Don't let this be you.........

[kids in america_]

Sorry but that is not what the lake of fire is. Because that verse speaks of YHWH as a consuming fire that does not mean he is the lake of fire. Especially when you look at the fact that things are cast into the lake of fire and that is their final resting place.

Where in the scripture does it say that the "lake of fire" is the final "resting" place?

There is a hell my friend... its just not a fiery place of torment. Hades / SHeol / Gehenna all mean mankind's common grave.

I disagree that Gehenna means mankind's common grave.

The prolem you are having with that scripture is because you are using the KJV.

the NAS " who desires all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth

the NIV "who WANTS all men to be saved"

the NLT "who wants everyone to be saved"

the NKJV "who desires all men to be saved"

I could continue to show you the various translations which render the greek correctly but it is obviously useless because the point has been made

You do know the scriptures tell us that 'god' will fulfill ALL his pleasure and desires. So are you saying 'he' is not?

 

[killah_muhfucka]

Where in the scripture does it say that the "lake of fire" is the final "resting" place?

I disagree that Gehenna means mankind's common grave.

Revelation 20:14 says that death and Hades are hurled into the Lake of Fire which means the second death. The second death refers to destruction with n hope of resurrection - thus the final resting place.

Excuse me... LOL HADES / SHEOL AS I SAID REFER TO THE COMMON GRAVE. GEHENNA IS Symbolic of complete total Destruction which coresponds with the lake of fire

You do know the scriptures tell us that 'god' will fulfill ALL his pleasure and desires. So are you saying 'he' is not?

So part of his desires is destroy those ruining the earth.. WHICH THE SCRIPTURES ALSO SAY... CORRECT. Revelation 11:18 / Matthew 17:3 / in the pas he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by fire... they arent being resurrected Jude 1:7 / 2 Peter 2:6

Revelation 21:8 says that wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

You really need to stop looking at one scripture and really notice the CONTEXT of what you are reading or compare what you are reading with the whole body of scripture. Not insulting you just saying it makes finding truth much easier

 

[Israelites]

@Killa

I thought in your 1st post you mentioned Abraham being in hell. If not my bad

you right hell is the grave/earth, death is a punishment that was added to this creation, so just as it was

created by the Most High it will be destroyed by the Most High. What would be the point of the ressurection if the sinners aren't punished?

satan is a spirit being & that's why the lake of fire was made, for him & his followers, since spirit beings can't die, but they can be tortued

after the 8th day all will be spirit beings & after the judgment period we will either be in the great part of the kingdom or the least part of the kingdom,which is the lake of fire where spirits will be tormented day & night by the fire that doesn't stop & also being ate on by worms that won't be destroyed.

at this point the dead is dead where ever they may rest weather it's the grave or the sea.

But the lake of fire is more than being symbolic.

 

[killah_muhfucka]

@Killa
I thought in your 1st post you mentioned Abraham being in hell. If not my bad

you right hell is the grave/earth, death is a punishment that was added to this creation, so just as it was

created by the Most High it will be destroyed by the Most High. What would be the point of the ressurection if the sinners aren't punished?

satan is a spirit being & that's why the lake of fire was made, for him & his followers, since spirit beings can't die, but they can be tortued
after the 8th day all will be spirit beings & after the judgment period we will either be in the great part of the kingdom or the least part of the kingdom,which is the lake of fire where spirits will be tormented day & night by the fire that doesn't stop & also being ate on by worms that won't be destroyed.

at this point the dead is dead where ever they may rest weather it's the grave or the sea.

But the lake of fire is more than being symbolic.

in my first post I was referring to the illustration Jesus gave when Abraham was in hell. But yes he is in hell. Not a burning fiery place as we both know does not exist. He is in his grave/hell.

Are you saying that God is going to resurrect sinners just so they can be tortured again????

If the Lake of fire was made just his Spirit creature Followers and him... why does the bible state that humans will e thrown there to?

Do you really think God is going to resurrect wicked people to throw them in a fire to suffer forever? Especially when the scriptures don't say that.

THE LAKE OF FIRE is symbolic in that it merely symbolizes eternal destruction.

 

[Israelites]

@killa,

wait the scriptures don't say sinners will be ressurected? Are you seious? Lol

All wil be judge according to our works in the flesh_there will be a ressurection for of the saints that will fight with the Most High during the war of armaggedon_ &then the 2nd ress. Is where everyone that was born will rise & be judged .

& if you understand the scriptures you would know facts are established by two or more witnesses_ so whatever the prophets spoke of the apostles confirmed it, this is how we know what's fact & what's the writers opinion, so I will leave you with this, cause there's no point in going back & forth

Isaiah 66:24
and they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have TRANSGRESSED against ME: for THEIR WORM shall NOT DIE, NEITHER shall THEIR FIRE be QUENCHED;and they shall be an abhorring unto allflesh.

