Frontline - Putin's Way

[janklow]

I believed at one point Russia seizing Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine would ONLY be money hole for Russia but it turns out some experts believe Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine have oil reserves worth in the TRILLIONS.

well, experts believe a lot of things, so let's get something concrete before we call it a financial coup, okay? meanwhile they're having to fund a lot of Crimean (and other) stuff they probably don't love having to do with their economics right now.

 

[kingblaze84]

I believed at one point Russia seizing Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine would ONLY be money hole for Russia but it turns out some experts believe Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine have oil reserves worth in the TRILLIONS.

well, experts believe a lot of things, so let's get something concrete before we call it a financial coup, okay? meanwhile they're having to fund a lot of Crimean (and other) stuff they probably don't love having to do with their economics right now.

A nation as large as Russia and as poor as it is in my opinion would not risk so much economic pressure and its enemy NATO coming closer to it without a serious chance of reward. Putin so far is being rewarded with high approval ratings and if anything a tighter grip on power, especially after the Chinese made that huge deal with them last year. Otherwise, I don't see why Putin would be doing this either (unless he really does want to be the protector of people from eastern Ukraine......)

 

[kingblaze84]

If the U.S. Arms Ukraine, Russia Vows Retaliation

Despite President Obama’s claim on Monday that he has not yet made a decision about supplying defensive weapons to the Ukrainian army, which is battling Russia-backed separatists who want an independent region within that country, the Russian media is full of predictions. They’re warning of the terrible impact further U.S. involvement in the conflict might have.

Quoting a member of the Russian Defense Ministry's public advisory board who requested anonymity, The Moscow Times reported Monday that if the U.S. supplied arms to Ukraine, it would be viewed as an act of war.

That action would not only increase the tension in the region, it would also force the Kremlin to “respond asymmetrically against Washington or its allies on other fronts,” the publication reported.

--With that being said, Obama shouldn't give weapons to Ukraine, the war against ISIS is gonna be long enough and fighting ISIS and Russia at the same damn time is a horrible idea. But I have a feeling Congress and Obama will give Ukraine the weapons anyway.

 

[zombie]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

 

[janklow]

A nation as large as Russia and as poor as it is in my opinion would not risk so much economic pressure and its enemy NATO coming closer to it without a serious chance of reward. Putin so far is being rewarded with high approval ratings and if anything a tighter grip on power-

that's the reward right there, though.

 

[kingblaze84]

A nation as large as Russia and as poor as it is in my opinion would not risk so much economic pressure and its enemy NATO coming closer to it without a serious chance of reward. Putin so far is being rewarded with high approval ratings and if anything a tighter grip on power-

that's the reward right there, though.

Yeah and his inner circle is enjoying the power as well. No one realistically in Russia can take him on without Putin's govt and Russian crimelord connects having more powerful enemies, and we know what happens when those come around.

 

[Majorian]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

 

[janklow]

Yeah and his inner circle is enjoying the power as well. No one realistically in Russia can take him on without Putin's govt and Russian crimelord connects having more powerful enemies, and we know what happens when those come around.

i imagine there's a big fear of what happens if/when their current set-up collapses, so they have to keep it going however they can.

 

[zombie]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

 

[kingblaze84]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

So what should happen to the millions of eastern Ukrainians who are fighting to join Russia or become closer to it? Should America and Ukraine find better ways to kill and bomb them up? Because not everyone wants to stay a part of the bankrupt govt of Ukraine which can't even pay its debts and offer basic services.

 

[zombie]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

So what should happen to the millions of eastern Ukrainians who are fighting to join Russia or become closer to it? Should America and Ukraine find better ways to kill and bomb them up? Because not everyone wants to stay a part of the bankrupt govt of Ukraine which can't even pay its debts and offer basic services.

That is for the people of ukraine to decide if the people in eastern ukraine really want to be part of russia then they should be allowed to be, But at some point russia has to stopped because of it's geography russia has historically had to keep expanding it's borders for it's own safety but in 2015 russia has to recognize those days are over and anyway

In the large scheme of things russia is sinking down the toilet any way if they don't change there won't be a russia federation anymore only russia

 

[Majorian]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

Who's going to dictate leaving eastern Europe alone to the Russians? America? It's that arrogant attitude that enables people like Putin to rise to power, Russians are proud people and don't want to be told what to do especially by people who don't understand them. America is not distracted by any issues, if America wanted to focus on Russia we would have but the truth of the matter is that they are a nuclear power so the options of dealing with them is limited, sanctions is the best we can do.

This current crisis was overdue. As Putin put it in his speech at the Valdai, the Cold war ended without the signing of peace treaty and the so-called victors (which should have included the new Russian state) thought they had free hand to change the world. This inevitably put them on collision course with Russia who was not military defeated and still sees herself with an imperial destiny.

