Cuba removed from U.S. terrorism list

[LONDON!]

I conceded that mass murders of political rivals don't occur in America when I left them out of where I bolded.

fair enough, although it seems like a little bit of a dodge given the statement you started with. as for propping up regimes that murdered political rivals? i think basically every nation that meddled during the Cold War did this and, for the record, i don't think i ever said it was a good thing.

I don't care about what Cuba says about U.S. My point is that the United States and Americans as a whole are hypocritical to speak on the human rights abuses of the Castro regime when United States is guilty of sooooo many human rights abuses that are definitely comparable. We could literally go tit for tat. I never praised Cuba as better.

it's fine if you don't care what the US says. but if you're criticizing the US for pointing fingers (fine), you should admit that Cuba does the exact same thing. so the complaint about the US thinking its shit doesn't stink is something that, perhaps sadly, remains universal.

serious question, are you austistic? or do you have asperghus syndrome?

and i ain't trying too be funny

serious question: are you actually going to debate the topic in this thread, or just move over to 100% shit-posting? because there is another sub-forum for that.

post there if you have nothing to add to the conversation BUT talking trash.

i was asking a perfectly legitimate question & wasn't trying too be funny, but your actions, actions & reactions, content, which all adds up too mentality, has answered my question anyways, from that now it ain't that serious, i'm gone

 

[Stiff]

I conceded that mass murders of political rivals don't occur in America when I left them out of where I bolded.

fair enough, although it seems like a little bit of a dodge given the statement you started with. as for propping up regimes that murdered political rivals? i think basically every nation that meddled during the Cold War did this and, for the record, i don't think i ever said it was a good thing.

I don't care about what Cuba says about U.S. My point is that the United States and Americans as a whole are hypocritical to speak on the human rights abuses of the Castro regime when United States is guilty of sooooo many human rights abuses that are definitely comparable. We could literally go tit for tat. I never praised Cuba as better.

it's fine if you don't care what the US says. but if you're criticizing the US for pointing fingers (fine), you should admit that Cuba does the exact same thing. so the complaint about the US thinking its shit doesn't stink is something that, perhaps sadly, remains universal.

serious question, are you austistic? or do you have asperghus syndrome?

and i ain't trying too be funny

serious question: are you actually going to debate the topic in this thread, or just move over to 100% shit-posting? because there is another sub-forum for that.

post there if you have nothing to add to the conversation BUT talking trash.

Well there don't seem to be any Cubans in this thread to shit on directly so the only alternative is shitting on hypocritical Americans.

 

[StillFaggyAF]

explain to me why doctors for oil with Venezuela is bad. there's no oil in the Caribbean (outside of the islands off of Venezuela) if you didn't know janklow

because it helps stabilize a thoroughly corrupt and repressive government in Venezuela? though, to be fair, Cuba did more with them than just trade doctors...

also, to be anal-retentive, i believe Barbados, Cuba and Trinidad & Tobago all TECHNICALLY have oil (and i think only T&T exports).

is that worse than the US getting oil from Saudi Arabia? the only places with proven oil in the Caribbean is Trinidad (which is off the coast of Venezuela)

 

[Stiff]

I conceded that mass murders of political rivals don't occur in America when I left them out of where I bolded.

fair enough, although it seems like a little bit of a dodge given the statement you started with. as for propping up regimes that murdered political rivals? i think basically every nation that meddled during the Cold War did this and, for the record, i don't think i ever said it was a good thing.

I don't care about what Cuba says about U.S. My point is that the United States and Americans as a whole are hypocritical to speak on the human rights abuses of the Castro regime when United States is guilty of sooooo many human rights abuses that are definitely comparable. We could literally go tit for tat. I never praised Cuba as better.

it's fine if you don't care what the US says. but if you're criticizing the US for pointing fingers (fine), you should admit that Cuba does the exact same thing. so the complaint about the US thinking its shit doesn't stink is something that, perhaps sadly, remains universal.

serious question, are you austistic? or do you have asperghus syndrome?

and i ain't trying too be funny

serious question: are you actually going to debate the topic in this thread, or just move over to 100% shit-posting? because there is another sub-forum for that.

post there if you have nothing to add to the conversation BUT talking trash.

And also how is it a dodge when the statement I started with was: I'm ignorant to the issue...what are some things that the Castro regime has done to its people that the United States Government or various state/local government haven't done to theirs?

