AndStep, Explain this.

[And Step]

I heard you multiple times in threads talk about DoUwant2go2heaven's belief in the bible. You said things like "C'Mon you believe in talking snakes and burning bushes that talk"

Now upon going back over the Quran, I realized it too has talking creatures in it. Soloman talks to Ants, Birds, and Jinns.

What makes your book any better when it comes to talking animals?

Or do I got it wrong and you don't take it literal and therefore get at DoU because he really thinks the snake and bush were talking?

Correction. You heard me talking to DoU want about him talking about other people's way out beliefs, while the book he believes in has some way out stuff in it if not properly understood.

Correction No.2 - I use the Bible myself, I believe it is full of wisdom.

Correction No.3 - The Quran has talking ants and birds? Not exactly. What it says is people have been taught the speech(communication) of birds. All animals have forms of communication from birds to ants. But that is not what it is addressing. That is why it says that some verses are decisive and some are allegorical. The term i assume you are referring to is "mantiq". Arabic just like Hebrew and other Semitic languages are multi layered and can have different meanings and use euphemisms from time to time. The word "mantiq" is from the root "nutq" which signifies elevated speech. This is a metaphor for skilled, intelligent, articulate people. Wise men can summon the best of people around them even though themselves may not be proficient in certain fields. Henry Ford was like that. Solomon was like that.

Naml does not mean ants, or the valley of the ants. Naml was actually the name of a tribe. Namlah means the eggs of ant . It is from the same root as Namil which means a clever man.

Jinns are not to me creatures like birds or ants. They are beings with fiery dispositions. Underdeveloped human beings who can not control their faculties. emotional people if you will. This is why the Jinn comes before the man. Man has to grow and develop to control his emotions. There are stages in Man's development. Jinn being one of them. Not some fireball running around causing havoc, but a real live human being who hasn't learn to control his desires and emotions so they don't become self destructive.

 

[melanated khemist]

good info And Step

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Correction. You heard me talking to DoU want about him talking about other people's way out beliefs, while the book he believes in has some way out stuff in it if not properly understood.

So pretty much what I said he literally believes those things happened.

Correction No.2 - I use the Bible myself, I believe it is full of wisdom.

It is, problem for me is it's also full of negative things and it's writing are misused from it's original intent.

Correction No.3 - The Quran has talking ants and birds? Not exactly. What it says is people have been taught the speech(communication) of birds. All animals have forms of communication from birds to ants. But that is not what it is addressing. That is why it says that some verses are decisive and some are allegorical. The term i assume you are referring to is "mantiq". Arabic just like Hebrew and other Semitic languages are multi layered and can have different meanings and use euphemisms from time to time. The word "mantiq" is from the root "nutq" which signifies elevated speech. This is a metaphor for skilled, intelligent, articulate people. Wise men can summon the best of people around them even though themselves may not be proficient in certain fields. Henry Ford was like that. Solomon was like that.

It says that Soloman had conversations with Ants and Birds. I'd also like to see some links or something backing up your arabic. Not saying your wrong I may have mis-educated myself, but I'd like to see something proving I did.
I learned a good bit of my Arabic from myself but was taught some. Mantiq does not mean nutq. Nutq means spoke, I never recall seeing or reading anything more associated that symbolized a higher more conscious way of speaking. Mantiq means multiple things but on the same front. Things like Logic, reasoning, rationalizing, etc... I never seen anything with it being associated to nutq.

Naml does not mean ants, or the valley of the ants. Naml was actually the name of a tribe. Namlah means the eggs of ant . It is from the same root as Namil which means a clever man.

These words I was taught. Naml means Ant, singular, only one. Namil doesn't mean clever man but Ants, as in multiple or group of them. Naml you could be right I've never seen it spelled that way.
If your right again please post a link or two proving it.

Jinns are not to me creatures like birds or ants. They are beings with fiery dispositions. Underdeveloped human beings who can not control their faculties. emotional people if you will. This is why the Jinn comes before the man. Man has to grow and develop to control his emotions. There are stages in Man's development. Jinn being one of them. Not some fireball running around causing havoc, but a real live human being who hasn't learn to control his desires and emotions so they don't become self destructive.

