Dr Ali Muhammad vs ISUPK Hebrews

[zombie]

And FYI when Babylon the Great is destroyed, THE WHOLE EARTH IS MOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not just the red sea

"At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations." Jeremiah 50:46

That's what happens when a whole continent is DESTROYED by a nuclear fire storm. Amen.

Mystery babylon is called a woman and a CITY not a nation or a continent.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

20Therefore hear the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Edom; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the inhabitants of Teman: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitations desolate with them. 21The earth is moved at the noise of their fall, at the cry the noise thereof was heard in the Red sea. 22Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings over Bozrah: and at that day shall the heart of the mighty men of Edom be as the heart of a woman in her pangs.

ezekiel 25:13

therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will stretch out my hand against Edom and kill both man and beast. I will lay it waste, and from Teman to Dedan they will fall by the sword.14 I will take vengeance on Edom by the hand of my people Israel, and they will deal with Edom in accordance with my anger and my wrath; they will know my vengeance, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

Teman and dedan are in arabia

That prophecy is not about Babylon the Great! Why are you misquoting scripture?

I'm sick to my stomach because this is so egregious is frightening. It's like your intentionally trying to deceive people, but your not even trying to hide it.

I rebuke this teaching in the LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zombie]

20Therefore hear the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Edom; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the inhabitants of Teman: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitations desolate with them. 21The earth is moved at the noise of their fall, at the cry the noise thereof was heard in the Red sea. 22Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings over Bozrah: and at that day shall the heart of the mighty men of Edom be as the heart of a woman in her pangs.

ezekiel 25:13

therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will stretch out my hand against Edom and kill both man and beast. I will lay it waste, and from Teman to Dedan they will fall by the sword.14 I will take vengeance on Edom by the hand of my people Israel, and they will deal with Edom in accordance with my anger and my wrath; they will know my vengeance, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

Teman and dedan are in arabia

That prophecy is not about Babylon the Great! Why are you misquoting scripture?

I'm sick to my stomach because this is so egregious is frightening. It's like your intentionally trying to deceive people, but your not even trying to hide it.

I rebuke this teaching in the LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!

Mystery Babylon is in arabia and so is teman and dedan and god is going to destroy that entire area That is what ezekiel and jeremah 49 says it's clear as day to me.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Jeremiah 49 isn't about Babylon!!!!!!

Jeremiah 50-51 is about Babylon!!!!!

Stop being deceptive because I see right through it.

 

[zombie]

@DoUwant2go2Heaven?‌ what i am saying seems to have you worried you need to go back and study more and get over you american/western centered understanding of a book that has all of it's events based in the middle east

 

[zombie]

Jeremiah 49 isn't about Babylon!!!!!!

Jeremiah 50-51 is about Babylon!!!!!

Stop being deceptive because I see right through it.

yes, jeremiah 49 is about edom but edom is in arabia, the cities mentioned are all in arabia and mystery babylon is in arabia.

 

[zombie]

Jeremiah 49 is ultimately speaking of the Last-Day’s judgment of Mystery Babylon that is associated with Edom. Throughout the Bible, only Mystery Babylon is also described as being completely and utterly destroyed in this same way. Beyond this, the passage specifies that the region we are dealing with contains the cities of Teman an Dedan which are nowhere near Iraq, or ancient Babylon or rome or the united states

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Ok You trolling now.

Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will discern truth from error. Amen.

 

[zombie]

Ok You trolling now.

Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will discern truth from error. Amen.

Your arrogance know no bounds i see but you can continue to believe america is babylon but anytime you say so i will confront you about it. because i believe you to be wrong

 

[zombie]

The bible calls babylon a city yet you make it into a continent but i'm the one who is trolling. lol

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Ok You trolling now.

Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will discern truth from error. Amen.

Your arrogance know no bounds i see but you can continue to believe america is babylon but anytime you say so i will confront you about it. because i believe you to be wrong

You've refuted nothing. Everything you post is either out of context and/or has nothing to do with Babylon.

I've provided actual research while you've provided baseless claims.

