G&S Debate challenege. Edward Snowden: Hero or traitor

[2stepz_ahead]

Wrong is fucking wrong. They use it against the people why can't we use it against them? I rob a bank to feed all the homeless in my city. I am wrong. The government does it and doesn't feed anyone and it's called taxes. It's still wrong. Even playing field is all I want. It the government can do it the people should be allowed to as well.

regardless....

perfect example

if you an your brother fight in the house cause he stole your sweater and your sister watches....its wrong because yall brothers. but yall may have each others back by not snitching to your parents because one will get in trouble. but yall hashed the shit out inhouse. outside you still look like a strong unit. and your sister is happy yall worked it out...but she knows to hide her shit so it wont happen to her.

everything is inhouse

but what if you brother beat your ass...then told your parents, told everyone outside he would help them beat you and keep the sweater. now yall look dysfunctional, weak and people might run up in your house cause yall will be too busy fighting each other...an you sister sits there confused at why some nigga walking around the house, sniffing her panties an no one is stopping him.

This only works if my brother won't kill me over the sweater. The government would have killed snowden.

who says the govt wants to kill its citizens? an i am sure if your brother let someone come into your house an rape and kill your family while he gave them the keys to the house knowing what they would do while he went to chill over his chicks house....i am almost sure you would kill him

lol bruh this makes no fucking sense

it does....re-read it

 

[LEMZIMUS_RAMSEY]

you mean to tell me white privilege is not something that's been perfected by the government?

how many blacks or mexicans are in fucking charge

Does Europe have a black arab oe mixed president?

Does Holland have a black judge?

Wasnt Holland part of slavery and colonization?

The US have slapped the world in the face by having the first black General Powell the first black president Obama just decades after the segregation era.

Give props when its due

Its too easy to criticize when we dont do better in Europe and Russia.

Truly out.

 

[a.mann]

If a company frauds the FDA into thinking their drug is safe by doctoring up results do you think the man that comes out and speaks on it is a hero or traitor?

*AFTER if he takes the information and runs to a competitor

who in returns uses the information that effects/affects the company to the point it ends up shutting down

costing thousands of workers their jobs and lively hood.

there, completed that analogy for ya.

He is a traitor.

Because he could just as well handled all that "in house". Meaning he could have offered up variable alternatives besides placing they entire company at risk. What? I don't exactly know. But you don't burn down the whole damn house.

He leaked it then left,this is the government we are talking about. He would have wound up dead if they even thought he was going to speak. And yes burn the whole house if lies down and build a new one on the backs of the people that will fight for freedom and not espionage. Because that's what it is. Spying. If you or I were to do this because we believed that we are stopping terrorism we'd never see the light of day.

this entire post is subjective

what is NOT subjective is the fact Snowden has stolen classified information on national security of the United States,

BEYOND the surveillance programs.

Again this FACT has been confirmed by the government,Greenwald , and Snowden himself.

As a citizen of the United States, who not only travels outside the country frequently

my family, friends,close associates etc are ALSO citizens of the United States.

Some are even enlisted in the United States' military,some work overseas in foreign countries (like myself have)

many travel using the airports,bus, trains, shop at malls, go to sports stadiums etc,etc.....IN THE UNITED STATES.

Surely you get my point as to WHY

I would be invested in the security of the United States,

that goes beyond my feelings of contempt toward it's government?

 

[2stepz_ahead]

If a company frauds the FDA into thinking their drug is safe by doctoring up results do you think the man that comes out and speaks on it is a hero or traitor?

*AFTER if he takes the information and runs to a competitor

who in returns uses the information that effects/affects the company to the point it ends up shutting down

costing thousands of workers their jobs and lively hood.

there, completed that analogy for ya.

He is a traitor.

Because he could just as well handled all that "in house". Meaning he could have offered up variable alternatives besides placing they entire company at risk. What? I don't exactly know. But you don't burn down the whole damn house.

He leaked it then left,this is the government we are talking about. He would have wound up dead if they even thought he was going to speak. And yes burn the whole house if lies down and build a new one on the backs of the people that will fight for freedom and not espionage. Because that's what it is. Spying. If you or I were to do this because we believed that we are stopping terrorism we'd never see the light of day.

this entire post is subjective

what is NOT subjective is the fact Snowden has stolen classified information on national security of the United States,

BEYOND the surveillance programs.

Again this FACT has been confirmed by the government,Greenwald , and Snowden himself.

