Arguments For and Against Reparations

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Maximus Rex

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4) The program will work severe inequities.

Affirmative action’s quirks and injustices are notorious. But they will be nothing compared to the strange consequences of a reparations program. Not all black people are poor. Not all non-black people are rich. Does Oprah have a housecleaner? Who changes the diapers of Beyonce’s baby? Who files Herman J. Russell’s taxes? Will their wages be taxed and the proceeds redirected to their employers?

Within the target population, will all receive the same? Same per person, or same per family? Or will there be adjustment for need? How will need be measured? Will convicted criminals be eligible? If not, the program will exclude perhaps one million African Americans. If yes, the program would potentially tax victims of rape and families of the murdered for the benefit of their assailants.

And if reparations were somehow delivered communally and collectively, disparities of wealth and power and political influence within black America will become even more urgent. Simply put, when government spends money on complex programs, the people who provide the service usually end up with much more sway over the spending than the spending’s intended beneficiaries. The poorer the beneficiaries, the more powerfully this rule holds—and it has held strongest of all in programs intended to aid the black poor. The District of Columbia public schools have excelled at delivering stable jobs to their unionized employees. They have failed their students.

5) The legitimacy of the project will rapidly fade.

Affirmative action ranks among the least popular thing that U.S. governments do. When surveyed, white Americans crushingly reject race preferences, Hispanic Americans object by a margin of 2 to 1, and black Americans are almost evenly divided, with only the slightest plurality in favor.

Now imagine how Americans will feel when what is redistributed by racial calculus is not university admissions or workplace promotions but actual, foldable cash.

Ta-Nehisi Coates anticipates this trouble by suggesting that reparations might be paid not to individuals but collectively to African Americans as a group. He favorably cites the example of German reparations to the state of Israel after World War II.

But the state of Israel was a sovereign, elected by a democratic process. Few in the Jewish world doubted that Israel could and did act for the Jewish people as a whole. Black Americans, however, do not have a state of their own. If reparations are deemed some kind of collective debt to black Americans as a group, rather than to black Americans as individuals, then the question will arise: Who decides how this money will be distributed? Some kind of National Endowment for Black America? Chosen how? Accountable to whom?

Harvard Law professor Charles Ogletree suggests widening the concept of reparations even further, into a national "program of job training and public works that takes racial justice as its mission but includes the poor of all races.” In that case, reparations would cease to be a new program, but would become instead a new argument in favor of the preexisting policy preferences of the left wing of the Democratic party. Earlier in his article, Coates quotes with seeming disdain the radio host Rush Limbaugh’s disparagement of the Affordable Care Act as a form of “reparations." But aren’t Limbaugh and Ogletree more or less in agreement here?

Coates dismisses all these questions and so many others. He suggests the country first enact Rep. John Conyers’ Reparations Bill and then open a discussion about how reparations would work. But committing yourself to a solution before you have any idea whether such a solution is workable—or, rather, in defiance of pretty strong reasons that your solution is utterly unworkable—is not a responsible reaction to America’s racial dilemmas.

Instead, we’ll be all too likely to repeat once more the sad pattern of so many civil rights initiatives: the bold announcement, the raised hopes, the unexpected difficulties, the suppression of open discussion of those difficulties, the ossifying of the project into bureaucracy, the realization of failure, the discovery of the political impossibility of reforming or repairing the failure.

In his Lincoln Memorial address of 1963, Martin Luther King spoke of the words of the Declaration of Independence as “promissory note” on which the nation had defaulted. He meant this as a metaphor, not a financial analysis. Ta-Nehisi Coates has taken him literally. King understood, however, that the wrongs of which he spoke could not be redressed with money (or money alone), and that is even more true today than in 1963.


 
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A real-world example:

Young black Americans spend on average 4.5 hours more per day with electronic media (notably television, video games, and other forms of online entertainment) than do their white counterparts, for a total in excess of 13 hours. While all young people spend a lot of time in front of screens, black youth watch far and away the most television: almost 3.5 hours per day, or an hour and a quarter more than young whites. Almost 80 percent of black youth say they "usually" eat meals in front of a TV.

The disparity is growing wider, not narrowing, as more forms of electronic media become available. The disparity shrinks, but does not disappear, with education and income. The best predictor of how much TV a child will watch is not whether he or she lives in a single or two-parent family. It is not family income or wealth. It is race: Even the most advantaged black youth spend 90 minutes more per day with electronic media than do their white contemporaries. It won’t surprise you to hear that heavy use of electronic media correlates with all kinds of bad outcomes, from obesity to poor school performance. (Across all races, only about 16-20 minutes per day of screentime is connected to schoolwork.)