And it's not about me being right! It's about God being right! I believe God. Amen

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

The bible calls babylon a city yet you make it into a continent but i'm the one who is trolling. lol

Objection 2 — “Babylon Is A City, Not A Nation”

By far the most common objection I hear about America being Babylon comes from a fixation on how it is described as a city by Revelation no less than seven times. For example, this verse calls it a city twice:

Revelation 18:10 (HCSB) — They will stand far off in fear of her torment, saying: Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the mighty city! For in a single hour your judgment has come.

How do we answer this? Well, first read another one of the “city” verses and notice what the city has:

Revelation 17:18 (HCSB) — And the woman you saw is the great city that has an empire over the kings of the earth.”

Could a mere city rule the world today without a large, major country behind it? Of course, not.

As it turns out, other details point to Babylon as a chief city of a “nation” (Jer 50:12) with farmland (Jer 50:16), and other cities (Jer 50:32; 51:43).

Then why does Revelation call it a city? It seems to be using a common convention in both ancient and modern times to refer to a nation by its chief city. The media today often uses Moscow or Washington to refer to Russia or USA, respectively.

Shouldn't the prophecy refer to Washington, then? Washington may be America's capital, but New York City is America's biggest and most important city for commerce, finance, advertising, etc. It is more distinctive. It is not so strange that a prophecy about America identifies her by her greatest and most distinctive city.

 

[zombie]

The bible calls babylon a city yet you make it into a continent but i'm the one who is trolling. lol

Objection 2 — “Babylon Is A City, Not A Nation”

By far the most common objection I hear about America being Babylon comes from a fixation on how it is described as a city by Revelation no less than seven times. For example, this verse calls it a city twice:

Revelation 18:10 (HCSB) — They will stand far off in fear of her torment, saying: Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the mighty city! For in a single hour your judgment has come.

How do we answer this? Well, first read another one of the “city” verses and notice what the city has:

Revelation 17:18 (HCSB) — And the woman you saw is the great city that has an empire over the kings of the earth.”

Could a mere city rule the world today without a large, major country behind it? Of course, not.

As it turns out, other details point to Babylon as a chief city of a “nation” (Jer 50:12) with farmland (Jer 50:16), and other cities (Jer 50:32; 51:43).

Then why does Revelation call it a city? It seems to be using a common convention in both ancient and modern times to refer to a nation by its chief city. The media today often uses Moscow or Washington to refer to Russia or USA, respectively.

Shouldn't the prophecy refer to Washington, then? Washington may be America's capital, but New York City is America's biggest and most important city for commerce, finance, advertising, etc. It is more distinctive. It is not so strange that a prophecy about America identifies her by her greatest and most distinctive city.

Sometimes a city is just a city. In jeremiah 50 A distinction is made between the city AND THE NATION

"This is the word the Lord spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians"

The description of mystery babylon in revelation 17 makes no distinction between city and nation it just says babylon is a city, therefore we should not add in our own thoughts to it. And mecca rules the muslim world period. all muslims bow there heads to it so yes a city can rule the world a

Is nyc or washington a dessert of the sea??? are they in a wilderness?? no therefore they cannot be babylon.

islam is the harlot and mecca is the city that represents her

 

[zombie]

Ok You trolling now.

Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will discern truth from error. Amen.

Your arrogance know no bounds i see but you can continue to believe america is babylon but anytime you say so i will confront you about it. because i believe you to be wrong

You've refuted nothing. Everything you post is either out of context and/or has nothing to do with Babylon.

I've provided actual research while you've provided baseless claims.

And it's not about me being right! It's about God being right! I believe God. Amen

The research you posted is faulty and i have been in context.