Mark 9:45-46
and if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life (eternal), then having two feet to be cast into hell, INTO the FIRE that NEVER shall be QUENCHED: 46Where THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, and the FIRE is NOT QUENCHED.

 

[Israelites]

@killa jus an fyi about the saints & sinners
take heed

Revelations 20
4) And I saw thrones, and THEY (saints) sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of GOD, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5)BUT the REST of the DEAD lived NOT AGAIN until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
6)Blessed and holy is HE that hath part in the FIRST resurrection: on such the second death hath NO power,but they shall be priests of GOD and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

read v6-9 that speaks on the war

10)And the devil that decived them was cast into the LAKE of FIRE and brimstone, where the beast (rome/abonation of desolation) and the false prophet (pope) are, and shall be TORMENTED DAY and NIGHT FOR EVER and EVER.

11)And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12)And I saw the DEAD (all who didn't come up in the 1st res.), small and great, stand before GOD; and the BOOKS (the scriptures): and another BOOK was opened, which is the BOOK of LIFE: and the dead were JUDGED out of THOSE THINGS which were WRITTEN in the BOOKS, ACCORDING to THEIR WORKS.

13) And the sea gave up the DEAD which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and THEY were judged EVERY MAN ACCORDING to THEIR WORKS.

14)And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15) And whosoever WAS NOT FOUND written in the BOOK of LIFE was CAST INTO the LAKE of FIRE

now go to Revelations 21:8 & see those that will be in the lake & also read Isaiah 66:17 , they too will join those spoken of in revelations.

 

[Israelites]

we must know that John wasn't the first to speak of the book of life the prophet Moses also spoke of this book.

Exodus 32:32-33

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their SIN; and if not, BLOT me, I pray thee, out of THY BOOK which thou hast WRITTEN.

33) And the LORD said unto Moses, WHOSOEVER hath SINNED against ME, HIM will I BLOT out of MY BOOk.

so we see whoever transgress the LORDs laws & commandments are considered sinners, since sin according to scripture is the "transgressing of the LAW" -1 John3:4

 

[The True Flesh]

The prolem you are having with that scripture is because you are using the KJV.

the NAS " who desires all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth

the NIV "who WANTS all men to be saved"

the NLT "who wants everyone to be saved"

the NKJV "who desires all men to be saved"

I could continue to show you the various translations which render the greek correctly but it is obviously useless because the point has been made

That's just plain stupid to claim that this^ is more accurate. Don't you see that that implies that God does not ALWAYS get what He wants? The KJV says "WILL HAVE" all men to be saved in no uncertain terms. I'm gonna roll with that because I'm personally more inclined to believe that an All Mighty Creator "WILL HAVE" what He wants.

A few of the posts in this thread are some of the most presumptuous babble I've ever seen. Everybody seems to have all the answers and clearly this is something that we should all acknowledge is beyond the scope of our understanding.......

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:9

I suggest reading Jude....... It profiles Y'all cats to a T. Even the angels don't speak wreckless about things that God only knows.......

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Jude 1:9-10

A bunch of brute beasts babbling on with your natural mind concerning spiritual issues SMH.

Yeshua (Jesus) separates the wheat from the tares NOT US!!!

So we have no buisness even discussing who salvation is for and who will experience torment and who wont.......

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1 Timothy 1:4-7

Y'all know it alls need to fall back ! You're embarrasing yourselves.

PEACE

 

[killah_muhfucka]

That's just plain stupid to claim that this^ is more accurate. Don't you see that that implies that God does not ALWAYS get what He wants? The KJV says "WILL HAVE" all men to be saved in no uncertain terms. I'm gonna roll with that because I'm personally more inclined to believe that an All Mighty Creator "WILL HAVE" what He wants.

A few of the posts in this thread are some of the most presumptuous babble I've ever seen. Everybody seems to have all the answers and clearly this is something that we should all acknowledge is beyond the scope of our understanding.......

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:9

I suggest reading Jude....... It profiles Y'all cats to a T. Even the angels don't speak wreckless about things that God only knows.......

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Jude 1:9-10

A bunch of brute beasts babbling on with your natural mind concerning spiritual issues SMH.

Yeshua (Jesus) separates the wheat from the tares NOT US!!!
So we have no buisness even discussing who salvation is for and who will experience torment and who wont.......

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:4-7

Y'all know it alls need to fall back ! You're embarrasing yourselves.

PEACE

Not that you are stupid..... but you should realize that versions of the bible written before the KJV that are known for far better accuracy state it that way... you must not realize that.
Obviously God desired adam and eve to not eat of the fruit and sin... but they did. No doubt he desired that all his angels continue to follow him... but they didn't. Your reasoning is so stupid it doesn't even make sense.

