If God exists we really dont have free will.

[sounds of jacob]

[B]No. free will does exist[/B]s. You have the choice of either accepting Jesus Christ or rejecting Him. What will you choose today? Life or death?

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them." Deuteronomy 30:19-20

BLASPHEMY !!!!! FREE WILL IS A CHRISTIAN LIE!!!!!

JEREMIAH 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

JOHN 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

ROMANS 9: 11, 16For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

JOHN 17:9 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

CHRISTIANITY IS A FALSE DOCTRINE!!! GET OUT OF THESE CHURCHES BEFORE ITS TO LATE god does not love every body !!!

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

1. I understand what happened and that he can take any life he chooses but why innocent children it was not their fault and had nothing to do with them.

2. That doesnt answer the question the question I asked, why did he need blood smeared so he could differenciate which house he would target. He should have known which houses. They didnt kill the animal and smear the blood for atonement during that conflict they did it so he knew who to kill and who not to he should have known the difference no matter what.

3. This was the romans who wrote this the same people who killed Gods son I cant take what they say about God serious as they are the ones who commited the ultimate sin in my book.

4. We are all gods son why would he create a whole new person and go through all that time wasted when he could of chose one of his true sons already on earth to use a his pawn. Jesus was a buddhist his teenage years why so? They do not believe in a god, if he knew god was his father why would he study something that believes in no great creater?

5. He would be the universal god, which means they would still be praying and believing in him, they just recieved the wrong pamphlet, god should have directed these men into the right areas to recieve their information.

6. Im healthy, finacially stable, have a great wife, a great career. I get satisfaction out of donating a good majority of my earnings. What is more fullfilling than that. The only problems I honestly have are issues that dont pertain to me exculisvely. Global Warming, Natural Disasters, this isnt aimed at me but to everyone, if god was angry at me for searching outside of religion for truth then he should have done something to make life painful which he has not.

7. If there was a heaven and I would have to answer to GOD I believe I would get in even without being a believer, for someone who doesnt believe yet commits no real sin and helps out his fellow brothers should recieve forgivness for his curiousity where as a man who murders repeatedly but is forgiven because he has found god is nonsense. Why should a good human be rejected over a man who has done nothing but hurt his fellow people that makes no sense to me.

1. "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?" (Proverbs 20:9) Just because a child may be innocent in the fact that they have never willfully disobeyed God, doesn't mean that they still aren't without a sin nature. God says that all mankind dies, because all mankind are born sinners. The baby, the child, the youth, the adult, and the elderly must all die because all are born with a sin nature. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

2. The blood is what makes the atonement for the soul, thus the blood is what protected the Hebrews from the death angel. The death angel passed over the houses with the blood because the blood covered the sins of those people. "in fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Hebrews 9:22

3. Romans was written by the Apostle Paul.

4. Jesus was a Buddhist? Show me this in the Bible.

5. God can easily be found by anybody who wants to know Him. God isn't playing hide and go seek my friend. The problem is with mankind my friend. Mankind doesn't want God, nor do they want to seek after God. Mankind thus goes and makes up their own god which pleases them according to their own desires.

6. Health, finances, stability, wife, and career can be all gone tomorrow. And then what? Have you ever read the book of Job?

7. You see, thats the problem mankind thinks that he has something to offer God. We have nothing to offer God. We are sinners my friend. If you are not perfect, you are a sinner. You have missed the mark of total perfection. There is no way for you to get into heaven without being declared righteous by Jesus Christ. God will not allow imperfection into His kingdom. You are terribly mistaken my friend.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people. - Hugh Laurie, House.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

1. "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?" (Proverbs 20:9) Just because a child may be innocent in the fact that they have never willfully disobeyed God, doesn't mean that they still aren't without a sin nature. God says that all mankind dies, because all mankind are born sinners. The baby, the child, the youth, the adult, and the elderly must all die because all are born with a sin nature. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

2. The blood is what makes the atonement for the soul, thus the blood is what protected the Hebrews from the death angel. The death angel passed over the houses with the blood because the blood covered the sins of those people. "in fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Hebrews 9:22

3. Romans was written by the Apostle Paul.

4. Jesus was a Buddhist? Show me this in the Bible.

5. God can easily be found by anybody who wants to know Him. God isn't playing hide and go seek my friend. The problem is with mankind my friend. Mankind doesn't want God, nor do they want to seek after God. Mankind thus goes and makes up their own god which pleases them according to their own desires.