The only thing that can be pointed to is the mass murder of political rivals…but the United States has literally funded the mass murder of political rivals worldwide.

And then you use the term "mass murder" .. what are the exact numbers on that? And also how does that number compare to police shootings in the United States?

 

[janklow]

i was asking a perfectly legitimate question-

no, you didn't. you're doubling down on it now with the "who, me?" act, so i'll repeat myself: serious question: are you actually going to debate the topic in this thread, or just move over to 100% shit-posting? because there is another sub-forum for that.

-but your actions, actions & reactions, content, which all adds up too mentality, has answered my question anyways

point confirmed. post on topic or take the 100% shit-talk to Donkey.

Well there don't seem to be any Cubans in this thread to shit on directly so the only alternative is shitting on hypocritical Americans.

oh, please. if you want to debate angrily, fine, but give me a case as to how posts that ONLY contain insults for other posters (including myself) belong outside of Donkey or don't defend them, okay?

 

[janklow]

is that worse than the US getting oil from Saudi Arabia?

separate issue but sadly Saudi Arabia might not even be as corrupt and abusive as Venezuela

the only places with proven oil in the Caribbean is Trinidad (which is off the coast of Venezuela)

i phrased it a little lightly but Cuba and Barbados DO have proven oil. the bigger issue for them is they have small deposits and are easily net importers.

 

[janklow]

And also how is it a dodge when the statement I started with was: I'm ignorant to the issue...what are some things that the Castro regime has done to its people that the United States Government or various state/local government haven't done to theirs?

the thing about this statement is it's phrased like you're saying "throw something at me so i can refute it." if you're honestly saying "i have no clue about the history of Cuba and its excesses" then i concede the point.

The only thing that can be pointed to is the mass murder of political rivals…but the United States has literally funded the mass murder of political rivals worldwide.

to be fair, it's not the ONLY thing. this is why i said (bold for emphasis): "if you think the US is comparable to Cuba on any of these fronts (i would debate them, but let's just start there)". but what you're calling "literally funded the mass murder of political rivals worldwide," aside from me wondering what you're shoving under THAT umbrella, is being compared to "we rounded a bunch of people up in prison and killed them."

And then you use the term "mass murder" .. what are the exact numbers on that? And also how does that number compare to police shootings in the United States?

short start: police shootings are largely not federal (this is a big distinction between the US and Cuba, to be fair) and not "mass murder."

 

[Stiff]

And also how is it a dodge when the statement I started with was: I'm ignorant to the issue...what are some things that the Castro regime has done to its people that the United States Government or various state/local government haven't done to theirs?

the thing about this statement is it's phrased like you're saying "throw something at me so i can refute it." if you're honestly saying "i have no clue about the history of Cuba and its excesses" then i concede the point.

The only thing that can be pointed to is the mass murder of political rivals…but the United States has literally funded the mass murder of political rivals worldwide.

to be fair, it's not the ONLY thing. this is why i said (bold for emphasis): "if you think the US is comparable to Cuba on any of these fronts (i would debate them, but let's just start there)". but what you're calling "literally funded the mass murder of political rivals worldwide," aside from me wondering what you're shoving under THAT umbrella, is being compared to "we rounded a bunch of people up in prison and killed them."

And then you use the term "mass murder" .. what are the exact numbers on that? And also how does that number compare to police shootings in the United States?

short start: police shootings are largely not federal (this is a big distinction between the US and Cuba, to be fair) and not "mass murder."

People in this thread were making it seem as if Castro was more treacherous than the things that I had heard about so i was wondering if there was something more agregious

The United States government has at various times funded regimes that committed mass murders… here's an article

10 vicious dictators supported by the U.S. government

And yes a person who's government has financed mass murders globally does not have the moral authority to chastise the Cuban government without first denouncing their own government.

Correct, police shootings are largely not federal…but I'm comparing the killing of citizens by government forces in the U.S to killing of citizens to government forces in Cuba. So when including ALL people killed by government forces (federal, state, local) of the U.S. vs people killed by the Cuban government I would argue that police shootings are our version of "mass murder". It's a slower drip which gives comparable numbers…… These are Americans that have been killed by the government…without due process under varying circumstances. It seems like you're arguing "it didn't happen all at once so it's better" .

