Frontline - Putin's Way

[kingblaze84]

^^^

The groundswell of support isn't there? Maybe not as big as Russia might make it seem but the support is strong to keep Ukraine on the losing side of this conflict so far. I know Russia is backing the rebels there and everything but it's not like eastern Ukrainians are jumping to fight Russia off either. The pro-Russian rebels couldn't do this without at least A LOT of eastern help.

Europe is slowly realizing this and I think that's why Germany and France are asking Obama, more or less, to stay out of this militarily.

 

[janklow]

The groundswell of support isn't there? Maybe not as big as Russia might make it seem but the support is strong to keep Ukraine on the losing side of this conflict so far. I know Russia is backing the rebels there and everything but it's not like eastern Ukrainians are jumping to fight Russia off either. The pro-Russian rebels couldn't do this without at least A LOT of eastern help.

you can't have this both ways: either Russia is a powerhouse that Ukraine can't do anything about, or this has nothing to do with Russia. thing is, the rebels didn't make those heavy weapons themselves and Russia literally sent in troops. so this is not about social support for referendums and autonomy (which is what the "groundswell of support" thing was about, since one presumes leaving the bankrupt Ukraine is about dissatisfaction with Ukraine, not being forced to leave at gunpoint), but rather, how much Russia wants to fuck around with Ukraine.

 

[kingblaze84]

Looks like America is unlikely to send Ukraine any weapons. Escalating the situation with Russia was never a bright idea, considering how America's disastrous wars elsewhere are going



U.S. says 'proxy war' with Russia not in Ukraine's interest


http://news.yahoo.com/u-says-proxy-war-russia-not-ukraines-interest-184102034.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States said on Tuesday it was not in the interests of Ukraine or the world to get into a proxy war with Russia over eastern Ukraine, a comment suggesting Washington is hesitant to arm Ukrainian forces.

"Our belief here in the administration, and I would be surprised if others disagree, is that getting into a proxy war with Russia is not anything that's in the interest of Ukraine or in the interest of the international community," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters. "And certainly, as we weigh options, we weigh that as one of the factors."

 

[kingblaze84]

The groundswell of support isn't there? Maybe not as big as Russia might make it seem but the support is strong to keep Ukraine on the losing side of this conflict so far. I know Russia is backing the rebels there and everything but it's not like eastern Ukrainians are jumping to fight Russia off either. The pro-Russian rebels couldn't do this without at least A LOT of eastern help.

you can't have this both ways: either Russia is a powerhouse that Ukraine can't do anything about, or this has nothing to do with Russia. thing is, the rebels didn't make those heavy weapons themselves and Russia literally sent in troops. so this is not about social support for referendums and autonomy (which is what the "groundswell of support" thing was about, since one presumes leaving the bankrupt Ukraine is about dissatisfaction with Ukraine, not being forced to leave at gunpoint), but rather, how much Russia wants to fuck around with Ukraine.

Russia did send in troops and weapons to eastern Ukraine, but most of the people fighting the Ukraine govt there aren't Russian soldiers, they're native Ukrainians according to reports I've seen. Ukraine is fucked! Hard to put a broken egg shell together, right? I see Ukraine's govt collapsing soon, a bankrupt govt also in a civil war with its own people won't last.

Plus, the ceasefire was broken today and in fact a bunch of Ukrainian soldiers were kidnapped and are being held hostage by pro-Russian rebels. Time for more sanctions I guess?

 

[janklow]

Russia did send in troops and weapons to eastern Ukraine, but most of the people fighting the Ukraine govt there aren't Russian soldiers, they're native Ukrainians according to reports I've seen.

whose reports are these

the ultimate truth is that the percentage of Russians fighting may vary, but there's a difference between the people fighting and "the population of these areas wildly supports autonomy/independence/etc"

Ukraine is fucked!

however THIS is very hard to dispute