GOD MADE ALL HUMANS FREE MORAL AGENTS MEANING THEY DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WETHER OR NOT THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BEING HIS PEOPLE. HE WANTS ALL MEN TO BENEFIT BUT ULTIMATELY IT IS UP TO THEM TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. THAT IS WHY THE SCRIPTURE SAYS HE "DESIRES". You sound like a freaking baffoon

You are embarrassing yourself. You are coming in this discussion like you know something when you are obviously ignorant to what the bible says.
If one does not dig into the book to understand terms and have an understanding of Greek / Hebrew he can be easily misguided.

What kind of braided up fool will tell anyone not to delve into scripture not to get a proper understanding of what it is saying.
Shut your mouth and stop throwing up scriptures that prove nothing besides the fact that you are trying to sound intelligent.

PEACE

 

[The True Flesh]

Personal insults and no acknowledgement of the scriptures I posted.......Yeah, you're really wise and insightful.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:9-13

Quit trying to boast some wisdom based on your knowledge of Greek and Hebrew because it only shows how limeted YOUR understanding of the Scriptures is. And if you want to comment on somethig let it be a dialogue on the scripture I posted not my hairstyle n/h

PEACE

 

[The True Flesh]

Not that you are stupid..... but you should realize that versions of the bible written before the KJV that are known for far better accuracy state it that way

SMH @ the NIV NAS NLT and NKJV being written before the King James.

 

[killah_muhfucka]

SMH @ the NIV NAS NLT and NKJV being written before the King James.

DUmbass there are plenty in other languages written before KJV... the ones I posted were written after and some used the other versions as the basis for thier translations...
It is obviously apparent to you that I can not post up anything in Greek because you obviously could not read it. Also the fact that I posted the NEW King James Version as one of the references you should have realized I was aware of the fact it was written after...

However there are many texts in the bible that quote Salvation for ALL MEN Titus 2:11 / John 12 / etc... but since you obviously have not studied any older writings and are OBVIOUSLY }unaware of how badly the KJV translator held to their task I will give you a small lesson in the CORRECT translation.

Where those scriptures use the word "all or everyone" the greek word ORIGINALLY found there was "pas". The word takes the conotation of "every Kind" / "all sorts".

The meaning of the scripture is that God desires men of every nation or race or background or what have you to attain to life. Look at scriptures such as Acts 10"34,35 to see what these men were trying to convey.

What kind of idiot would believe that everyone is going to be saved so all the talk of a judgememtn day and people dying is all a lie.

You are confused. Study more

 

[The True Flesh]

DUmbass there are plenty in other languages written before KJV... the ones I posted were written after and some used the other versions as the basis for thier translations...

It is obviously apparent to you that I can not post up anything in Greek because you obviously could not read it. Also the fact that I posted the NEW King James Version as one of the references you should have realized I was aware of the fact it was written after...

However there are many texts in the bible that quote Salvation for ALL MEN Titus 2:11 / John 12 / etc... but since you obviously have not studied any older writings and are OBVIOUSLY }unaware of how badly the KJV translator held to their task I will give you a small lesson in the CORRECT translation.

Where those scriptures use the word "all or everyone" the greek word ORIGINALLY found there was "pas". The word takes the conotation of "every Kind" / "all sorts".

The meaning of the scripture is that God desires men of every nation or race or background or what have you to attain to life. Look at scriptures such as Acts 10"34,35 to see what these men were trying to convey.

What kind of idiot would believe that everyone is going to be saved so all the talk of a judgememtn day and people dying is all a lie.

You are confused. Study more

Still no acknowledgement of the scriptures anyone posts. If you think understanding Greek will in any way give you an atvantage in obtaining salvation I feel sorry for you. You're preaching a doctrine in which Satan will claim more souls than God thus making him the victor.......Really???

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

I'm done with your self-willed garbage.

PEACE

 

[TX_Made713]

dou, im starting to think your losing grip on reality

 

[anthony7q]

Thomas Paine-" The christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."

[video=youtube;UHiuaGJ46zo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo&feature=related[/video]

 

[TX_Made713]

Summary

...

is the bible god admitting he made a mistake?

 

[kids in america_]

Revelation 20:14 says that death and Hades are hurled into the Lake of Fire which means the second death. The second death refers to destruction with n hope of resurrection - thus the final resting place.

Excuse me... LOL HADES / SHEOL AS I SAID REFER TO THE COMMON GRAVE. GEHENNA IS Symbolic of complete total Destruction which coresponds with the lake of fire

You do know the scriptures tell us that 'god' will fulfill ALL his pleasure and desires. So are you saying 'he' is not?