This I agree with somewhat, to me the best description of Jinns in modern english terms would be a genie.

 

[VIBE]

It is, problem for me is it's also full of negative things and it's writing are misused from it's original intent.

What's negative about it?

 

[ThaChozenWun]

What's negative about it?

Slavery, killing innocent children, telling people to stone others to death for reasons that should not be worth it. It treats women like shit, I made a thread on it when I first joined.

It takes one small thing for someone to figure out a way to manipulate it and what you end up getting is modern day Christianity. You had people verbally relay teachings for 100's of years, the minute it becomes writing and a council meets to decide on what to include and what not is the minute it becomes bullshit. It goes at that point from teaching morals and righteous living to "This is about a real god, its all 100% real, follow us and follow it or you will die now when we invade to spread the word or you will suffer in hell for eternity if we don't get you first"

 

[VIBE]

Slavery, killing innocent children, telling people to stone others to death for reasons that should not be worth it. It treats women like shit, I made a thread on it when I first joined.

It takes one small thing for someone to figure out a way to manipulate it and what you end up getting is modern day Christianity. You had people verbally relay teachings for 100's of years, the minute it becomes writing and a council meets to decide on what to include and what not is the minute it becomes bullshit. It goes at that point from teaching morals and righteous living to "This is about a real god, its all 100% real, follow us and follow it or you will die now when we invade to spread the word or you will suffer in hell for eternity if we don't get you first"

What you're talking about is interpretations. It has nothing to do with what the bible actually says. The bible speaks of things and the reader takes it and makes it something it's not really suppose to be.

Show me where in the bible where it just kills children.

The slavery was explained, it was NOT negative. It's basically like having a maid today, pay her to come to your pad, clean it do whatever. Pretty much the same concept. There were rules for that 'slavery'. Why do you just read and say "NEGATIVE!!". You know when I did that, that's all I seen? I was like, "nope, no truth all lies" LOL it's stupid logic really. If you dissect it you'll see.

Women treated like crap, show me too. Please really. Show me the reasons they were stoned to death and why you don't agree.

You love debates so I know you're up to what I'm asking...

 

[Hyde Parke]

thats the problem with written word vs actual experience, it leaves the reader up to interpret or misinterpret its meaning. There are no words when there is actual experience taking place.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

What you're talking about is interpretations. It has nothing to do with what the bible actually says. The bible speaks of things and the reader takes it and makes it something it's not really suppose to be.

Show me where in the bible where it just kills children.

The slavery was explained, it was NOT negative. It's basically like having a maid today, pay her to come to your pad, clean it do whatever. Pretty much the same concept. There were rules for that 'slavery'. Why do you just read and say "NEGATIVE!!". You know when I did that, that's all I seen? I was like, "nope, no truth all lies" LOL it's stupid logic really. If you dissect it you'll see.

Women treated like crap, show me too. Please really. Show me the reasons they were stoned to death and why you don't agree.

You love debates so I know you're up to what I'm asking...

The bible killed children for their parents problems, should you be killed for you great great grandfathers slave ownership?

Yes the bible talks about slavery, and no it aint pay and clean my house. It's actual slavery.

I'll start a debate in about an hour Ill up the thread so you dont miss it, I have to go gather some information and put a good piece together, can't come half assed on a serious discussion

 

[VIBE]

The bible killed children for their parents problems, should you be killed for you great great grandfathers slave ownership?

Yes the bible talks about slavery, and no it aint pay and clean my house. It's actual slavery.

I'll start a debate in about an hour Ill up the thread so you dont miss it, I have to go gather some information and put a good piece together, can't come half assed on a serious discussion

Sounds good then, be back on in an hour or so.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Since your a follower of the KJV I'll start with it and slavery.

First in the OT

In Leviticus it says,

"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. "And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

No where in Leviticus or any other section you like, does it say that slaves must be payed or treated fairly. In fact this clearly says you may have a slave, they are your property and they will remain your property for eternity. The only ones you are not allowed to enslave are Israelites.