The West forgot that the Cold war couldn't have been won without Russia's cooperation. Hence they (West and Russia) were actually co-winners and should have worked together to build a new order. Part of the problem was created by Russia (Yeltsin & Gorbatchev) herself and the criminally disorganized way they mismanaged the collapse of the USSR.

Given her imperial nature, Russia cannot coexist peacefully with other imperial nations without a clear demarcation of sphere of influence. The Romanov czars and the red czar knew this all along which is why they always surrender Russia with vassal states. By trying to be buddy buddy with the West, Yeltsin and Gorbatchev failed to understand the true nature of their own country which set them apart from other countries like Germany or Japan. Putin, IMO, gets it. One can say that Vladimir Putin is the first true leader that Russia has since Josef Stalin. Putin has articulated a clear vision of the future he wants for his country. The implementation of this vision is bound to force a true reset (peaceful or bloody) with the US.

 

[kingblaze84]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

So what should happen to the millions of eastern Ukrainians who are fighting to join Russia or become closer to it? Should America and Ukraine find better ways to kill and bomb them up? Because not everyone wants to stay a part of the bankrupt govt of Ukraine which can't even pay its debts and offer basic services.

That is for the people of ukraine to decide if the people in eastern ukraine really want to be part of russia then they should be allowed to be, But at some point russia has to stopped because of it's geography russia has historically had to keep expanding it's borders for it's own safety but in 2015 russia has to recognize those days are over and anyway

In the large scheme of things russia is sinking down the toilet any way if they don't change there won't be a russia federation anymore only russia

Fair enough but I prefer Russia be dealt with by its European neighbors, even Germany and France said America shouldn't send weapons to Ukraine. It's too bad Ukraine is getting a lot of its nation taken away from it but it happens, once the elected govt was overthrown, and replaced with a govt that many people didn't want, they brought this on themselves. America has enough people losing legs and arms in battles with third world nations to get involved with one with nuclear weapons and a leader like Putin who is trying desperately to reclaim Russian greatness. A desperate nation is often a dangerous one and America doesn't need more problems in the world.

 

[zombie]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

So what should happen to the millions of eastern Ukrainians who are fighting to join Russia or become closer to it? Should America and Ukraine find better ways to kill and bomb them up? Because not everyone wants to stay a part of the bankrupt govt of Ukraine which can't even pay its debts and offer basic services.

That is for the people of ukraine to decide if the people in eastern ukraine really want to be part of russia then they should be allowed to be, But at some point russia has to stopped because of it's geography russia has historically had to keep expanding it's borders for it's own safety but in 2015 russia has to recognize those days are over and anyway

In the large scheme of things russia is sinking down the toilet any way if they don't change there won't be a russia federation anymore only russia

Fair enough but I prefer Russia be dealt with by its European neighbors, even Germany and France said America shouldn't send weapons to Ukraine. It's too bad Ukraine is getting a lot of its nation taken away from it but it happens, once the elected govt was overthrown, and replaced with a govt that many people didn't want, they brought this on themselves. America has enough people losing legs and arms in battles with third world nations to get involved with one with nuclear weapons and a leader like Putin who is trying desperately to reclaim Russian greatness. A desperate nation is often a dangerous one and America doesn't need more problems in the world.

It's european neighbors could not deal with an aggressive russia then they cannot deal with one now. The nations in europe live on american military power and have ever since ww2 ended. america is the one who really runs nato and we do most of the heavy lifiting . WE WILL never go to actually war with russia it will always be proxy war and they will lose in the end just like they lost the last cold war

 

[zombie]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

Who's going to dictate leaving eastern Europe alone to the Russians? America? It's that arrogant attitude that enables people like Putin to rise to power, Russians are proud people and don't want to be told what to do especially by people who don't understand them. America is not distracted by any issues, if America wanted to focus on Russia we would have but the truth of the matter is that they are a nuclear power so the options of dealing with them is limited, sanctions is the best we can do.

This current crisis was overdue. As Putin put it in his speech at the Valdai, the Cold war ended without the signing of peace treaty and the so-called victors (which should have included the new Russian state) thought they had free hand to change the world. This inevitably put them on collision course with Russia who was not military defeated and still sees herself with an imperial destiny.

The West forgot that the Cold war couldn't have been won without Russia's cooperation. Hence they (West and Russia) were actually co-winners and should have worked together to build a new order. Part of the problem was created by Russia (Yeltsin & Gorbatchev) herself and the criminally disorganized way they mismanaged the collapse of the USSR.