As a citizen of the United States, who not only travels outside the country frequently

my family, friends,close associates etc are ALSO citizens of the United States.

Some are even enlisted in the United States' military,some work overseas in foreign countries (like myself have)

many travel using the airports,bus, trains, shop at malls, go to sports stadiums etc,etc.....IN THE UNITED STATES.

Surely you get my point as to WHY

I would be invested in the security of the United States,

that goes beyond my feelings of contempt toward it's government?

preach.....i dont think people understand how good we got it.....or why they think others have it better.

there is a term...lesser of two evils

 

[a.mann]

preach.....i dont think people understand how good we got it.....or why they think others have it better.

there is a term...lesser of two evils

the NSA programs are fucked

the government is fucked

ok,ok,ok

I get all that.

but what many people aren't getting

is the fact that the guy has admitted he also stole classified intel on national security on THE country.

Not the government, the country.

could be some are just so blinded by animosity toward the government

and that's not quite sinking in, more likely because it isn't hitting home........yet

idk

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

you mean to tell me white privilege is not something that's been perfected by the government?

how many blacks or mexicans are in fucking charge

Does Europe have a black arab oe mixed president?

Does Holland have a black judge?

Wasnt Holland part of slavery and colonization?

The US have slapped the world in the face by having the first black General Powell the first black president Obama just decades after the segregation era.

Give props when its due

Its too easy to criticize when we dont do better in Europe and Russia.

Truly out.

lol @ thinking obama actually runs shit

 

[2stepz_ahead]

If a company frauds the FDA into thinking their drug is safe by doctoring up results do you think the man that comes out and speaks on it is a hero or traitor?

*AFTER if he takes the information and runs to a competitor

who in returns uses the information that effects/affects the company to the point it ends up shutting down

costing thousands of workers their jobs and lively hood.

there, completed that analogy for ya.

He is a traitor.

Because he could just as well handled all that "in house". Meaning he could have offered up variable alternatives besides placing they entire company at risk. What? I don't exactly know. But you don't burn down the whole damn house.

He leaked it then left,this is the government we are talking about. He would have wound up dead if they even thought he was going to speak. And yes burn the whole house if lies down and build a new one on the backs of the people that will fight for freedom and not espionage. Because that's what it is. Spying. If you or I were to do this because we believed that we are stopping terrorism we'd never see the light of day.

this entire post is subjective

what is NOT subjective is the fact Snowden has stolen classified information on national security of the United States,

BEYOND the surveillance programs.

Again this FACT has been confirmed by the government,Greenwald , and Snowden himself.

As a citizen of the United States, who not only travels outside the country frequently

my family, friends,close associates etc are ALSO citizens of the United States.

Some are even enlisted in the United States' military,some work overseas in foreign countries (like myself have)

many travel using the airports,bus, trains, shop at malls, go to sports stadiums etc,etc.....IN THE UNITED STATES.

Surely you get my point as to WHY

I would be invested in the security of the United States,

that goes beyond my feelings of contempt toward it's government?

That's fine. We can agree that he stole it. But does that make the government any less wrong? Its what whistleblowers do. It's not like they are handed evidence against their companies. Like I said I'm fine with being tapped and not knowing. It just makes it look bad on the government that they are so pressed to get this man that exposed their WRONG. If I don't know it doesn't affect me.

so if a school yard bully stopped you from getting jumped everyday...even tho you didnt ask for it. he is still protecting even tho his wrong for bring a bully.

we understand the govt is wrong....but what he has can destroy the govt and if someone doesnt invade the country guess white these nice white folks gonna do?

gonna kick you black ass out or kill you...either way you wont have nothing to complain about....so i dont know about you...i rather sit an bitch tahn be dead supporting a coward

 

[a.mann]

That's fine. We can agree that he stole it. But does that make the government any less wrong? Its what whistleblowers do. It's not like they are handed evidence against their companies. Like I said I'm fine with being tapped and not knowing. It just makes it look bad on the government that they are so pressed to get this man that exposed their WRONG. If I don't know it doesn't affect me.

you not trolling are you?

because I've stated quite a few times, that all parties of this situation(the government, Greenwald, and Snowden himself) have ALL confirmed,as in verified the fact,

that Snowden stole top secret, classified information that goes BEYOND the surveillance programs.

That IS WHY the government want him back in THIS country.

And the number 1 question on any (thinking) person's mind is:



What was his purpose and motive of stealing THAT information????