6. Health, finances, stability, wife, and career can be all gone tomorrow. And then what? Have you ever read the book of Job?

7. You see, thats the problem mankind thinks that he has something to offer God. We have nothing to offer God. We are sinners my friend. If you are not perfect, you are a sinner. You have missed the mark of total perfection. There is no way for you to get into heaven without being declared righteous by Jesus Christ. God will not allow imperfection into His kingdom. You are terribly mistaken my friend.

Lol I aint even goin to say nothin else you have your opinions i have mine, Im glad that you believe someone who does right for humanity is worst than somebody that runs around killing innocent people. And Jesus being a buddhist isnt in the bible, he practiced it between ages 14-29 coincidently the same ages that are missing in describing his life in the bible,

 

[sounds of jacob]

ANSWER MY POST " DoUwant2go2Heaven?' 1 Thessalonians 5:21 PROVE ALL THINGS!!

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

ANSWER MY POST " DoUwant2go2Heaven?'

Why? Your a heretic my friend. I don't take black hebrew Israelite serious. They're a ridiculous cult.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Lol I aint even goin to say nothin else you have your opinions i have mine, Im glad that you believe someone who does right for humanity is worst than somebody that runs around killing innocent people. And Jesus being a buddhist isnt in the bible, he practiced it between ages 14-29 coincidently the same ages that are missing in describing his life in the bible,

It doesn't matter what I think about you my brother. What matters is what God thinks about you. In this life you are either going to do what pleases God or what pleases man. You can't have it both ways.

And the Bible does tell us what Jesus was doing before His ministry began. "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52) There is nothing about being a Buddhist in this passage of scripture. Sorry.

 

[juelz9716]

I think our free will is major proof that God exist. The greatest gift we as humans ESPECIALLY AMERICANS have is free will. People flock from nations far and wide to a place where you can be what you want to be. Live where you want to live and for the most part do what you want to do. Free will is one of God's greatest gift. How mundane would life be if everyone was born with an itinerary. One of life's greatest is the belief that the only thing seperating us from our dreams are the limits we place on them when we wake.

 

[whar67]

The arguement against free will by an all-knowing God precedes as this....

Free will exists when I have a decision that is under my power to make and all options are available to me. For example I come to a fork in the road and can freely choose to go right or left. The problem an all-knowing God presents is if he knows I will choose to turn right then left was never really an option for me to choose. God can not be wrong therefore left was an illusion of a choice that was never mine to make.

An arguement that retain at least a version of an All-Knowing God and free will goes like this.

1. God knows all that is and all that every was

2. God knows all possible future outcomes.

This still is an all-knowing being but with one difference. God does not know which future events will become past events. That is he does now know which decision I will make at thte crossroads but knows everything I have been through, everything going on with me at the moment I decide, and everything that possibly occur to me if I go right or if I go left.

I am not a fan of the arguement nor I am doing it justice but several theologians have wrestled with this concept over and over again.

 

[sounds of jacob]

why? Your a heretic my friend. I don't take black hebrew israelite serious. They're a ridiculous cult.

lmaoo!!! Your a christian my man chrisitianity was spread by the sword thats a slave religion i posted scripture not rhetoric answer with scripture !! free will is not biblical and i proved it read my post !!!

 

[ThaChozenWun]

I think our free will is major proof that God exist. The greatest gift we as humans ESPECIALLY AMERICANS have is free will. People flock from nations far and wide to a place where you can be what you want to be. Live where you want to live and for the most part do what you want to do. Free will is one of God's greatest gift. How mundane would life be if everyone was born with an itinerary. One of life's greatest is the belief that the only thing seperating us from our dreams are the limits we place on them when we wake.

Ok so basically free will is the reason god exists? That makes no sense your basically saying without a god we would be incapable of thought and action. If god didnt exist your saying somebody couldnt choose between somethin so small as wether to eat with a fork or spoon?

 

[sodredge]

So if you go and run into the middle of rush hour traffic at 5 pm today, will you stand before God and tell Him that "I got killed because you forced me to run into traffic"? Com on man. Get real bro. If we didn't have free will we would be robots. If you decide to respond to this message your exersizing your will and if you decide not to respond your exersizing your will.