Given her imperial nature, Russia cannot coexist peacefully with other imperial nations without a clear demarcation of sphere of influence. The Romanov czars and the red czar knew this all along which is why they always surrender Russia with vassal states. By trying to be buddy buddy with the West, Yeltsin and Gorbatchev failed to understand the true nature of their own country which set them apart from other countries like Germany or Japan. Putin, IMO, gets it. One can say that Vladimir Putin is the first true leader that Russia has since Josef Stalin. Putin has articulated a clear vision of the future he wants for his country. The implementation of this vision is bound to force a true reset (peaceful or bloody) with the US.

America was distracted we had bigger issues, the middle east and the far east are the areas we are concerned with now. Before putin pulled this stunt america basically felt that our problems with russia were a thing of the past. We tried to form a new relationship with russia. We also have economic issue that we need to fix.

Russia is a major power and will continue to be but it's days of imperial glory are over and LOL at russia being a co-victor of the cold war. Russia lost and the ussr broke up, as a result russian influence in the world today is basically limited to the nations that surround it AND A few nations in the middle east. American influence is global, america basically controls the atlantic and the pasific ocean. why would there be a peace treaty for a cold war???? it's not an actual war in the common sense.

Russia should have a sphere of influence and it's within russia and not eastern europe, if russia wants to be secure then it needs to fix it's corrupt political system and horrible economy. This is not the days of the czars russia does not need land to fall back into incase of invasion it has nuclear weapons now. Putin is a leader if by leader you mean corrupt dictator. THE vision putin seems to have for the future will lead russia into a political and economic conflict with the west which it cannot win and in the end will leave russians suffering. Those sanctions are hurting russia and in an economic conflict and currency war they cannot stand up to america or the west.

RUSSIANS are a proud people but you don't eat pride, pride is not going to keep the lights on. By what right does russia feel it has to have buffer states???? and why should the free people in those nations decide to be vassals of russia???

 

[janklow]

Because not everyone wants to stay a part of the bankrupt govt of Ukraine which can't even pay its debts and offer basic services.

statistics do not show a massive groundswell of sentiment to that effect, though.

Who's going to dictate leaving eastern Europe alone to the Russians? America? It's that arrogant attitude that enables people like Putin to rise to power, Russians are proud people and don't want to be told what to do especially by people who don't understand them.

the thing i have never understood about this concept is that if the US lectures, it's outrageous, but if Russia lectures, it's a reasoned worldview? come on, now.

This current crisis was overdue. As Putin put it in his speech at the Valdai, the Cold war ended without the signing of peace treaty-

ironically, though, the USSR did end with Russia signing a treaty to "refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and (not use their weapons) against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." so would a Cold War "peace treaty" have ensured excellent behavior in perpetuity?

Given her imperial nature, Russia cannot coexist peacefully with other imperial nations without a clear demarcation of sphere of influence. The Romanov czars and the red czar knew this all along which is why they always surrender Russia with vassal states.

i love how invading and dividing neighboring nations is given this antiseptic term of "vassal states." Russia's desires must be respected! but, you know, if you're Russia's neighbors, fuck what you want if it disagrees with Russia.

and comparing Putin to Stalin a positive way is especially funny since we're warned in the absence of Putin we might get Hitler II. shit, Stalin's the one that sat down with Hitler to carve up some of those "vassal states."

 

[Majorian]

RUSSIA is a washed up and dying society with population decline, a failing currency and a corrupt government i predict that when putin dies the system he built will collapse and russia will fall into disarray with certain parts of the asian section of the country being absorbed by china or attempting to be independent. Some russian cities are already mostly ethnically chinese right now. The only thing that gives russia any leverage in the world is it's military and oil. The price of oil is set on the world market, so while it's an economic asset it can also be a weakness especially since america is set to become a major energy producer and on top of that sustainable energy is improving every couple of years.

outright naked aggression will only work on weak nations like ukraine, THE taking of Crimea was a good and necessary move but now they are pushing shit too far, risking a conflict they cannot hope to win. Even if they take all of ukraine they are going to lose in the long run. The best thing russia could do is diversify it's economy and BECOME more democratic if not at least more transparent.

The West has forgotten the lessons of the past: you do not create conditions that can produce dangerous leaders who will plunge the world

into darkness. Putin is no Hitler. But if the West succeeds in removing him, a Hitler may arise in Russia to take things in another direction.

Putin has made it clear that Russia will not stand for a NATO aligned Ukraine and he'll tear the country apart if he has to to make sure it doesn't happen.

The west did not create putin nor will we create who comes after him, the fact remains that the russia is in position to be aggressive with anyone not close to it's borders. russia no longer has the power to plunge the world into darkness without also killing itself. They need to focus on russia and leave eastern europe alone and the quicker they accept certain realities the better for them and for us. If america was not distracted with more pressing issues we could have backed russia down months ago

Who's going to dictate leaving eastern Europe alone to the Russians? America? It's that arrogant attitude that enables people like Putin to rise to power, Russians are proud people and don't want to be told what to do especially by people who don't understand them. America is not distracted by any issues, if America wanted to focus on Russia we would have but the truth of the matter is that they are a nuclear power so the options of dealing with them is limited, sanctions is the best we can do.