It’s not difficult to draw a chain of causation from the exploitation so stirringly described by Ta-Nehisi Coates to the TV-dependence of black youth in the 2010s. In this case, however, detailing the cause does not reveal the remedy. To realize their full potential, those kids must watch less TV. No plausible government program can shut down their devices for them. That decision—like almost every decision that leads to self- and collective improvement—must come from within families and within individuals.

The great white lie America tells itself is that the passage of civil-rights laws in the 1960s and '70s lifted the burden of the racial past. But racial subjugation imposed over 350 years could not and was not alleviated over a single generation. Today’s white Americans inherit financial assets and human capital accumulated over a long span of time—and very possibly by robbing or cheating victims of color.

In refuting that lie, however, Ta-Nehisi Coates advances an error that also does harm: that black Americans can build their future by debunking white Americans’ illusions about their past. It does not work that way. Racism may have turned the TV set on. Anti-racism won’t turn the TV set off.

The government of the United States could trace the genealogy of every white family and send a massive bill to the descendants of every slaveholder and every slumlord who did business from 1619 through 1968. It could redistribute that money in a princely lump sum. But that money won’t change unhealthy dietary patterns, or enhance language skills, or teach the habits on which thriving communities are built.

Germany and Israel may not be historically exact precedent for Coates’s plan. The more exact precedent may be the sudden surge of oil wealth into the Middle East after 1973. Nations that had always felt themselves cheated of their due suddenly saw their incomes triple and quadruple. Yet the nations did not progress. The wealth of nations is built on their human capital—and the oil income not only failed to enrich them, but oftentimes incentivized behavior that left (or will leave) those nations in many ways worse off than before.

The human qualities that advance a community and a nation were defiantly acquired by black Americans themselves under conditions of horrifying adversity. Their development has accelerated as equality has come nearer to view.


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Disparities remain, of course. Coates challenges all Americans to remember where those disparities came from—and to think hard what is owed to those on the wrong end of them.

What I’m talking about is more than recompense for past injustices—more than a handout, a payoff, hush money, or a reluctant bribe. What I’m talking about is a national reckoning that would lead to spiritual renewal. Reparations would mean the end of scarfing hot dogs on the Fourth of July while denying the facts of our heritage. Reparations would mean the end of yelling “patriotism” while waving a Confederate flag. Reparations would mean a revolution of the American consciousness, a reconciling of our self-image as the great democratizer with the facts of our history.

If “reparations” means remembrance and repentance for the wrongs of the past, then let’s have reparations. Americans tell a too-flattering version of their national story. They treat slavery as ancillary rather than essential. They forget that the work of slaves paid this country’s import bill from the 17th century until 1860. They do not acknowledge that the “freedom” championed by slaveholding Founding Fathers, including the author of the Declaration of Independence, included the freedom to own other human beings as property. They can no longer notice how slavery is stitched into every line of the Constitution and was supported by every single early national institution. The self-reckoning we see in Germany and other European countries does not come easily to Americans—and is still outright rejected by many.

If “reparations” means intensifying the nation’s commitment to equal opportunity for all its people—and most especially for the descendants of those once enslaved—then (again) let’s have reparations. Better schools, more jobs, some form of universal health coverage, an immigration policy that does not exert endless downward pressure on the wages of America’s least skilled workers, improved nutrition especially in early childhood, higher taxes on alcohol, more effective and less punitive enforcement of drug laws—there’s a program of group betterment awaiting the right advocates at the right time.

But if “reparations” means what most Americans reasonably interpret it to mean—cash flowing from some Americans to others in race-conscious ways meant to redress the racial wrongs of the past—then it’s a disastrous idea for all groups in society.

And if, when you advocate reparations, you aren’t sure which of the above things it does mean, then your advocacy should be postponed until you are.


 
True reparations must be taken. There's no way around it.

As a principle in Life, if you believe something is owed to you or belongs to you, you go out and TAKE that and MAKE things happen. Asking/demanding reparations is approaching Life as an employee and not as the entrepreneurs Life requires us to be. The receiver will always be subject to the giver.

There is no asking or protesting.

Who's really free, the one who was given freedom through the permission of their oppressor or the one who took and established his/her own freedom without "permission"?

