Game of Thrones (Season 3) - HBO

[THIRDSUPREME]

I just finished watching all 3 seasons of this show. I was happy as fuck when the kill them niggas after the wedding. Dude lost his way. Why the fuck would you behead one one your generals for killing an enemy. And what a terrible mother. The bitch went to pass a message to her husband and never returned home to her kids. What kind of mother does that shit. The midget trill as fuck tho. And I am hoping the mother of dragons come in and fuck shit up next season..

Yeah man, The King of the North wasn't built for that position.

As a King you have to have a healthy balance of Fear and Respect and he wasn't feared at all.

From the beginning to the end The Starks did nothing but play to lose.

Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. The Lanisters are winners, the only reason Joffrey is alive is because he's their claim to the throne, otherwise Tywin would have had him killed.

Can anybody explain how lady starks son got super powers.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

All of the Lannisters' success isn't due to their good decisions. They got lucky too. The most obvious example is when Stannis killed Renly. It was heavily implied that Renly could have taken King's Landing if not for Stannis. Renly was also willing to work with Robb, so if they linked up the Lannisters would have been done. And even Tywin has acknowledged that killing Ned was a horrible decision. It's right up there with any of the bad moves the Starks made.

Also, the Starks didn't make as many bad decisions as people think. In my estimation, there are 4 bad decisions that put them where they are.

Cat taking Tyrion - She herself admits it was dumb, started the war, and got Ned killed.

Ned warning Cersei that he was going to reveal the truth to Robert - That got Robert killed and was the beginning of the end for Ned.

Robb marrying his wife - He was already warned that Frey would not take kindly to that, and it cost him big in the end.

Robb killing the Karstark - He put too much into honor, and made a bad decision. It was essentially the same as what Ned did.

There are a couple of honorable mentions.

Robb sending Theon - In retrospect, that was a bad move, but to be fair, Theon really had no intentions of doing what he did initially. He didn't go that route until his father treated him like shit. At that point, he wanted to regain his familial standing. So yeah it went bad for the Starks, but it was a reasonable decision to make for Robb.

Robb and company going to the Freys for the wedding - Cat knew it was a bad move. They had been saying all along that Frey could not be trusted especially after being wronged. That said, they didn't have much choice. They were losing the war and needed a "Hail Mary."

 

[THIRDSUPREME]

Luck...well Stannis and Renly were going to go to WAR before Renly would have been able to join forces with the North (and who's to say Renly was going to win?) I see the Lanisters winning in all scenarios.

The fire water and the wedding assassinations... brilliant.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Luck...well Stannis and Renly were going to go to WAR before Renly would have been able to join forces with the North (and who's to say Renly was going to win?) I see the Lanisters winning in all scenarios.

The fire water and the wedding assassinations... brilliant.

I'm not sure what you mean by Stannis and Renly going to war before Renly joining forces with the North, but Stannis made a surprise attack when Renly was basically telling Cat that he'd be open to working with Robb. The Lannisters didn't set that up. The Lannisters didn't give Stannis magic powers that allowed him to kill Renly. It was just a lucky break for them. And common sense says that Renly would have made the winning difference. At the time, Robb was getting the better of Tywin. If you add in another force that's bigger than either of the ones already involved, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a way for the Lannisters coming out victorious.

I agree that the fire water and wedding assassinations were brilliant, but both of those victories were set up by things that were out of the Lannisters control. The dragonfire setup worked mostly because Stannis really only had superiority on the water, and that was due to that fact that Stannis was a douche and no one liked him. The wedding assassination worked because Robb had run off the Karstarks and was forced to rely on a risky alliance. Again, the Lannisters did nothing to create that situation. The Lannisters may be GOAT opportunists, but it's not like they set up these brilliant master plans. Truth be told, Robb is depicted as being far more clever when it comes to strategy than any of the Lannisters.

 

[THIRDSUPREME]

If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk. Lol. So the starks had some bad luck, you regroup, form new alliances...plan B.

Yes, the Lanisters were Great opportunists.... as well.

Rob ran off his help being an overly emotional ass bitch. Rob and his mothers decisions and inability to put the greater cause before their feelings is what lost them this war. Like Big Lanister said to his midget son, you gotta put what's best for the family first.

This dragon lady though.... its about to be some shit.

 

[thefabmd2dc]

Robb made terrible decisions the whole season but was good at winning battles that's about it for him. Winning battles won't mean shit after a while because not all of your men want to keep fighting a war.

The lannisters could have won the war of attrition if he needed too but stannis and renly going after each other is what really saved him in all this

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Ya'll are comparing the maturity of a seasoned 50 y/o vet to a 15 y/o boy that had a crown dropped in his lap. The fact that Robb was giving Tywin problems at all just goes to show you how much the brilliance of the Lannisters is being overrated here.