 

[zombie]

In revelation A nation is described as being a beast not a harlot or city, a harlot is a religion

the harlot rides a beast so in other words this harlot which is represented by a city is going to be in control of a beast which means this beast with many heads has to have an offical religion

America is against having official religions also pretty much all nations kiss saudi arabia ass because of the oil.

so arabia has a city that rules the world in some sense, it has an offical religion that hates and has killed christians also the kaabaa is covered in a material called the kiswah that is patterned with gold trimmings like it's a fucking skirt

revelation 17

" With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.'

revlation 18

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

The bible calls babylon a city yet you make it into a continent but i'm the one who is trolling. lol

Objection 2 — “Babylon Is A City, Not A Nation”

By far the most common objection I hear about America being Babylon comes from a fixation on how it is described as a city by Revelation no less than seven times. For example, this verse calls it a city twice:

Revelation 18:10 (HCSB) — They will stand far off in fear of her torment, saying: Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the mighty city! For in a single hour your judgment has come.

How do we answer this? Well, first read another one of the “city” verses and notice what the city has:

Revelation 17:18 (HCSB) — And the woman you saw is the great city that has an empire over the kings of the earth.”

Could a mere city rule the world today without a large, major country behind it? Of course, not.

As it turns out, other details point to Babylon as a chief city of a “nation” (Jer 50:12) with farmland (Jer 50:16), and other cities (Jer 50:32; 51:43).

Then why does Revelation call it a city? It seems to be using a common convention in both ancient and modern times to refer to a nation by its chief city. The media today often uses Moscow or Washington to refer to Russia or USA, respectively.

Shouldn't the prophecy refer to Washington, then? Washington may be America's capital, but New York City is America's biggest and most important city for commerce, finance, advertising, etc. It is more distinctive. It is not so strange that a prophecy about America identifies her by her greatest and most distinctive city.

Sometimes a city is just a city. In jeremiah 50 A distinction is made between the city AND THE NATION

"This is the word the Lord spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians"

The description of mystery babylon in revelation 17 makes no distinction between city and nation it just says babylon is a city, therefore we should not add in our own thoughts to it. And mecca rules the muslim world period. all muslims bow there heads to it so yes a city can rule the world a

Is nyc or washington a dessert of the sea??? are they in a wilderness?? no therefore they cannot be babylon.

islam is the harlot and mecca is the city that represents her

Wrong.

Mecca and Islam have nothing to do with Babylon the Great.

The people of God live inside Babylon the Great! That is why God calls His people to come out of Babylon the Great! how many Christians live in Mecca? This is so foolish it's insane.

And you are not following the prescription God has laid out for understanding doctrine. So this conversation is useless unless you start doing things Gods way and not your way.

Go line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.

Objection 1 — “Babylon Is a Religious/Political/Economic System”

Some think that Babylon is a “religious or political or economic system” that we need to “come out of,” such as the Vatican, the headquarters of the Catholic Church could be seen as. The following verse about what happens after Babylon falls could be used to argue that it is more than just a city or nation but must be a global system:

Revelation 18:11 (HCSB) — The merchants of the earth will also weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their merchandise any longer

Why would no one buy the merchants' goods anymore if it is just America that goes away and not a “global system?” It's not hard to explain this. When America is gone, the US dollar will no longer have backing, becoming worthless paper. Keep in mind that the US dollar is a main reserve currency of the world. If all these dollars most nations are holding suddenly lost their value overnight, it would turn the financial order upside down, causing a panic and a sure global economic collapse.

Under those conditions, naturally no one will be buying the luxury goods that the merchants are getting rich on. They will be ruined (along with everyone else fighting to survive the ensuing chaos). The global financial collapse will make the Great Recession and Great Depression look like the good old days.

Turning Mystery Babylon into a global system of whatever kind is simply unnecessary to make sense of the prophecy literally. It also creates many more problems than it solves. It require you to ignore dozens of plain passages specify a nation from which people will physically have to move out of before physical fire falls there. Notice how many times it says this:

Revelation 18:4 (HCSB) — Then I heard another voice from heaven: Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or receive any of her plagues.

Jer 50:5 — They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to God in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.

Jer 50:28 — The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of God our God, the vengeance of his temple.

Jer 51:6 — Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of God's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

Jer 51:49-50 — 49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth. 50 Ye that have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still: remember God afar off, and let Jerusalem come into your mind.