I will say, the NT does lighten it's stance on slavery. However it only says treat them okay, it never says pay them, house them, etc... only to feed them. Which according to you black slavery was grand considering we got housed and fed!

One verse that strikes me is this one

Ephesians 6:5-9

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality."

This says that if you're a slave, if your treated bad to just lay back and accept it, after all both slave and owner have the same Massah in the sky who will inflict fury on those who treated you badly as a slave. Fuck out of here saying well he says treat slaves good. People should not be slaves end of story.

And it says to do gods will from the heart. I know you think the Crusades and Inquisitions weren't killing in gods name because it was Gods "will" to push christianity but to me and people with reasonable sense it is.

There are many verses that promote slavery.

In terms of women, there are also many verses saying that Women slaves are less equal than males. It's not suprising though the abuse they take throughout the bible being that males wrote it.

In Leviticus 15:19 it clearly says that during a period a woman is unclean. Okay sure, but it overblows it to the point that she shall not be touched, anything she touches shall not be touched, basically while a woman is on the rag she has to be placed in solitary confinement for a week. Cause that shit they call Unclean must spread like H1N1.

In Levi 12:2 it says if a woman gives birth to a male she is only unclean 2 days, however a female child makes her unclean 2 weeks?????? Really now, explain it to me what the difference is.

1 Tim 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Corinthians 14:34

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

It states in the bible a woman has to keep her face and head covered when speaking to god, where as men do not.

Zech 5:7

"The leaden cover was lifted, there was a woman sitting, and he (the angel) said: this is wickedness."

Woman are evil? Sounds like it says that woman is wickedness to me.

Here is a great article on women and the bible.

http://www.hwarmstrong.com/women-in-the-bible.htm

If you need more let me know Ill debate all night.

 

[VIBE]

Since your a follower of the KJV I'll start with it and slavery.

First in the OT

In Leviticus it says,

"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. "And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

No where in Leviticus or any other section you like, does it say that slaves must be payed or treated fairly. In fact this clearly says you may have a slave, they are your property and they will remain your property for eternity. The only ones you are not allowed to enslave are Israelites.

I will say, the NT does lighten it's stance on slavery. However it only says treat them okay, it never says pay them, house them, etc... only to feed them. Which according to you black slavery was grand considering we got housed and fed!

One verse that strikes me is this one

Ephesians 6:5-9

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality."

This says that if you're a slave, if your treated bad to just lay back and accept it, after all both slave and owner have the same Massah in the sky who will inflict fury on those who treated you badly as a slave. Fuck out of here saying well he says treat slaves good. People should not be slaves end of story.

And it says to do gods will from the heart. I know you think the Crusades and Inquisitions weren't killing in gods name because it was Gods "will" to push christianity but to me and people with reasonable sense it is.

There are many verses that promote slavery.

How do you know they were not paid in any way? It doesn’t say NOT to pay them. Payment could be in clothing, food, money, cattle. In any which way the “owner” please. The bible doesn’t condone the mistreatment of them. It asks them not to use these slaves as sex slaves or eye candy. What the slave does is work for the will of God, from their hearts. God had chose these people, He said they shall do this for Him from their hearts. Actually slavery in the bible = nothing wrong.

The house you live in was built pretty much by slaves. The people who built that frame slaved outside, hot or cold, to build for you. Slaves did the work so others didn’t have to. Today we call them jobs, without money, they would be considered slaves. Right? What these guys did wasn’t bad, it was good. As the slaves with the bible. What they do is good work. I don’t see the negative. I think for you what makes it negative is the fact that blacks were mistreated as slaves, which is wrong. You probably blame the bible for this, right? If so, I see why you feel this way. You gotta see though, this wasn’t it’s original point. Obviously, right?

In terms of women, there are also many verses saying that Women slaves are less equal than males. It's not suprising though the abuse they take throughout the bible being that males wrote it.

In Leviticus 15:19 it clearly says that during a period a woman is unclean. Okay sure, but it overblows it to the point that she shall not be touched, anything she touches shall not be touched, basically while a woman is on the rag she has to be placed in solitary confinement for a week. Cause that shit they call Unclean must spread like H1N1.