This current crisis was overdue. As Putin put it in his speech at the Valdai, the Cold war ended without the signing of peace treaty and the so-called victors (which should have included the new Russian state) thought they had free hand to change the world. This inevitably put them on collision course with Russia who was not military defeated and still sees herself with an imperial destiny.

The West forgot that the Cold war couldn't have been won without Russia's cooperation. Hence they (West and Russia) were actually co-winners and should have worked together to build a new order. Part of the problem was created by Russia (Yeltsin & Gorbatchev) herself and the criminally disorganized way they mismanaged the collapse of the USSR.

Given her imperial nature, Russia cannot coexist peacefully with other imperial nations without a clear demarcation of sphere of influence. The Romanov czars and the red czar knew this all along which is why they always surrender Russia with vassal states. By trying to be buddy buddy with the West, Yeltsin and Gorbatchev failed to understand the true nature of their own country which set them apart from other countries like Germany or Japan. Putin, IMO, gets it. One can say that Vladimir Putin is the first true leader that Russia has since Josef Stalin. Putin has articulated a clear vision of the future he wants for his country. The implementation of this vision is bound to force a true reset (peaceful or bloody) with the US.

America was distracted we had bigger issues, the middle east and the far east are the areas we are concerned with now. Before putin pulled this stunt america basically felt that our problems with russia were a thing of the past. We tried to form a new relationship with russia. We also have economic issue that we need to fix.

Russia is a major power and will continue to be but it's days of imperial glory are over and LOL at russia being a co-victor of the cold war. Russia lost and the ussr broke up, as a result russian influence in the world today is basically limited to the nations that surround it AND A few nations in the middle east. American influence is global, america basically controls the atlantic and the pasific ocean. why would there be a peace treaty for a cold war???? it's not an actual war in the common sense.

Russia should have a sphere of influence and it's within russia and not eastern europe, if russia wants to be secure then it needs to fix it's corrupt political system and horrible economy. This is not the days of the czars russia does not need land to fall back into incase of invasion it has nuclear weapons now. Putin is a leader if by leader you mean corrupt dictator. THE vision putin seems to have for the future will lead russia into a political and economic conflict with the west which it cannot win and in the end will leave russians suffering. Those sanctions are hurting russia and in an economic conflict and currency war they cannot stand up to america or the west.

RUSSIANS are a proud people but you don't eat pride, pride is not going to keep the lights on. By what right does russia feel it has to have buffer states???? and why should the free people in those nations decide to be vassals of russia???

America was not distracted by anything, it just can't confront Russia the same way it confronts mid eastern countries because Russia is a nuclear power, that talk of distracted by bigger issues is a cop out. America tried to form a new relationship with Russia like it forms relationships with everybody else; you have to be under it's thumb otherwise you're a threat.

Yes russia was a co-victor in the cold war because it chose the painless way to dismantle it's empire, there was nothing stopping Gorbachev from ordering the tanks to roll in when the first rebellion started, he chose not to and his rule gave rise to people like Yeltsin.

It's funny that you mention that America controls the atlantic and pacific yet you feel Russia should only be allowed to control what happens within it's borders, it smacks of arrogance. Too bad for you Putin thinks otherwise and will be more than happy to tear Ukraine apart if their decisions go against the interest of Russia (like joining NATO). Any conflict with the west will see the end of the world and NOBODY will win that war, the sooner we can just accept that we can't dictate to everybody the better for all involved.

 

[kingblaze84]

The ceasefire isn't gonna last, pro-Russian rebels are still shooting at Ukraine's government.....I wonder what Obama meant by "the stakes will rise" if the ceasefire is broken, and now it probably will be.....
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-military-says-no-let-rebel-offensive-east-091935010.html

 

[kingblaze84]

@Janklow,

A big region part of the fighting, Donetsk, actually held a vote and voted to become an independent state or nation, depending how you look at it. So yeah, a lot are with fighting for independence over in the eastern parts of the nation. Ukraine was so angry at the vote it cut off banking and supplies to Donetsk not that long ago, and the people of that region have been shooting at Ukraine's govt more and more ever since.

 

[janklow]

America tried to form a new relationship with Russia like it forms relationships with everybody else; you have to be under it's thumb otherwise you're a threat.

which is entirely different from how Russia forms relationships, because...

A big region part of the fighting, Donetsk, actually held a vote and voted to become an independent state or nation, depending how you look at it. So yeah, a lot are with fighting for independence over in the eastern parts of the nation.

we're talking about vote that had SEVERE allegations of fraud and/or non-participation. so again, i don't think the actual groundswell of support is there.