 

[StillFaggyAF]

is that worse than the US getting oil from Saudi Arabia?

separate issue but sadly Saudi Arabia might not even be as corrupt and abusive as Venezuela

the only places with proven oil in the Caribbean is Trinidad (which is off the coast of Venezuela)

i phrased it a little lightly but Cuba and Barbados DO have proven oil. the bigger issue for them is they have small deposits and are easily net importers.

lol at Saudi being better than Venezuela. i'm done.

 

[janklow]

The United States government has at various times funded regimes that committed mass murders… here's an article

i feel like Cuba being a mass murderous regime would be worse than funding other people's murder (they're both bad, obviously)

And yes a person who's government has financed mass murders globally does not have the moral authority to chastise the Cuban government without first denouncing their own government.

is it financing mass murder globally or financing governments that have committed mass murder?

also, i don't think i said it was appropriate for the US to do that, so i suppose there's that as well?

Correct, police shootings are largely not federal…but I'm comparing the killing of citizens by government forces in the U.S to killing of citizens to government forces in Cuba.

except that when you add in "government forces" not actually controlled by the government, it starts to look like we're doing what we can to fudge the numbers. ADDITIONALLY, there's obviously a distinction between "government has prisoners shot" and "police office in X state shot someone under questionable circumstances" that i think is being skipped over here.

AND i have to ask, are you doing this per capita or are you just comparing raw numbers, because the NEXT question is, you know the US is slightly larger than Cuba, right?

It seems like you're arguing "it didn't happen all at once so it's better" .

i'm actually arguing the comparison isn't a good one.

 

[janklow]

lol at Saudi being better than Venezuela. i'm done.

going to point out that this is the actual quote: "Saudi Arabia might not even be as corrupt and abusive as Venezuela." "better" is something else.

Venezuela is pretty fucked up right now. it's not a status that requires an embrace of Islamic fundamentalism.

 

[Stiff]

this post epitomizes American hypocrisy.

The United States government has at various times funded regimes that committed mass murders… here's an article

i feel like Cuba being a mass murderous regime would be worse than funding other people's murder (they're both bad, obviously)

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. Especially being that America totes itself as a beacon of democracy and justice worldwide (until democracy and justice is inconvenient)

And yes a person who's government has financed mass murders globally does not have the moral authority to chastise the Cuban government without first denouncing their own government.

is it financing mass murder globally or financing governments that have committed mass murder?

also, i don't think i said it was appropriate for the US to do that, so i suppose there's that as well?

Ummmm yeah it's definitely financing mass murder globally. If we pay money... to autocratic regimes…to help them maintain power…and one of the ways they maintain power is through mass murder …then we financed mass murder. You think America should get a pass because we don't send checks to dictators that say "Mass Murder Money" in the memo line?

And no, you didn't explicitly say that it was appropriate for America to do that…but when you say things like " Cuba have this weird fandom where a guy like Castro can literally reign as a dictator for decades and be seen as a force of righteous freedom" I find it ironic…when you have a government in America that goes from nation to nation installing autocrats, paying for mass murders to be done to protect its interests and policies that oppress its own minorities…all while maintaining sizable fandom. The man in your avi said it best, "American democracy is hypocrisy".

Correct, police shootings are largely not federal…but I'm comparing the killing of citizens by government forces in the U.S to killing of citizens to government forces in Cuba.

except that when you add in "government forces" not actually controlled by the government, it starts to look like we're doing what we can to fudge the numbers. ADDITIONALLY, there's obviously a distinction between "government has prisoners shot" and "police office in X state shot someone under questionable circumstances" that i think is being skipped over here.

But we already established that Cuba doesn't have a federalist style of government like the U.S. does…it has a unitary state. That being the case it's not an accurate comparison to line up Castro's regime with just the Federal Government of the United States when in the case of Cuba, Castro's regime also plays the role that state/county/local governments do here. The state/county/local governments in the US are all subordinate to the federal government.

I'm comparing killings of United States citizens by government in the United States (as opposed to the United States Government) to killings by government in Cuba. Stop looking for arbitrary technicalities (nice try though).

And yes of course there are distinctions but I don't think either one is better than the other..we have two scenarios where the government is killing its citizens…both without trial. Sure you can say "oh it's not the exact same situation as in Cuba so it's automatically not as bad" but in actuality very few developed countries (if any) kills it's citizens at the same rate the United States does. (and NO other country in the world incarcerates it's citizens at the rate the US does…not even Cuba)

And as far as comparisons being raw numbers vs per capita…I can only guess. United States doesn't keep records of the people that are killed by police just like it's unlikely for me to find accurate numbers on how many people Castro has killed.

