeased when he smelled the sweet, burning blood (Genesis 8:21) Even the human/god sacrifice of Jesus is compared to the sweet smelling barbecue of an animal (Epehsians 5:2). Why is the authors of the bible alluding that blood so sweet to God? Why is blood required to be spilled in order to receive forgiveness from this "merciful" God? Don't ask these questions, "just believe," you will be told. Besides why risk ending up in an eternal barbecue just because things smell a little strange to you?

 

[toktaylor]

If you were to teach someone not to kill, would it better to only kill righteously or to have never killed at all?

so if a nigga kills your family and say that "GOD" told him to do it you will feel better as against a rabid postal worker...ok!

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

so if a nigga kills your family and say that "GOD" told him to do it you will feel better as against a rabid postal worker...ok!

Your inference skills need some fine tuning!

 

[toktaylor]

Your inference skills need some fine tuning!

well how do you define killing righteously?..and how do you justify any form of killing against another...murder is murder.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

how do you justify any form of killing against another...murder is murder.

well how do you define killing righteously?..

I agree.

Because if the murdering god does isn't murder but is "righteous" killing, if you were to teach someone not to kill, would it better to only kill righteously or to have never killed at all?

If a god is any kind of god you'd think it would practice what it preaches.

 

[VIBE]

I agree.

Because if the murdering god does isn't murder but is "righteous" killing, if you were to teach someone not to kill, would it better to only kill righteously or to have never killed at all?

If a god is any kind of god you'd think it would practice what it preaches.

What God says in the bible is "righteous" so to him it is a "righteous" killing. Someone posted and explained that verse about the stoning of the non-believers, then right after said, "do not murder". Ether posted that but it was explained, and that's how it works. (because it does make sense)

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

What God says in the bible is "righteous" so to him it is a "righteous" killing. Someone posted and explained that verse about the stoning of the non-believers, then right after said, "do not murder". Ether posted that but it was explained, and that's how it works. (because it does make sense)

Nah nah nah nah.... if someone/god is going to make a rule, they should abide by it, don't really care what justification or reasoning someone colors it with to make it sound okay to not follow it. Can't be no do as I say not as I do type bs.

 

[VIBE]

Nah nah nah nah.... if someone/god is going to make a rule, they should abide by it, don't really care what justification or reasoning someone colors it with to make it sound okay to not follow it. Can't be no do as I say not as I do type bs.

Practice what you preach, I know. God doesn't apply to our logic, rules, lives or anything. Remember, he lives outside time and all that wonderful fairy pixie dust shit. I don't agree with it either but it is what it is in the bible...

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

That's why the TS put what he did, if it's okay for god, it must be okay for man. Bcuz why are we suppose to follow god in all OUR ways, but not follow him in all HIS ways.

 

[alissowack]

Maybe if there was reason to think that we are equal God we could do so. Other than that, no we shouldn't. I think Ether posted something similar to this.

 

[Rock_Well]

well how do you define killing righteously?..and how do you justify any form of killing against another...murder is murder.

"For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23)

Some people just had it coming to them, and it don't matter that God used other people to do it.

"Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:22)

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

"For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23)

So basically everyone is still going to have to pay for their sins with death? Oh wait, maybe jesus saves some from the second death? But that can't be right, because the wages for sin is death. Help me to understand this confusion.

 

[Rock_Well]

So basically everyone is still going to have to pay for their sins with death? Oh wait, maybe jesus saves some from the second death? But that can't be right, because the wages for sin is death. Help me to understand this confusion.

In the Bible there's two types of death which is the physical death and the spiritual death. Paul in Romans 6:23 is talking about the spiritual death since in the same verse he made a contrast with eternal life, the gift given through Christ. Spiritual death is the consequence for all sins. Physical death entered the world through Adam's sin as consequence and cannot be undone - "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--"(Romans 5:12)

And sin incurs a debt that the sinner can't pay. The Bible notes that Christ purchased the church (His people) with His own blood "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." (Acts 20:28) Since Christ made the purchase, that allows the sinner to escape the debt, granted that He does what God asks to receive the gift.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

So spiritual death is the consequence of sins, and physical death is the consequence of sins, and the only way christ will take on the debt is if people believe in him? So he didn't really take on the sins of the world, just the sins of the believers?

