Human wisdom doesn't save

[Chike]

interesting. So you believe God mainly is only concerned with our intent?

Being saved is not about some god in a court room saving you from a life sentence in hell... Intent has a result on people's choices and decision making. Those choices and decisions effect the world, because everyone is making them. If someone decides to be a scientist because they want to find a cure for sickness because they love helping people.... that's different than someone becoming a scientist because they just want to make alot of money.

Let's say some corporation comes along and offers that scientist a shit load of money to buy their discovery so that they can keep it a secret and make money off the medicine rather the cure; The scientist who intended on making money, will take the bribe and the world will be effected because there will be no cure and everyone will continue to die from that sickness. But if it was the scientist who loved to help people, they wouldn't take the money, they would release the cure, and the world would also be effected by that decision. Intent is more important than the act.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

oh and among the list of things that consist of human wisdom, add religious writings of men.

another example would be like when a person 'looks inside' himself to 'find answers' about life issues. Picture a buddhist monk meditating. Or picture a person that is supposedly 'intuned' with unseen spiritual forces of the world and uses their 'senses' in the practice of divination, getting knowledge about things that otherwise humans wouldn't or shouldn't know.

You are either a fool or believe I am fool if you expect me to believe you don't look within.

 

[b*braze]

You sayin all my fancy book learnings won't save me from H-E-double hockey sticks?

 

[Rock_Well]

Being saved is not about some god in a court room saving you from a life sentence in hell... Intent has a result on people's choices and decision making. Those choices and decisions effect the world, because everyone is making them. If someone decides to be a scientist because they want to find a cure for sickness because they love helping people.... that's different than someone becoming a scientist because they just want to make alot of money.

Let's say some corporation comes along and offers that scientist a shit load of money to buy their discovery so that they can keep it a secret and make money off the medicine rather the cure; The scientist who intended on making money, will take the bribe and the world will be effected because there will be no cure and everyone will continue to die from that sickness. But if it was the scientist who loved to help people, they wouldn't take the money, they would release the cure, and the world would also be effected by that decision. Intent is more important than the act.

you make a good point about intentions however i noticed you didn't use the example where someone has good intentions but yet does an act that actually makes things turn out for the worse....which is why i don't really try to pinpoint a person intentions, i just stick to observing what they do...unless they expose themselves (what they intend).

 

[Rock_Well]

You are either a fool or believe I am fool if you expect me to believe you don't look within.

I'm not telling you not to do that, and i'm not saying that i don't sometimes do that. The point is, that doing so might lead a person to a better understanding of themselves and/or to observations they wouldn't normally make but very rarely does it lead to a Truth. only a truth in regards to what they feel or think.

This is a brainwashing verse. Who gave man the mind to figure out things? If all of man had listen to and believed the bible chicken pox would have wiped humanity out. Someone had to stop praying and actually look for answers.

lol so because the verse doesn't automatically fit your preconceived ideas, you automatically dismiss it? Gotta love how people can do that

it still doesn't make sense that God would perform miracles, defying the laws of physical science, and then later grant some random man the ability to explain away the very miracles that were performed, refuting the idea that it was a miracle in the first place.

You sayin all my fancy book learnings won't save me from H-E-double hockey sticks?

unfortunately not.

But if you contribute some of your brightness and learning abilities to studying and living by the standard taught in the Bible, which tells men what to do to be saved, then you won't have to worry about H-E-double hockey sticks.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

The point is, that doing so might lead a person to a better understanding of themselves and/or to observations they wouldn't normally make but very rarely does it lead to a Truth. only a truth in regards to what they feel or think.

So where does truth come from? The truth is only to be found outwardly?

 

[oliverlang]

what are the chances human wisdom can lead a person down the path of salvation?

sadly, it's about 0 to like an infinity

They have a better chance looking within (as a buddhist does) than waiting on a sign from an imaginary god. there is no god to help you, you can only help yourself so the best place to look IS within.

without God's word,

has anyone ever heard god's word? Or, are they READING man's word?

 

[Chike]

you make a good point about intentions however i noticed you didn't use the example where someone has good intentions but yet does an act that actually makes things turn out for the worse....which is why i don't really try to pinpoint a person intentions, i just stick to observing what they do...unless they expose themselves (what they intend).