In Levi 12:2 it says if a woman gives birth to a male she is only unclean 2 days, however a female child makes her unclean 2 weeks?????? Really now, explain it to me what the difference is.

1 Tim 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Corinthians 14:34

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

It states in the bible a woman has to keep her face and head covered when speaking to god, where as men do not.

Zech 5:7

"The leaden cover was lifted, there was a woman sitting, and he (the angel) said: this is wickedness."

Woman are evil? Sounds like it says that woman is wickedness to me.

Here is a great article on women and the bible.

http://www.hwarmstrong.com/women-in-the-bible.htm

If you need more let me know Ill debate all night.

Because women are the culprit of sin. How? Eve took the fruit also, Sexual sin is the biggest struggle. Women flaunt their ‘goods’ in order to achieve attention or further themselves. A poll was taken some time back that asked: Do you use your looks/sexuality to further yourself in your work place? Something of that nature. The poll came out to about 70-80% saying yes. God doesn’t approve of that.

Women are prostitutes and strippers and porn stars. Men? Yes. Ratio though? Women win. Sexual sin here, women cause men to sin. Men shouldn’t fall for it, but we sure do. Our flesh is weak.

Women are very weak, Eve proved that one. They foolishly believe little things.

Eve took that fruit when she was told it was forbidden otherwise she would die. Same was told to Adam. Who ate it first? Eve, punishment? Pregnancy/period. Which is why a period is frowned upon, it’s a reminder of Eve. She betrayed the forbidden rule. She also caused Adam to sin.

You say women are treated unfairly?


3. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4. They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6. This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].
7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9. And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Fairness. He doesn’t condemn her. He tells her to “sin no more”. If treated unfairly why not allow the stoning?

Also, this…

"The leaden cover was lifted, there was a woman sitting, and he (the angel) said: this is wickedness."

Zech 5?

3. Then said he unto me, This [is] the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off [as] on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off [as] on that side according to it.
4. I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
5. Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what [is] this that goeth forth.
6. And I said, What [is] it? And he said, This [is] an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This [is] their resemblance through all the earth.
7. And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this [is] a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.
8. And he said, This [is] wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

This place was cursed with wickedness, of thieves and people who cursed. The woman was hiding. She was found and banished. As with all the people were, just she happened to be hiding.

Is it unfair though? She has committed a sin that isn’t allowed. Correct me if I’m wrong though.

Now, don’t get me wrong. NOT ALL women are like this. Due to Eve though, this is how it is.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

the other thing muslims dont like to talk about is the fact that Muhammad had like 800 men beheaded and then he enslaved all their wives and kids LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

 

[And Step]

the other thing muslims dont like to talk about is the fact that Muhammad had like 800 men beheaded and then he enslaved all their wives and kids LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

This is a perfect example of ghetto scholarship or white revisionist privilege. That is where if your black, you reserve the right to fill in the blanks with shit that don't add up if it suits your ego or agenda or because your white you reserve the right to tell the story how you see fit regardless of silly things like facts, context, or truth.

To say that Muhammad beheaded 800 men without putting the story in historical context is like saying The State of Milwaukee executed Jeffrey Dahmer and they don't want to talk about it.

The Qurazaih were a Jewish Tribe who formed an alliance with Muhammad during a time of war against the Koreish, who were persecuting Muhammad and his small contingent at that time. Well when the Koreish attacked not only did the Qurazaih not assist them, some of them they helped the Koreish attack Muhammad and his men and some returned back to their fortresses refusing to help, after giving their word.

Here is the wild part and the unveiling of the lie you told. Muhammad didn't sentence them.They could have escaped with exile, had they submitted to the sentence of Muhammad. They however wanted another man to do it. Sa'd the son of Mu' adh. An aid who was related to them but with Muhammad and he said they should
be punished according to their own law. Their own law said they should be put to death for what they did. Deuteuronomy Chapter 20 verse 12-14. If you going to claim religion you should at least keep it 100 son.