You know you can make a valid argument on both sides of this. So you would stand there looking at God and telling him that he had no way to see that you would run into traffic ? That somehow you were more powerful then him and of your own "free will" you went beyond the scale of him and took your life without him knowing. How did you put that "come on bro". This argument is the same argument that falls into "election", is it choice or is it God's soverign plan than things go one way or another.

 

[goldenja]

play some sims 3 and shut the fuck up

im just playin

 

[2stepz_ahead]

Being omnipotent has it's limitations. God, for example, can't do anything wrong. "But", you would say, "God wouldn't want to do anything wrong." Yep - another limitation. I can want to do something wrong - God can't. God will never know what it truly feels like to personally commit a sin. I remember watching George Carlin with his trick questions for Catholic priests like, "Can God create a rock so big that he himself can't lift it?" Yes - this is all funny - but there really are some serious limitations to being omnipotent.

The Bible says God knows the future.So - if God knows the future, do we have free will? I mean - since God already knows what we are going to do - then we really don't have any choice. We seem to have a choice because we don't know what we are going to do. But - if God knows the future then reality is like a movie that's already been written and it's like we are watching the movie for the first time - so we don't know what's going to happen - but God has already seen the movie and he knows what's going to happen - and that's it. The movie can't change.

What this means is - there really is no such thing as "free will". Free Will implies that we have a choice and that we can do A or we can do B but if God already knows we are going to do A then we are going to do A. We can't chose to do B because if we chose B then God would have been wrong about knowing we were going to chose A, and God can't be wrong. Thus there really is no real choice.

i see we think along the same lines....most people cant answer these questions without insults or think we are trying to make fun

 

[Go figure...]

If I ran into traffic and got killed god would have known I was going to do that already, therefore no its not really free will.

@ The bolded I thought it was the devil and his evil instilled in us that made us do wrong at times, thats not free will either then because we arent willingly doing wrong we are being forced by evil to do wrong.

Not saying that your wrong just stating you havent really answered my question, if we have free will god shouldnt know the future because we would have the ability to control it, if he knows the future we really dont have that ability

just because God knows what we are going to do in the future how does that mean we dont have control over what we do???

he just KNOWS already, hes not controlling it to make it happen.

u ever assume somethin that end up happenin?? okay, does it mean u controlled those events?? no.....

only difference is he doesnt have to assume, he already knows

God exists outside of time which is what makes Him infinite so he knows past present and future.

 

[supaman4321]

threadstarter seems to be confusing God's knowledge with his Mercy

Because of God's knowledge yes he was completely aware of everything that would ever happen, how, when, to whom, etc....

Because of his Mercy he gives us the ability to CHOOSE (action) what it is that we do, so while the circumstances we may find ourselves in may not always be in our control, how we react to those circumstances are

What sense would it make for God to judge us if all we had to say to get out of it was "well you're all powerful you should've stopped me!"

C'mon....really?

 

[Rock_Well]

Of course. God is soveriegn and whatever He has purposed that will stand. Nothing that mankind does can alter the plans of God for His creation. Do you think God gets surprised at anything mankind does?

forgive me, but Jesus did marvel at the centurions faith in Luke.

 

[melanated khemist]

within 2 to 3 days after the hueman neonate is born they have free will.. thats about how long it takes for the liver and spleen to destroy the nucleated blood cells... the nucleated blood cells contain our parents database, mainly our mother's dna.

 

[fiat_money]

With a supposedly omniscient and omnipotent "God", not only organisms, but "God" loses "free will" as well:

Not only that, even "God" can't have "free will", if "God" is omniscient and omnipotent. For if "God" knows everything, it knows its own future, and if "God" can do anything, it can deviate from its own future. However, if "God" really knew its own future, any deviating actions that it would make would also be known; meaning "God" would not actually be deviating from its future. Therefore, if "God" knows its own future and can't deviate from it, this means, despite being able to do anything, "God" doesn't necessarily "choose" to do anything, as "God's" future actions have already been defined by "God's" absolute knowledge of the future.

Thus, if "God" knows its own future, yet can't choose to deviate from it, "God" does not have "free will".

 

[alissowack]

With a supposedly omniscient and omnipotent "God", not only organisms, but "God" loses "free will" as well:

Maybe this could be true if God's Omniscience and Omnipotence is governed by the terms themselves; that God has an obligation to "live up" to the definitions.