Don't get me wrong. Tywin and Tyrion are some clever mutha fuckers. I'll even give you an example. I see people on here talking like Cersei is some kind of genius too. She's certainly not. Yes, in the end, she won and Ned lost, but even in the show it's clear that she only won because Ned was too damn honorable and Robert was too much of an idiot. It wasn't her smarts that got the job done, it was the stupidity of the opposition. Again, that's a matter of being a good opportunist not a brilliant strategist. And it's even worse in the book because the only reason Cersei managed to beat Ned at all is because Sansa snitched on him. She said as much herself. She flat out admitted that if Sansa hadn't come and told her about Ned's plans to send her and Arya back to Winterfell, she may not have been able to organize shit over to her side. Cersei didn't do anything to make Sansa a dumb bitch, she was that all by herself.

And again, Tywin was only able to do the things that he did because his enemies screwed shit up all on their own. If Robb hadn't married that chick or if Renly and Stannis put aside their differences until after the Lannisters were finished, the Lannisters would have been done for.

 

[Swiffness!]

Ya'll are comparing the maturity of a seasoned 50 y/o vet to a 15 y/o boy that had a crown dropped in his lap. The fact that Robb was giving Tywin problems at all just goes to show you how much the brilliance of the Lannisters is being overrated here.

Don't get me wrong. Tywin and Tyrion are some clever mutha fuckers. I'll even give you an example. I see people on here talking like Cersei is some kind of genius too. She's certainly not. Yes, in the end, she won and Ned lost, but even in the show it's clear that she only won because Ned was too damn honorable and Robert was too much of an idiot. It wasn't her smarts that got the job done, it was the stupidity of the opposition. Again, that's a matter of being a good opportunist not a brilliant strategist. And it's even worse in the book because the only reason Cersei managed to beat Ned at all is because Sansa snitched on him. She said as much herself. She flat out admitted that if Sansa hadn't come and told her about Ned's plans to send her and Arya back to Winterfell, she may not have been able to organize shit over to her side. Cersei didn't do anything to make Sansa a dumb bitch, she was that all by herself.

And again, Tywin was only able to do the things that he did because his enemies screwed shit up all on their own. If Robb hadn't married that chick or if Renly and Stannis put aside their differences until after the Lannisters were finished, the Lannisters would have been done for.

Tywin obviously been a G long before War of the 5 Kings tho. His management of the family finances alone - going from near bankruptcy to Carlos Slim status - should be enough proof of his genius. Granted, he got lucky w/ his opponents making poor-to-borderline-retarded decisions...but that's true of ANY really successful "great" person:

- If Steve Jobs is less arrogant and wildly overprotective of his Operating System in the 80s, we're all using Macintosh Computers and Bill Gates would prolly be fuckin broke.

- If Robert E. Lee doesn't make a truckload of fuckups at Gettysberg, Abraham Lincoln would go down in history as The Worst President and your black ass would prolly be picking cotton...

- Barack Hussein Obama, b. If his U.S Senate opponent doesn't self-destruct with a nasty sex scandal, he's not President. If the Republicans convince Mike Ditka to run for Senate at the last minute, he's not President. If Hillary doesn't walk around like she's already POTUS and idiotically refuse to renounce her Iraq War vote, he's not President. McCain & Romney both ran hilariously incompetent, shitty campaigns.

IMHO the tragedy of Tywin is that he coulda been GOAT if he had simply been willing to look past his son's disability, forgive him for his mother's death, and see that he had one of the shrewdest minds in Westeros next to his own. Working together, they'd effectively be unstoppable imho. It'd be like Marlo & Avon teaming up.

and on that note, i wanna post this for posterity i don't care if its old:

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Ya'll are comparing the maturity of a seasoned 50 y/o vet to a 15 y/o boy that had a crown dropped in his lap. The fact that Robb was giving Tywin problems at all just goes to show you how much the brilliance of the Lannisters is being overrated here.

Don't get me wrong. Tywin and Tyrion are some clever mutha fuckers. I'll even give you an example. I see people on here talking like Cersei is some kind of genius too. She's certainly not. Yes, in the end, she won and Ned lost, but even in the show it's clear that she only won because Ned was too damn honorable and Robert was too much of an idiot. It wasn't her smarts that got the job done, it was the stupidity of the opposition. Again, that's a matter of being a good opportunist not a brilliant strategist. And it's even worse in the book because the only reason Cersei managed to beat Ned at all is because Sansa snitched on him. She said as much herself. She flat out admitted that if Sansa hadn't come and told her about Ned's plans to send her and Arya back to Winterfell, she may not have been able to organize shit over to her side. Cersei didn't do anything to make Sansa a dumb bitch, she was that all by herself.

And again, Tywin was only able to do the things that he did because his enemies screwed shit up all on their own. If Robb hadn't married that chick or if Renly and Stannis put aside their differences until after the Lannisters were finished, the Lannisters would have been done for.

Tywin obviously been a G long before War of the 5 Kings tho. His management of the family finances alone - going from near bankruptcy to Carlos Slim status - should be enough proof of his genius. Granted, he got lucky w/ his opponents making poor-to-borderline-retarded decisions...but that's true of ANY really successful "great" person:

- If Steve Jobs is less arrogant and wildly overprotective of his Operating System in the 80s, we're all using Macintosh Computers and Bill Gates would prolly be fuckin broke.