 

[2stepz_ahead]

That's fine. We can agree that he stole it. But does that make the government any less wrong? Its what whistleblowers do. It's not like they are handed evidence against their companies. Like I said I'm fine with being tapped and not knowing. It just makes it look bad on the government that they are so pressed to get this man that exposed their WRONG. If I don't know it doesn't affect me.

you not trolling are you?

because I've stated quite a few times, that all parties of this situation(the government, Greenwald, and Snowden himself) have ALL confirmed,as in verified the fact,

that Snowden stole top secret, classified information that goes BEYOND the surveillance programs.

That IS WHY the government want him back in THIS country.

And the number 1 question on any (thinking) person's mind is:



What was his purpose and motive of stealing THAT information????

exactly...there are plenty of places that wont extridate you...

like india,

france with lemzola

argentina

he could have stayed in taiwan

iran

cuba

any of those places...he went straight to an enemy of the US for decades

 

[2stepz_ahead]

If a company frauds the FDA into thinking their drug is safe by doctoring up results do you think the man that comes out and speaks on it is a hero or traitor?

*AFTER if he takes the information and runs to a competitor

who in returns uses the information that effects/affects the company to the point it ends up shutting down

costing thousands of workers their jobs and lively hood.

there, completed that analogy for ya.

He is a traitor.

Because he could just as well handled all that "in house". Meaning he could have offered up variable alternatives besides placing they entire company at risk. What? I don't exactly know. But you don't burn down the whole damn house.

He leaked it then left,this is the government we are talking about. He would have wound up dead if they even thought he was going to speak. And yes burn the whole house if lies down and build a new one on the backs of the people that will fight for freedom and not espionage. Because that's what it is. Spying. If you or I were to do this because we believed that we are stopping terrorism we'd never see the light of day.

this entire post is subjective

what is NOT subjective is the fact Snowden has stolen classified information on national security of the United States,

BEYOND the surveillance programs.

Again this FACT has been confirmed by the government,Greenwald , and Snowden himself.

As a citizen of the United States, who not only travels outside the country frequently

my family, friends,close associates etc are ALSO citizens of the United States.

Some are even enlisted in the United States' military,some work overseas in foreign countries (like myself have)

many travel using the airports,bus, trains, shop at malls, go to sports stadiums etc,etc.....IN THE UNITED STATES.

Surely you get my point as to WHY

I would be invested in the security of the United States,

that goes beyond my feelings of contempt toward it's government?

That's fine. We can agree that he stole it. But does that make the government any less wrong? Its what whistleblowers do. It's not like they are handed evidence against their companies. Like I said I'm fine with being tapped and not knowing. It just makes it look bad on the government that they are so pressed to get this man that exposed their WRONG. If I don't know it doesn't affect me.

so if a school yard bully stopped you from getting jumped everyday...even tho you didnt ask for it. he is still protecting even tho his wrong for bring a bully.

we understand the govt is wrong....but what he has can destroy the govt and if someone doesnt invade the country guess white these nice white folks gonna do?

gonna kick you black ass out or kill you...either way you wont have nothing to complain about....so i dont know about you...i rather sit an bitch tahn be dead supporting a coward

Yea he's wrong for being a bully. All the right in the world won't make the 1 wrong you do go away.

Amerikkka has something called plan z. Mutually assured destruction. If I go down EARTH goes with me. How you think Amerikkka can go unchecked like it does? No one will invade us.

And I'll fight and kill for the cause that I believe in. If that happens to go against Amerikkka than so be it.

all i can say is wow..

i will fight for what i beleive also...but i just dont want it on my doorstep because of some lil white nerd that isnt worried about my black ass

 

[2stepz_ahead]

Nobody believes that treason is a good thing.

That's the case when a country is betrayed by a citizen, but really Snowden just betrayed the country's dishonesty towards all it's own people.

People seem to be angered by Snowden giving the information to Russia, but who else is there to give it to?

He had to give it to a country with no loyalty to the U.S, otherwise the leak would've been smothered.

Russia are also offering him safety, he had very few choices.

If Snowden hadn't of done what he did, those of us skeptical about the government and it's surveillance would still be being dismissed as crazy, paranoid conspiracy theorists.

The man is a hero.

@zeephoenix

how is he a hero...because he said the govt collects info?

what about the security info he stole and took to other countries and our mortal enemies? it was just about the spying its cool....but he has military secrets...an he stated he wants to talk to other countries about it.

so you still call him a hero?

so if a person saves a life hes a hero...but if he helps kills million more...is he still a hero?

or are you still one the fact he saved a life?