It seems like you're arguing "it didn't happen all at once so it's better" .

i'm actually arguing the comparison isn't a good one.

Lol you would argue that now wouldn't you.

 

[kingblaze84]

lol at Saudi being better than Venezuela. i'm done.

going to point out that this is the actual quote: "Saudi Arabia might not even be as corrupt and abusive as Venezuela." "better" is something else.

Venezuela is pretty fucked up right now. it's not a status that requires an embrace of Islamic fundamentalism.

Venezuela is fucked up, they are running out of many basic supplies (for American standards) but the Saudis do have the more abusive govt, how many corrupt wars worldwide is Venezuela fighting? How many hospitals and schools is Venezuela blowing up?

Does Venezuela's govt behead people for not being Muslim anymore, and even prevent women from driving? I'd say Saudi Arabia is way more abusive to people worldwide compared to Venezuela's govt. Venezuela's govt might be a little more corrupt though, haven't heard of the Saudis running out of tissue or paper towels

 

[janklow]

this post epitomizes American hypocrisy.

at some point, repeated bold declarations of someone else's hypocrisy are simply one's own hypocrisy.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. Especially being that America totes itself as a beacon of democracy and justice worldwide (until democracy and justice is inconvenient)

are you going to tell me with a straight face that a country like Cuba DOESN'T tout themselves as a beacon of (insert positive values here)? because this is a thing that every country does.

You think America should get a pass because we don't send checks to dictators that say "Mass Murder Money" in the memo line?

i think we should bash America for supporting dictators and not give Cuba a pass either. is that hard to do?

And no, you didn't explicitly say that it was appropriate for America to do that…but when you say things like " Cuba have this weird fandom where a guy like Castro can literally reign as a dictator for decades and be seen as a force of righteous freedom" I find it ironic…when you have a government in America that goes from nation to nation installing autocrats, paying for mass murders to be done to protect its interests and policies that oppress its own minorities…all while maintaining sizable fandom.

and yet, here's the thing: if we come into this thread and criticize American policies for whatever reason, that's cool. and it should be. but if we criticize Cuba, how dare we exhibit American hypocrisy, because Cuba ... uh ... well, we're not going to be defending Cuba here for some reason.

you want to talk about hypocrisy? giving a country like Cuba a pass for anything bad it does because America has also done bad things is the most common kind of hypocrisy found on this forum. and i am still going to point out that if you think the US president or Congress sucks, you can at least vote against them and see them leave office in this country. it IS a little easier to take your "beacon of freedom" stance when your country isn't run by one of those murderous autocrats.

I'm comparing killings of United States citizens by government in the United States (as opposed to the United States Government) to killings by government in Cuba. Stop looking for arbitrary technicalities (nice try though).

i know, i know, it's very difficult to debate a topic without making it personal.

the distinction i'm making is that a local jurisdiction in the US can have policies that result in a police officer killing someone that are not directed by the federal government. per your breakdown, that doesn't happen in Cuba because the equivalent is part and parcel of the federal government and thus directed by it. further, if we're talking about rounding up and executing prisoners, this is actually different than police officers shooting people because of some bullshit law or their own personal issues.

And yes of course there are distinctions-

sorry, that's "arbitrary technicalities," i think.

-but I don't think either one is better than the other..we have two scenarios where the government is killing its citizens…both without trial. Sure you can say "oh it's not the exact same situation as in Cuba so it's automatically not as bad" but in actuality very few developed countries (if any) kills it's citizens at the same rate the United States does.

fine, don't say "the US is better than Cuba." but this is not an argument that says Cuba can't be criticized.

also, the "developed countries" theory starts this slippery slope where someone names a country and someone else has to argue why that country is not "developed." so you might want to define what that means before someone starts telling me why Mexico and Russia aren't developed nations (completely separate debate, but one that got weird in that regard).

And as far as comparisons being raw numbers vs per capita…I can only guess.

i don't know exactly what this means, because your statement was "It's a slower drip which gives comparable numbers," which implies, whatever the figures, you have SOME basis for the claim, right? so is the basis raw numbers of people killed? or a per capita thing? or literally just a feeling?