This is actually mentioned in your wikipedia link. But I guess you didn't take the time to read because you must have thought that the entry was going to conform to what you thought it should be, LOL.

Another interesting side not. All these people involved were Arabs.

Treason in most nations is treated seriously, my man.

 

[And Step]

What you're talking about is interpretations. It has nothing to do with what the bible actually says. The bible speaks of things and the reader takes it and makes it something it's not really suppose to be.

Show me where in the bible where it just kills children.

The slavery was explained, it was NOT negative. It's basically like having a maid today, pay her to come to your pad, clean it do whatever. Pretty much the same concept. There were rules for that 'slavery'. Why do you just read and say "NEGATIVE!!". You know when I did that, that's all I seen? I was like, "nope, no truth all lies" LOL it's stupid logic really. If you dissect it you'll see.

Uh, no. Saul was commanded to kill men, woman, and children. This is just one instance. And slavery in the Bible, was not described like hired help. It was indentured, chattel slavery where you could actually pass on the children of your slaves to your descendants as inheritance. This is what the slavemasters used to justify their treatment of blacks for centuries. Granted in some instances it was to pay off debt, and prisoner of war type deals like in Africa and Asian history, but in a lot of cases it is not.

Read the book, homey. And then study the history of it and it's caretakers. Your at a disadvantage when your adversary knows your book better than you.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

How do you know they were not paid in any way? It doesn’t say NOT to pay them. Payment could be in clothing, food, money, cattle. In any which way the “owner” please. The bible doesn’t condone the mistreatment of them. It asks them not to use these slaves as sex slaves or eye candy. What the slave does is work for the will of God, from their hearts. God had chose these people, He said they shall do this for Him from their hearts. Actually slavery in the bible = nothing wrong.

Typical christian response. I know you claim not to be christian, but the "PROVE THAT HE/IT'S NOT" is typical. There is no way to prove to you that it was because you have your mind set on it wasn't. Look through the bible, it never says anything about paying them and it continuously points toward chattel slavery as AndStep pointed out. It leans toward the unwilling and abusive side. Again you bring up food or housing. Slaves in America we're fed, housed, clothed, and in rare cases eventually treated as part of the owners family. Do you consider that fine and dandy? Was the US Slavery Era okay because they were housed and fed? People in the bible were forced to be slaves, I cannot get down with that. And the only part your speaking of is the NT verse, which like I said, tried to promote slavery as something okay and it speaks mainly on christian slavesmanship where as the OT is really about it's slavery.

1.The house you live in was built pretty much by slaves. 2.The people who built that frame slaved outside, hot or cold, to build for you. Slaves did the work so others didn’t have to. Today we call them jobs, 3.without money, they would be considered slaves. Right? What these guys did wasn’t bad, it was good. As the slaves with the bible. What they do is good work. I don’t see the negative. 4. I think for you what makes it negative is the fact that blacks were mistreated as slaves, which is wrong. You probably blame the bible for this, right? If so, I see why you feel this way. You gotta see though, this wasn’t it’s original point. Obviously, right?

1. My current house was built by a company that I paid to built it.
2. They willingly built my house in exchange for currency on their own time without me telling them or making them do it. Slaves don't do work willingly.
3. No, because without pay they wouldn't work and would not be forced to for nothing, the bible has people unwillingly being slaves, it tells you that slaves are your property.
4. I think you fail to see the comparison. You say blacks we're mistreated, but every reason you gave as to why the bible slaves were cool also goes toward Afrcan-European slave trades.

Because women are the culprit of sin. How? Eve took the fruit also, Sexual sin is the biggest struggle. Women flaunt their ‘goods’ in order to achieve attention or further themselves. A poll was taken some time back that asked: Do you use your looks/sexuality to further yourself in your work place? Something of that nature. The poll came out to about 70-80% saying yes. God doesn’t approve of that.

So it's okay for women to be punished by god because he has not gave men the ability to resist some fine pussy?

Women are prostitutes and strippers and porn stars. Men? Yes. Ratio though? Women win. Sexual sin here, women cause men to sin. Men shouldn’t fall for it, but we sure do. Our flesh is weak.