Leaving a global system of any kind does not protect you when fire is falling on the land. Just ask the people who lived in Sodom and Gomorrah—which Babylon's destruction is compared to (Jer 50:40). Lot had to physically leave Sodom to be safe from her fiery judgment. If Lot had stayed in Sodom to witness to the Sodomites, he would have been a crisp no matter how righteous he was because he disobeyed instructions. The righteous will also be physically fleeing Babylon in the future, just as Lot physically fled Sodom.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

In revelation A nation is described as being a beast not a harlot or city, a harlot is a religion

the harlot rides a beast so in other words this harlot which is represented by a city is going to be in control of a beast which means this beast with many heads has to have an offical religion

America is against having official religions also pretty much all nations kiss saudi arabia ass because of the oil.

so arabia has a city that rules the world in some sense, it has an offical religion that hates and has killed christians also the kaabaa is covered in a material called the kiswah that is patterned with gold trimmings like it's a fucking skirt

revelation 17

" With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.'

revlation 18

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!

The beast is not a religion. The beast is the antichrist indwelt by Satan.

Your doctrine is so far gone, you've missed everything.

You need to study because you are totally off the mark.

The beast is described in Revelation 17 and Revelation 12 and 13. Go study before you chime in again, because everything your posting is absolute rubbish! You're talking out of your rear and it's producing the same stuff that comes out of it. Scust.

 

[zombie]

In revelation A nation is described as being a beast not a harlot or city, a harlot is a religion

the harlot rides a beast so in other words this harlot which is represented by a city is going to be in control of a beast which means this beast with many heads has to have an offical religion

America is against having official religions also pretty much all nations kiss saudi arabia ass because of the oil.

so arabia has a city that rules the world in some sense, it has an offical religion that hates and has killed christians also the kaabaa is covered in a material called the kiswah that is patterned with gold trimmings like it's a fucking skirt

revelation 17

" With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.'

revlation 18

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!

The beast is not a religion. The beast is the antichrist indwelt by Satan.

Your doctrine is so far gone, you've missed everything.

You need to study because you are totally off the mark.

The beast is described in Revelation 17 and Revelation 12 and 13. Go study before you chime in again, because everything your posting is absolute rubbish! You're talking out of your rear and it's producing the same stuff that comes out of it. Scust.

The beast is not a religion, the harlot is the religion and beast is a nation/empire read what i write. the antichrist will be indwelt by satan. beast in the book of revelation represent various nations. you claim to be into end times prophecy and you don't know that. I know the "america is babylon" interpretation is popular but it is wrong.

The muslim in prophecy there is a figure called "the mahdi" he will be the antichrist.

 

[zombie]

The bible calls babylon a city yet you make it into a continent but i'm the one who is trolling. lol

Objection 2 — “Babylon Is A City, Not A Nation”

By far the most common objection I hear about America being Babylon comes from a fixation on how it is described as a city by Revelation no less than seven times. For example, this verse calls it a city twice:

Revelation 18:10 (HCSB) — They will stand far off in fear of her torment, saying: Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the mighty city! For in a single hour your judgment has come.

How do we answer this? Well, first read another one of the “city” verses and notice what the city has:

Revelation 17:18 (HCSB) — And the woman you saw is the great city that has an empire over the kings of the earth.”

Could a mere city rule the world today without a large, major country behind it? Of course, not.

As it turns out, other details point to Babylon as a chief city of a “nation” (Jer 50:12) with farmland (Jer 50:16), and other cities (Jer 50:32; 51:43).

Then why does Revelation call it a city? It seems to be using a common convention in both ancient and modern times to refer to a nation by its chief city. The media today often uses Moscow or Washington to refer to Russia or USA, respectively.

Shouldn't the prophecy refer to Washington, then? Washington may be America's capital, but New York City is America's biggest and most important city for commerce, finance, advertising, etc. It is more distinctive. It is not so strange that a prophecy about America identifies her by her greatest and most distinctive city.