Lol you would argue that now wouldn't you.

right, i would, but i would also be more interested in debating the topic than the people making it. so there's that as well.

 

[janklow]

Venezuela is fucked up, they are running out of many basic supplies (for American standards) but the Saudis do have the more abusive govt, how many corrupt wars worldwide is Venezuela fighting? How many hospitals and schools is Venezuela blowing up?

well, SA is fighting, what, one war and Venezuela is fighting zero and i'm sitting here saying "does either of those numbers mean they do or don't abuse their OWN population?

Does Venezuela's govt behead people for not being Muslim anymore, and even prevent women from driving?

no, Venezuela's government just cosigns street gangs killing you for not agreeing with its politics. it's possible each country can be shitty in its OWN WAY.

 

[Stiff]

this post epitomizes American hypocrisy.

at some point, repeated bold declarations of someone else's hypocrisy are simply one's own hypocrisy.

Lol this is one of those things that sounds good but actually make no sense.

big up the castros, there shower, 50 years on & still standing, how many devil presidents of the US goverment have come & gone

ironically, this points out that in the US, we actually elect presidents instead of having decades of dictatorship

but big up the Castros for 56 years of not giving a shit about the rights of Cubans!

^^^^ Your first post in this thread.

How are you quick to condemn the Castros for 56 years of "not giving a shit about the rights of Cubans!" but also quick to defend America for 300+ years for not giving a shit about the rights of its minorities?

This is the sentiment that you keep trying to deflect from. I'm not interesting in hearing any American denounce the human rights records of Cuba until they denounce the human rights record of their own nation first. Anything less would be…..

Spoiler

hypocritical.

 

[kingblaze84]

Venezuela is fucked up, they are running out of many basic supplies (for American standards) but the Saudis do have the more abusive govt, how many corrupt wars worldwide is Venezuela fighting? How many hospitals and schools is Venezuela blowing up?

well, SA is fighting, what, one war and Venezuela is fighting zero and i'm sitting here saying "does either of those numbers mean they do or don't abuse their OWN population?

Does Venezuela's govt behead people for not being Muslim anymore, and even prevent women from driving?

no, Venezuela's government just cosigns street gangs killing you for not agreeing with its politics. it's possible each country can be shitty in its OWN WAY.

Both Venezuela and Saudi Arabia have problems, but I think I'd have more freedoms in Venezuela compared to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has the advantage of having less crime, I'll admit that, but that's really as far as it goes.

 

[beneath the surface]

Have learnt a lot over the years I been coming to this site not trying to put u down but JANKLOW YOU either trying to wind people up or your deluded my brother. Your the reason y people round the world think bad of Americans. I more lean to I think you winding people up cause no one cab b that stupid.

 

[janklow]

Lol this is one of those things that sounds good but actually make no sense.

please. i guarantee for all your "I'm not interesting in hearing any American denounce the human rights records of Cuba until they denounce the human rights record of their own nation first," there's something out there that you give a pass to when you like whoever's doing it. how many posters on this forum rail against country X or politician Y and say nothing when their side is doing the same shit?

How are you quick to condemn the Castros for 56 years of "not giving a shit about the rights of Cubans!" but also quick to defend America for 300+ years for not giving a shit about the rights of its minorities?

possibly because i was responding to someone who burst with uncritical passion for outlasting elected officials BECAUSE THEY ARE DICTATORS?

This is the sentiment that you keep trying to deflect from. I'm not interesting in hearing any American denounce the human rights records of Cuba until they denounce the human rights record of their own nation first.

i mean, you're going back and pulling my quotes; do you want to pull the ones where i didn't criticize the things the US does that you're complaining about?

 

[janklow]

Both Venezuela and Saudi Arabia have problems, but I think I'd have more freedoms in Venezuela compared to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has the advantage of having less crime, I'll admit that, but that's really as far as it goes.

ultimately neither is an ideal situation if you're not in line with the ruling government.

Have learnt a lot over the years I been coming to this site not trying to put u down but JANKLOW YOU either trying to wind people up or your deluded my brother. Your the reason y people round the world think bad of Americans. I more lean to I think you winding people up cause no one cab b that stupid.

yeah, you got me. i, random dude on a hip-hop internet forum, am the reason why "people round the world think bad of Americans." sorry about that.