So because more women are in the porn industry or stripping they are worst than men. The things men do outside of porn or stripclubs doesn't apply? We were born naked, we are natural in the nude. Stripclubs women are in their natural suit, so why is it a sin? They get naked, we men and sometimes other women pay to see it. That should be on our shoulders not theirs. Take out stripclubs and porn and men will just find another way to see women naked at the drop of a few dollars.

Women are very weak, Eve proved that one. They foolishly believe little things.

Sexist? Men are equally as weak, not physically but mentally yes. We just have a different way of showing it.

Eve took that fruit when she was told it was forbidden otherwise she would die. Same was told to Adam. Who ate it first? Eve, punishment? Pregnancy/period. Which is why a period is frowned upon, it’s a reminder of Eve. She betrayed the forbidden rule. She also caused Adam to sin.

Eve ate it first cause Adam grabbed the bitch by her nappy ass head and made her. He ain't trying to eat that shit and die first. You know there's a better explanation now for why a menstrual cycle occurs now though right? Or that world is not flat? Or that the horizon isnt the edge of Earth?

You say women are treated unfairly? & Following verses.

Because what you quoted is from the NT, it tries to relay a more peaceful tone. It still degrades women, but it tries not to make it all bad.

And yup, they are treated unfairly now and we're treated 100 times worst back then. Like I said, it's not suprising with the slavery and women degrading. The book was written by men, in a time when women were only for cooking, cleaning, sewing, and fucking, and during a period in which slavery wasn't looked badly upon.

Zech 5?

3. Then said he unto me, This [is] the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off [as] on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off [as] on that side according to it.
4. I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
5. Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what [is] this that goeth forth.
6. And I said, What [is] it? And he said, This [is] an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This [is] their resemblance through all the earth.
7. And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this [is] a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.
8. And he said, This [is] wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

This place was cursed with wickedness, of thieves and people who cursed. The woman was hiding. She was found and banished. As with all the people were, just she happened to be hiding.

Is it unfair though? She has committed a sin that isn’t allowed. Correct me if I’m wrong though.

Now, don’t get me wrong. NOT ALL women are like this. Due to Eve though, this is how it is.

Maybe it's a case of misinterpretation, I see it as him saying the female is wickedness.

And why should all women be punished for Eve's actions? Like I said should you suffer for your ancestors abuse of slaves? Should you live your life as a slave to a African, Asian, or Native American family because of what transpired in the past?
Same concept of what's being applied in the bible.

 

[VIBE]

Typical christian response. I know you claim not to be christian, but the "PROVE THAT HE/IT'S NOT" is typical. There is no way to prove to you that it was because you have your mind set on it wasn't. Look through the bible, it never says anything about paying them and it continuously points toward chattel slavery as AndStep pointed out. It leans toward the unwilling and abusive side. Again you bring up food or housing. Slaves in America we're fed, housed, clothed, and in rare cases eventually treated as part of the owners family. Do you consider that fine and dandy? Was the US Slavery Era okay because they were housed and fed? People in the bible were forced to be slaves, I cannot get down with that. And the only part your speaking of is the NT verse, which like I said, tried to promote slavery as something okay and it speaks mainly on christian slavesmanship where as the OT is really about it's slavery.

Prove that He/It's not? Where are you getting this?

There is nothing wrong with slavery in the bible as it was suppose to be. God gave orders as to how to treat your slave and how NOT to use your slave. You think because it's a 'forever' thing it's horrible? If God says that they must do this from their heart for the will of God, what do you think that means. Goodness. Kindness. Maybe some didn't like it, tried to flee, didn't do things. Sure. Everyone is like that. I'm sure though if God is saying these things then these 'slaves' knew and did their work from the heart. LATER in life though it was misused and misunderstood and changed and used and abused. I don't stand for that kind of mistreatment.