So part of his desires is destroy those ruining the earth.. WHICH THE SCRIPTURES ALSO SAY... CORRECT. Revelation 11:18 / Matthew 17:3 / in the pas he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by fire... they arent being resurrected Jude 1:7 / 2 Peter 2:6

Revelation 21:8 says that wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

You really need to stop looking at one scripture and really notice the CONTEXT of what you are reading or compare what you are reading with the whole body of scripture. Not insulting you just saying it makes finding truth much easier

You didn’t really answer the question. ‘God’ says in the first person: “My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [Heb: chephets- -desire, delight “(Isa. 46:10). Now ‘god’ has stated in (I Tim. 2:4) what His desire and pleasure and that was to have ALL men to be saved. So, are you saying ‘god’ will NOT fulfill ‘his’ desire to save all humanity?

 

[killah_muhfucka]

I can see why people think Christians are idiots.

This moron asks me if I think understanding Greek is going to help me gain salvation?

It is obvious your lack of understanding is causing you to come to al the wrong conclusions. All 3 of you are quoting scriotures with incorrect translations. This is why most Christians are looked at as idiots. THE KJV is one of the most inaccurate translation and most theologians know this. You aren't being logical in your understanding of these scriptures.

One of you is saying God is going to resurrect people who have died jus so they can be thrown into the lake of fire.

THe other thinks that Hell which isn't a tangible object is going to literally be thrown into another tangible object.

Don't you think it is odd that Christians believe in concepts that aren't even found in scripture or in ONE version of the bible yet absent from all others?

Everyone going to heaven ruiling as kings over an earth were there are no people...

THe Trinity / Hellfire / the entire human population in heaven... why do you think Christians are the most divided religious group on this planet.

You keep building off scriptures that are inaccurately translated and eeryoe knows it but you, but for some reason you have this belief that the King James Version is 100% correct when it deviates greatly from all its predecessors.

 

[killah_muhfucka]

You didn’t really answer the question. ‘God’ says in the first person: “My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [Heb: chephets- -desire, delight “(Isa. 46:10). Now ‘god’ has stated in (I Tim. 2:4) what His desire and pleasure and that was to have ALL men to be saved. So, are you saying ‘god’ will NOT fulfill ‘his’ desire to save all humanity?

I am going to say this again..

THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERY MEMBER OF MANKIND, it means MEN OF ALL RACES and BACKGROUNDS and not just JEWS. It hadn't been to long that the message of the "CHRIST" had been taken not only to the JEWS but now to the GENTILES.

Lok at the word all in a variety of other places, do you really think it means every single person in eery instance that it is used? The following verse says that he gave his life as a ransom for all but that does not mean that all will accept it.
Furthermore, the scriptures that say the unforgivable sin is a grieving of the holy spirit. SO God is going to Forgive someone who commits the UNFORGIVABLE SIN just because he wants everyone to be saved? I am beginning to think you really have not thought this through or you are some weird form of new school Calvinist.

WHy should anyone follow a godly path because after all God is going to save you regardless of what you do. OOOOORRRRRR maybe God is going to let you die, then resurrect you and say.."He is it nice to be alive again? Well now you are going to burn for all eternity right next to the Devil and Hell." I stil want you to explain to anyone how HELL which you believe is a REAL place with FLAMES AND IS BURNING... IS GOING TO BE THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS ALSO A PLACE OF FLAMES AND BURNING.

For the love of god there are scriptures that clearly state that certain ones will not inherit gods kingdom and that they will be cut off.

LOOK AT YOU. the words you are stating are in contrast to these other two people but I bet all of you think you know what you are talking about.

 

[killah_muhfucka]

Summary

...

I wish the stone cold logic you use could be given to people who actually know what the scriptures say so that the correct conclusions would be drawn. THe image you posted and the beliefs you are stating truly do sound FOOLISH. These thoughts aren't even found in the bible yet people believe them.

1. YHWH did not create man with Original Sin... the committed the sin of their own free will. They were perfect beings and they made this decision on their own.

2. Yehoshua / Jesus is not the same as YHWH... not a biblical teaching and this can easily be seen through the scriptures. THe trinity was never a teaching the Hebrews prescribed to and this teaching was introduced WHICH HISTORY CLEARLY STATES 200+ years after the bible was completed. Some enlightened person even showed this by means of a youtube video. I stated it like 4 pages ago but whatever. THerefre YHWH did not impregnate Mary with Himself... it was his son. THis is far more believable and makes far more sense

3. Once again Yehoshua and YHWH are not the same so he didn't sacrifice himself to himself. Adam was a PERFECT MAN whose sin threw mankind into a negative spiral leading to death. Yehoshua a PERFECT MAN had to in turn give his life in order to balance the scales so to speak. As YHWH says an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. He even went so far as to apply that righteous rule in regards to his son... PERFECT LIFE for PERFECT LIFE.

Now you may not believe in God and that is cool - but doesn't the information about make far more sense then what the above image shows and what most misguided Christians believe?