One form of reparations we can collectively apply is not paying taxes. Instead of being given anything, we can collectively as a people not give them anything. Everyone has a choice at the end of the day.

Another form of reparations we can give ourselves is by creating our own economy, value, trade, and monetary systems.
 
Jews got reparations and a COUNTRY made out of somebody else's country for something that happened within the last 100 years and yet we still get nothing

The only problem I see with giving black people reparations is that if they have us any kind of fair monetary settlement, the amount would bankrupt the country and they would NEVER give us businesses because that's multi generational wealth
 
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.
 
bgoat;8970210 said:
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.

Co sign this...I thought like that until I actually realized everybody else got them except for us

Why the fuck can't we...and they got the budget for it, don't believe the hype
 
R.D.;8970253 said:
bgoat;8970210 said:
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.

Co sign this...I thought like that until I actually realized everybody else got them except for us

Why the fuck can't we...and they got the budget for it, don't believe the hype

They try to make you sound crazy for even bringing up reparations in hoping that it will discourage the thought of even being paid what is owed.

Indians and Jews get money every year, and white folks have figure out the loophole on how to get the Indian money.
 
bgoat;8970282 said:
R.D.;8970253 said:
bgoat;8970210 said:
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.

Co sign this...I thought like that until I actually realized everybody else got them except for us

Why the fuck can't we...and they got the budget for it, don't believe the hype

They try to make you sound crazy for even bringing up reparations in hoping that it will discourage the thought of even being paid what is owed.

Indians and Jews get money every year, and white folks have figure out the loophole on how to get the Indian money.

People swear Indians are paid

Some of the poorest counties in the United States are on reservation land

FOH
 
Reparations is a topic of intellectual masturbation. A waste of time and energy.

On a personal level I'm not trying to cash in on my ancestors pain, the shit is macabre. I can't put a price tag on what they went through. You can't buy humanity and no amount of money changes what happened.
 
TheGOAT;8970295 said:
bgoat;8970282 said:
R.D.;8970253 said:
bgoat;8970210 said:
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.

Co sign this...I thought like that until I actually realized everybody else got them except for us

Why the fuck can't we...and they got the budget for it, don't believe the hype

They try to make you sound crazy for even bringing up reparations in hoping that it will discourage the thought of even being paid what is owed.

Indians and Jews get money every year, and white folks have figure out the loophole on how to get the Indian money.

People swear Indians are paid

Some of the poorest counties in the United States are on reservation land

FOH

They got more than we've ever seen.
 
bgoat;8970411 said:
TheGOAT;8970295 said:
bgoat;8970282 said:
R.D.;8970253 said:
bgoat;8970210 said:
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.

Co sign this...I thought like that until I actually realized everybody else got them except for us

Why the fuck can't we...and they got the budget for it, don't believe the hype

They try to make you sound crazy for even bringing up reparations in hoping that it will discourage the thought of even being paid what is owed.

Indians and Jews get money every year, and white folks have figure out the loophole on how to get the Indian money.

People swear Indians are paid

Some of the poorest counties in the United States are on reservation land

FOH

They got more than we've ever seen.

They also got it worse.

Culture, language, land decimated

The entire race on the verge of extinction

And in return some tribes got reservation land.

Not much of a tradeoff
 
TheGOAT;8970422 said:
bgoat;8970411 said:
TheGOAT;8970295 said:
bgoat;8970282 said:
R.D.;8970253 said:
bgoat;8970210 said:
fuc_i_look_like;8970199 said:
TheGOAT;8968857 said:
Its never gonna happen. Lets be real here

Pretty much. These types of conversation are a waste of time

That's why we will never get it. They want us to give up trying. These bastards have paid everybody n their grandma while enjoying the fruits of our labor. We need to keep the pressure on.

Co sign this...I thought like that until I actually realized everybody else got them except for us

Why the fuck can't we...and they got the budget for it, don't believe the hype

They try to make you sound crazy for even bringing up reparations in hoping that it will discourage the thought of even being paid what is owed.

Indians and Jews get money every year, and white folks have figure out the loophole on how to get the Indian money.

People swear Indians are paid

Some of the poorest counties in the United States are on reservation land

FOH

They got more than we've ever seen.

They also got it worse.

Culture, language, land decimated

The entire race on the verge of extinction

And in return some tribes got reservation land.

Not much of a tradeoff

Sound a lot like our plight, and still got more than what we've ever seen.
 

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