 

[LEMZIMUS_RAMSEY]

@zeephoenix

you re giving an outside US view. You have to understand that for the US government , he is a treator and a threat for the stolen secrets. I m French and i try to be in the place of the US.

Which government is corrupted or not is not the question. To an extent this motherfucker is threatening the whole NATO nations !

 

[2stepz_ahead]

Nobody believes that treason is a good thing.

That's the case when a country is betrayed by a citizen, but really Snowden just betrayed the country's dishonesty towards all it's own people.

People seem to be angered by Snowden giving the information to Russia, but who else is there to give it to?

He had to give it to a country with no loyalty to the U.S, otherwise the leak would've been smothered.

Russia are also offering him safety, he had very few choices.

If Snowden hadn't of done what he did, those of us skeptical about the government and it's surveillance would still be being dismissed as crazy, paranoid conspiracy theorists.

The man is a hero.

@zeephoenix

how is he a hero...because he said the govt collects info?

what about the security info he stole and took to other countries and our mortal enemies? it was just about the spying its cool....but he has military secrets...an he stated he wants to talk to other countries about it.

so you still call him a hero?

so if a person saves a life hes a hero...but if he helps kills million more...is he still a hero?

or are you still one the fact he saved a life?

He's a hero for having the bravery to stand up against such a corrupt, deceptive government.

As a human being, I would assume the right to privacy is a basic human right. Apparently not.

If he hadn't have went to America's enemies he would either have mysteriously died or would've been silenced and rotting in prison.

He went to Hong Kong where he couldn't be silenced,

And Russia where the US can't harm him. He was smart enough not to end up like poor Manning.

The mentality America has that; 'uh oh the terrorists are coming', is ridiculous.

your from ireland....would you want the govt secrets to fall into the hands of the IRA?

its not about terrorists.

an being from such a small country you are no threat to anyone so no one is building an army to defeat ireland. Britain ran thru you guys enough.

but anyway....who do you think china is building such an army for? do you know what the cold war was?

do you understand the cuban missile crisis? do you understand chinas cat an mouse game in the pacific? do you understand that china is provoking Japan? do you understand the china wants taiwan back under its rule?

terrorists is last on the list of what we are worried about, and who gives a fukk if someone is watching me on the xbox. ok so now everybody knows ...now what?

now what? all we gonna say is the govt is corrupt...then post it on facebook ...so the govt can read then store it.

its funny how spying is the only argument people have.

what the fukk you think china is doing right now? i dont hear you saying shit about that. ever country is spying. just because you dont hear about it dont mean its not happening...other countries have more loyal people.

but you call a dude a hero for exposing something that benefits the bitching and anger towards the most powerful country.

like i said....i'll even give the spying argument.....but why steal shit about national security if you wasnt planning on giving it away?

 

[2stepz_ahead]

@zeephoenix

you re giving an outside US view. You have to understand that for the US government , he is a treator and a threat for the stolen secrets. I m French and i try to be in the place of the US.

Which government is corrupted or not is not the question. To an extent this motherfucker is threatening the whole NATO nations !

exactly....the national security goes hand an hand with national interests.

now while people and govts pretend to be mad...guess who they call when the shit gets hot.....guess who?

it's our family members who go out an protect others......your welcome

but if they gotta fight ...then i dont want someone to know they are coming an set an ambush

 

[LEMZIMUS_RAMSEY]

Tje falling of an empire starts when its own people lose faith in it.

if we let China dominate and Russia climbing back we well regret it. Stop sleeping people !!!

 

[2stepz_ahead]

Tje falling of an empire starts when its own people lose faith in it.

if we let China dominate and Russia climbing back we well regret it. Stop sleeping people !!!

they dont hear you...they too angry.

china has already showed it will be way worse than the US ever will be.

they cant even have more than one kid...depending on the race...the second child might get killed.

kinda shit is that?

they got red rivers and pollution every fukking where an dont give a shit about FDA regulations.

i been to china...i saw alot of shit first hand....trust me....you dont want these people taking over.

 

[Jewpac]

Hero to the people, traitor to the government.

The government does not represent the people anymore, so their accusations do not either.

 

[7figz]

@ People who say he was a traitor... what would you have done - let your crooked government slide out of loyallty ?