Mistakes happen, that's life. If they don't learn from those mistakes, then they got a problem.

 

[Rock_Well]

So where does truth come from? The truth is only to be found outwardly?

When it comes to what we need to do to get to heaven? Then yes, that's exactly right. It's found outside of ourselves.

 

[Rock_Well]

They have a better chance looking within (as a buddhist does) than waiting on a sign from an imaginary god. there is no god to help you, you can only help yourself so the best place to look IS within.

Sorry i just don't hold to that....the only way I personally am able to help myself is even because of God. And neither am i the judge of myself or others. To me, that's a more positive and more accurate view.

The people that are able to trust and lean on God where they are weak show way greater strength of character than those that just solely rely on themselves and what they have.

has anyone ever heard god's word? Or, are they READING man's word?

Men can both hear and read God's word. They can also both hear and read man's word. They can also choose who's voice they will listen to.

 

[Rock_Well]

Mistakes happen, that's life. If they don't learn from those mistakes, then they got a problem.

yea, however each of us also bears the responsibility of knowing what's right and what's wrong before we take action too. Therefore, we shouldn't always so easily be let off the hook when we make mistakes. But God is the one that judges that part. And from what i've seen God can be pretty lienient, but he makes the call in that situation.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

When it comes to what we need to do to get to heaven? Then yes, that's exactly right. It's found outside of ourselves.

god help your soul

 

[oliverlang]

The people that are able to trust and lean on God where they are weak show way greater strength of character than those that just solely rely on themselves and what they have.

That's your opinion and you have no way of proving this because as far as I'm concerned people that have faith that a mysterious god is going to help them are weak and use that as a crutch. Those that take responsibility for their own actions and can look within to correct what needs to be corrected, in my opinion have a stronger character.

Men can both hear and read God's word. They can also both hear and read man's word. They can also choose who's voice they will listen to.

Men that hear god's word are either crazy or hearing their "conscious"...please tell where god has written anything down?

 

[alissowack]

That's your opinion and you have no way of proving this because as far as I'm concerned people that have faith that a mysterious god is going to help them are weak and use that as a crutch. Those that take responsibility for their own actions and can look within to correct what needs to be corrected, in my opinion have a stronger character.

But it is not to say that looking within don't have negatives. Some people who try to be self-reliant can find themselves denying they need "outside" help or an understanding. What is beneficial to me sometimes may be destructive as a whole and if I'm not going to seek approval from others could end up disasterous. If anything, there ought to a balance between the two.

 

[oliverlang]

But it is not to say that looking within don't have negatives. Some people who try to be self-reliant can find themselves denying they need "outside" help or an understanding. What is beneficial to me sometimes may be destructive as a whole and if I'm not going to seek approval from others could end up disasterous. If anything, there ought to a balance between the two.

i agree with this.....

 

[Rock_Well]

god help your soul

Just because there are some things that directly pertain to the person that only they can know the answers to doesn't mean you go and make a whole religion out of it, ignoring all other outside facts.

 

[Rock_Well]

That's your opinion and you have no way of proving this because as far as I'm concerned people that have faith that a mysterious god is going to help them are weak and use that as a crutch. Those that take responsibility for their own actions and can look within to correct what needs to be corrected, in my opinion have a stronger character.

Not really my opinion, it's a simple life observation. God designed the world like that.

The point is those that like to just trust themselves and what they have tend to not be able to humble themselves enough even to enter Heaven. Yea, such a strength in character.

Men that hear god's word are either crazy or hearing their "conscious"...please tell where god has written anything down?

The act of men being sent by God to write down the God given message He wanted them to write can be rightly counted as 'God wrote'.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Just because there are some things that directly pertain to the person that only they can know the answers to doesn't mean you go and make a whole religion out of it, ignoring all other outside facts.

Ignore what outside facts?

 

[Rock_Well]

Ignore what outside facts?

What's taught through God's word, for instance.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

What's taught through God's word, for instance.

Oh well, like I said, you're bound by your convictions, and as long as your convictions are what they are, there is no way to unbind you, until you choose to be.