Sometimes a city is just a city. In jeremiah 50 A distinction is made between the city AND THE NATION

"This is the word the Lord spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians"

The description of mystery babylon in revelation 17 makes no distinction between city and nation it just says babylon is a city, therefore we should not add in our own thoughts to it. And mecca rules the muslim world period. all muslims bow there heads to it so yes a city can rule the world a

Is nyc or washington a dessert of the sea??? are they in a wilderness?? no therefore they cannot be babylon.

islam is the harlot and mecca is the city that represents her

Wrong.

Mecca and Islam have nothing to do with Babylon the Great.

The people of God live inside Babylon the Great! That is why God calls His people to come out of Babylon the Great! how many Christians live in Mecca? This is so foolish it's insane.

And you are not following the prescription God has laid out for understanding doctrine. So this conversation is useless unless you start doing things Gods way and not your way.

Go line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.

Objection 1 — “Babylon Is a Religious/Political/Economic System”

Some think that Babylon is a “religious or political or economic system” that we need to “come out of,” such as the Vatican, the headquarters of the Catholic Church could be seen as. The following verse about what happens after Babylon falls could be used to argue that it is more than just a city or nation but must be a global system:

Revelation 18:11 (HCSB) — The merchants of the earth will also weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their merchandise any longer

Why would no one buy the merchants' goods anymore if it is just America that goes away and not a “global system?” It's not hard to explain this. When America is gone, the US dollar will no longer have backing, becoming worthless paper. Keep in mind that the US dollar is a main reserve currency of the world. If all these dollars most nations are holding suddenly lost their value overnight, it would turn the financial order upside down, causing a panic and a sure global economic collapse.

Under those conditions, naturally no one will be buying the luxury goods that the merchants are getting rich on. They will be ruined (along with everyone else fighting to survive the ensuing chaos). The global financial collapse will make the Great Recession and Great Depression look like the good old days.

Turning Mystery Babylon into a global system of whatever kind is simply unnecessary to make sense of the prophecy literally. It also creates many more problems than it solves. It require you to ignore dozens of plain passages specify a nation from which people will physically have to move out of before physical fire falls there. Notice how many times it says this:

Revelation 18:4 (HCSB) — Then I heard another voice from heaven: Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or receive any of her plagues.

Jer 50:5 — They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to God in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.

Jer 50:28 — The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of God our God, the vengeance of his temple.

Jer 51:6 — Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of God's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

Jer 51:49-50 — 49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth. 50 Ye that have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still: remember God afar off, and let Jerusalem come into your mind.

Leaving a global system of any kind does not protect you when fire is falling on the land. Just ask the people who lived in Sodom and Gomorrah—which Babylon's destruction is compared to (Jer 50:40). Lot had to physically leave Sodom to be safe from her fiery judgment. If Lot had stayed in Sodom to witness to the Sodomites, he would have been a crisp no matter how righteous he was because he disobeyed instructions. The righteous will also be physically fleeing Babylon in the future, just as Lot physically fled Sodom.

Actually there are christians in arabia, in mecca there are underground secret chuches. in arabia christians are small in number so there it is reasonable for them to get out and flee. where the fuck are the millions of christians in america going to go

@ THE UNDERLINED in other words i should do what you say and believe what you do even if i know it's against what the bible says. who do you think you are to tell somebody that???? but you are right talking to you is useless because you are narrow minded and think you have figured it all out. when in reality like most american christians you don't have a clue and your arrogance won't let you get one.

@ THE BOLDED when arabia is gone the businesses all over the world will suffer because the oil markets will be in chaos and oil is used somehow in the creation of almost all consumer goods.

 

[Bodhi]

First, mystery Babylon represents a religion, as @zombie says or more specifically a church. Any time an analogy like this is made in the bible, a woman is a metaphor for a church. To compare, Ephesians 5:25 says, "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" and Jesus is constantly referred to throughout the new testament as the "bridegroom" to the Church. Compare also Revelation 21 which describes New Jerusalem as a bride adorned for her husband, which is in stark contrast to the whore, Babylon. However, the city that is New Jerusalem is itself a Church being married to Christ, there is no need for a traditional temple as explained in the verses.