 

[LEMZIMUS_RAMSEY]

@pralims

Lets not forget about Russia. They are the worst. Black people out here are living a semi segregation.

 

[2stepz_ahead]

Nobody believes that treason is a good thing.

That's the case when a country is betrayed by a citizen, but really Snowden just betrayed the country's dishonesty towards all it's own people.

People seem to be angered by Snowden giving the information to Russia, but who else is there to give it to?

He had to give it to a country with no loyalty to the U.S, otherwise the leak would've been smothered.

Russia are also offering him safety, he had very few choices.

If Snowden hadn't of done what he did, those of us skeptical about the government and it's surveillance would still be being dismissed as crazy, paranoid conspiracy theorists.

The man is a hero.

@zeephoenix

how is he a hero...because he said the govt collects info?

what about the security info he stole and took to other countries and our mortal enemies? it was just about the spying its cool....but he has military secrets...an he stated he wants to talk to other countries about it.

so you still call him a hero?

so if a person saves a life hes a hero...but if he helps kills million more...is he still a hero?

or are you still one the fact he saved a life?

He's a hero for having the bravery to stand up against such a corrupt, deceptive government.

As a human being, I would assume the right to privacy is a basic human right. Apparently not.

If he hadn't have went to America's enemies he would either have mysteriously died or would've been silenced and rotting in prison.

He went to Hong Kong where he couldn't be silenced,

And Russia where the US can't harm him. He was smart enough not to end up like poor Manning.

The mentality America has that; 'uh oh the terrorists are coming', is ridiculous.

your from ireland....would you want the govt secrets to fall into the hands of the IRA?

its not about terrorists.

an being from such a small country you are no threat to anyone so no one is building an army to defeat ireland. Britain ran thru you guys enough.

but anyway....who do you think china is building such an army for? do you know what the cold war was?

do you understand the cuban missile crisis? do you understand chinas cat an mouse game in the pacific? do you understand that china is provoking Japan? do you understand the china wants taiwan back under its rule?

terrorists is last on the list of what we are worried about, and who gives a fukk if someone is watching me on the xbox. ok so now everybody knows ...now what?

now what? all we gonna say is the govt is corrupt...then post it on facebook ...so the govt can read then store it.

its funny how spying is the only argument people have.

what the fukk you think china is doing right now? i dont hear you saying shit about that. ever country is spying. just because you dont hear about it dont mean its not happening...other countries have more loyal people.

but you call a dude a hero for exposing something that benefits the bitching and anger towards the most powerful country.

like i said....i'll even give the spying argument.....but why steal shit about national security if you wasnt planning on giving it away?

It's bad when you have to be patronising during a serious debate but ok,

Do you not realise America is provoking the middle eastern countries?

Do you understand the anti muslim propaganda that the West is being brainwashed with?

Have you not seen the evidence of the disgusting abuse American soldiers have subjected Iraqi children to?

No one is in this thread saying that China is some high, mighty moral country.

You're just seriously delusional if you think America is any better.

By your definition, a loyal person is one that doesn't stand up against the government even if they think what they're doing is wrong.

Because if he had've merely spoke upon what he knew he probably would've been labelled a mentalist.

He needed evidence, which he got, and he's extremely brave for doing what he's doing.

soory for the titangraph but uhh

i have no problem with standing up to the govt.

but the people that are crying foul have facebook, myspace, instragram and twitter and God know however many our sources of social media.

so if you put your information out there to be looked at...can you get angry if someone looks?

honestly you are looking at this the wrong way.

i am saying you should always assume you are being listened to when you make a phone call. people can hack cell phone towers an can read your texts and hear your calls.

you email goes thru some many nodes....i am sure someone is reading them other than the govt.

my argument is dont be mad at the govt ...but understand technology an understand that its technology that people seek and its technology that is collecting your information.

the govt makes it colls to have cameras in your house....if you are too ignorant to understand the bigger picture...than you are mad because your ignorant.

think about it....the xbox thingy that allows you to play a game without a remote.

it scans the room before you play...an some games it takes pictures. you just willingly allowed access to your home.

now you may say that just because you invite someone in dont give them access to snoop. and you'd be right. but i would be weary of who i let in in the first place.

think about all the selfies people take, think about all the dating sites, think about every update in status.

now while some say...it seems like i am pro-govt spying, i am actually the opposite. i am just not stupid enough to get mad at what i am allowing. and if you get mad at the govt...then you have to take the same stand towards hackers.