 

[Rock_Well]

So spiritual death is the consequence of sins, and physical death is the consequence of sins, and the only way christ will take on the debt is if people believe in him? So he didn't really take on the sins of the world, just the sins of the believers?

Let us turn to what the Bible says, since it answers better than i can:
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"(John 1:29)
The Lamb of God is Christ. 'The world' would include everyone^
So yea the gift is offered to everyone...the following verses make that much clear:
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Christ died for sinners (all of us).

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9).

"He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again" (II Corinthians 5:15).
But notice the implication in this verse^. "That those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who die for them and rose again". Like i pointed out, Christ bought the church, so that implies that the church (His people) belongs to Him, and not themselves. "And he is the head of the body, the church;" (Colossians 1:18) Therefore, since the church is His, He is the head of the church which is His body, and He paid the price for the church, it follows that the church has an obligation to be obedient to it's Head since they accepted the terms of the offer. The Church doesn't get salvation on their OWN terms, but on the terms of the one who paid the cost on their behalf.

So even though to gift is offered to all, that doesn't mean all we receive it. "Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:23-24).
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).

God requires faith for us to receive the gift. "without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). Christ is called the author of our faith - "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith,"(Hebrews 12:2) So faith isn't something we just come up with on our own. Since Christ is the author of our faith, we must go to His word particularly in the New Testament to find out what we need to do, by faith, to receive the gift. Because "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

True faith is demonstrated by a person willingness to obey what God tells them. True faith is what drives a person to obey the gospel message. A person might say they trust (have faith) God, but can they really mean it if they not willing to do what He says to receive the gift? "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" (James 2:14)

"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?"(Romans 6:16)

Faith saves a person at the point they do what God said to do. God said - "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

So far we learn it requires hearing, faith, and obedience. And it's at the point of baptism (obedience) when the alien sinner receives forgiveness. It is then the job of the convert to remain faithful and do what's necessary to maintain the gift (forgiveness, salvation from sins) they received.

Paul even said "But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27)

a lot of people new to the faith get hung up on that - the endurance (obedience) part. Some people come to Christianity thinking it's a religion of convenience and don't bother to grow and keep remaining faithful to death. And thus they fall from grace.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Let us turn to what the Bible says, since it answers better than i can:

"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"(John 1:29)

The Lamb of God is Christ. 'The world' would include everyone^

Right, it says 'takes away' not 'offers' to take away.

So yea the gift is offered to everyone...the following verses make that much clear:

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

Christ died for sinners (all of us).

And if by dying on the cross takes away the sins of the world, everyone's debt is paid for.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9).

"He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again" (II Corinthians 5:15).

I think the confusion here is that I read the two verses with the same meaning to the word "should". I see both 'shoulds' in each verse the same way. Verse two is using 'should' in the sense that they 'will' no longer live as themselves but for him. That is imo how the word 'should' should be understood in the first verse also.

Therefore, since the church is His, He is the head of the church which is His body, and He paid the price for the church, it follows that the church has an obligation to be obedient to it's Head since they accepted the terms of the offer. The Church doesn't get salvation on their OWN terms, but on the terms of the one who paid the cost on their behalf.

So then yes he only buys the debt of those who believe in him?

"Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:23-24).

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).

Is every iota of these verses literal?

Because "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

I don't think thats the same as hearing the word of god. I take that verse to mean hearing by the power of voice of god.

True faith is demonstrated by a person willingness to obey what God tells them. True faith is what drives a person to obey the gospel message.

So then they'd actually be obeying what they read about god telling other people?

A person might say they trust (have faith) God, but can they really mean it if they not willing to do what He says to receive the gift? It is then the job of the convert to remain faithful and do what's necessary to maintain the gift (forgiveness, salvation from sins) they received.

Then its not really a gift now is it. Do this this this and this and THEN I will give you a gift. So then jesus didn't actually pay off our debt cuz we're the ones actually doing all the work and he's just taking the credit.

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

Awesome, I rise in the morning, get in the shower to be baptized and say good Lord.