- If Robert E. Lee doesn't make a truckload of fuckups at Gettysberg, Abraham Lincoln would go down in history as The Worst President and your black ass would prolly be picking cotton...

- Barack Hussein Obama, b. If his U.S Senate opponent doesn't self-destruct with a nasty sex scandal, he's not President. If the Republicans convince Mike Ditka to run for Senate at the last minute, he's not President. If Hillary doesn't walk around like she's already POTUS and idiotically refuse to renounce her Iraq War vote, he's not President. McCain & Romney both ran hilariously incompetent, shitty campaigns.

IMHO the tragedy of Tywin is that he coulda been GOAT if he had simply been willing to look past his son's disability, forgive him for his mother's death, and see that he had one of the shrewdest minds in Westeros next to his own. Working together, they'd effectively be unstoppable imho. It'd be like Marlo & Avon teaming up.

and on that note, i wanna post this for posterity i don't care if its old:

Do you realize in all those hypotheticals you listed, the outcomes depended at least someone on the actions of the person you're addressing. In this story, the Lannisters just flat out caught breaks that had nothing to do with anything they planned. They were done at least twice during the war, and got lucky. Now too be fair, Tywin and Tyrion made some good moves that also saved them, but the fact remains the Lannisters are GOAT opportunists moreso than GOAT strategists. If a boon comes their way, they know how to take it and maximize what they get out of it, but I haven't really seen anything that suggests they are just as good at creating such boons to begin with.

 

[dallas' 4 eva]

Just to clarify - no steel Valyrian or not can kill a wight or a White Walker. Wights can only be killed with fire - what Jon Snow did. And that's why the wildling tradition is to burn their dead and why they burn as many fires as they can. And no one currently knows how to kill a WW.

Actually obsidian can kill a white walker.

 

[dallas' 4 eva]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he isn't tough. I'm just saying he wasn't on the legendary status when it comes to pure combat skills that others were.

Nah nigga, you trippin. OG Ned was about to give kingslayer THAT WORK.

Nah you tripping Jaime woulda made light work of Ned.

 

[rantanamo]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he isn't tough. I'm just saying he wasn't on the legendary status when it comes to pure combat skills that others were.

Nah nigga, you trippin. OG Ned was about to give kingslayer THAT WORK.

Nah you tripping Jaime woulda made light work of Ned.

The way he did with Brienne? Kingslayer was just a reputation

 

[dallas' 4 eva]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he isn't tough. I'm just saying he wasn't on the legendary status when it comes to pure combat skills that others were.

Nah nigga, you trippin. OG Ned was about to give kingslayer THAT WORK.

Nah you tripping Jaime woulda made light work of Ned.

The way he did with Brienne? Kingslayer was just a reputation

Like I said earlier in the books Brienne even says that she knew if Jamie was serious even with the chains he could have beat her.

That's about the only thing about the show I don't like they build up certain characters to be more than they are. In the books Ned knew he wasn't even that cold with a sword. A master strategists but average at best by his own admission.

 

[PaperPlaneJane]

Deleted scene from season 3

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he isn't tough. I'm just saying he wasn't on the legendary status when it comes to pure combat skills that others were.

Nah nigga, you trippin. OG Ned was about to give kingslayer THAT WORK.

Nah you tripping Jaime woulda made light work of Ned.

The way he did with Brienne? Kingslayer was just a reputation

Like I said earlier in the books Brienne even says that she knew if Jamie was serious even with the chains he could have beat her.

That's about the only thing about the show I don't like they build up certain characters to be more than they are. In the books Ned knew he wasn't even that cold with a sword. A master strategists but average at best by his own admission.

I'm pretty sure Brienne acknowledged in the show that Jaime wasn't at his best too. It was pretty clear that she only beat him the way she did because he was in bad shape from his captivation.

In this story, there are average grunts, great warriors, and legends. Ned is a great warrior, but Jaime is a legend. The difference is that Ned is acknowledge as someone who fought in major battles and came out victorious, but no one actually fears him or holds him particularly high in that area. On the flipside, characters like Selmy, Jaime, and even King Rob are constantly put on a pedestal for their fighting abilities.

 

[THIRDSUPREME]

The Book is not the show.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

That's true. The show diverge from the show quite a bit. Not as much as something like True Blood, things are definitely different and getting more and more different as things progress.

 

[Sir White]

Fact- One handed Jaime is still alive.

Fact- Ned is not.

Fact- Lucky Tywin is still alive.

Fact- Unfortunate Robb is not.

Scoreboard is the only thing that matters. Why is the most useless term in the common tongue.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I'm not exactly sure what any of that proves, but ok, I guess.

 

[alligatorhalfman]

Time to break out those witticisms, ICers who tweet

HODOR, BITCH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QPxshJGZMso

FUCK DA KING
=player_embedded