1. My current house was built by a company that I paid to built it.
2. They willingly built my house in exchange for currency on their own time without me telling them or making them do it. Slaves don't do work willingly.
3. No, because without pay they wouldn't work and would not be forced to for nothing, the bible has people unwillingly being slaves, it tells you that slaves are your property.
4. I think you fail to see the comparison. You say blacks we're mistreated, but every reason you gave as to why the bible slaves were cool also goes toward Afrcan-European slave trades.

You really think if we didn't have money, they wouldn't have to work? Someone would've came about and found some type of slavery and 'forced' them to build these house, oh that's a guarantee. So without pay they would work, 'forced' work yes but houses would've gotten built anyway. Listen, blacks were misused and mistreated that is no debate. Where in the bible does it condone that though? Where does it say you must be racist and abusive towards your slave? You see, from the bible, that it was used for good. When you have something that says, "but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart" It asks nothing bad. I don't get where you think it's so bad. If they were used for sex, abusive, anything bad then it wouldn't be good. God doesn't do things like that. No matter how much you try to point to God and say how horrible he is all in all he isn't.

So it's okay for women to be punished by god because he has not gave men the ability to resist some fine pussy?

Sure, if they use it in that way. The bible doesn't condone prostitution, sex out of marriage or using yourself in that way to further yourself. It tells you that it's not allowed. Women still do. Look, Eve who was a woman was the first sinner ever. She ate from the forbidden tree first, she sinned first. Adam, stupidly enough ate it 2nd.

So because more women are in the porn industry or stripping they are worst than men. The things men do outside of porn or stripclubs doesn't apply? We were born naked, we are natural in the nude. Stripclubs women are in their natural suit, so why is it a sin? They get naked, we men and sometimes other women pay to see it. That should be on our shoulders not theirs. Take out stripclubs and porn and men will just find another way to see women naked at the drop of a few dollars.

Like I said, the bible isn't down with this period. Sure, they were naked but they ate from the tree that was forbidden and guess what! They saw that they were naked. When you see a naked person, in our case, naked females what happens? Does your eyes stay on her face and you talk to her or whatever? Nope. Your eyes wander, your mind wanders. The bible FORBIDS that. Adultery, plain and simple. Strippers use their bodies to earn money, the bible forbids that.

Sexist? Men are equally as weak, not physically but mentally yes. We just have a different way of showing it.

Women are more weak mentally than we are. You have your strong minded women out there but weak minded women are in bigger numbers. Don't you hear about the abuse? Weak minded. They stay, for what? My mother is/was a very weak minded person.

Eve ate it first cause Adam grabbed the bitch by her nappy ass head and made her. He ain't trying to eat that shit and die first. You know there's a better explanation now for why a menstrual cycle occurs now though right? Or that world is not flat? Or that the horizon isnt the edge of Earth?

Oh, never knew Adam did that. SMH.

Yes, I know there's an explanation for everything scientifically. Does that mean it wasn't God though? You guys think God creates these things and there isn't some type of order or explanation to how it will work. Really, you guys do. You guys say things like this, "oh well there's an explanation". Uh, so? Who said there wasn't? God never stated no one would figure how things work and were. I never understood the, "explanation/science" argument to try to disprove the bible.

Because what you quoted is from the NT, it tries to relay a more peaceful tone. It still degrades women, but it tries not to make it all bad.

Oh, I see. Show me a verse where they're treated really bad then. That's what I asked, I showed you that females are treated fair. If she wasn't, Jesus would've accused her and had her stoned. Fact, she wasn't. Fact, he let her go. Fact, he told her to sin no more. Jesus has heart, men don't. You think that's a mistreatment then look at today. Just look. I don't have to explain.

And yup, they are treated unfairly now and we're treated 100 times worst back then. Like I said, it's not suprising with the slavery and women degrading. The book was written by men, in a time when women were only for cooking, cleaning, sewing, and fucking, and during a period in which slavery wasn't looked badly upon.

Women today are treated unfairly as well. They're degraded as well. No? Look at hip hop. Look at the scandals on tv. Look at the men who are caught with a women in their basement for years. The same men today as then. Always will be. But the bible itself cannot condone this. Are they frowned upon? Sure. Eve sinned first, she became the culprit for sin and allowed Adam to sin.

Maybe it's a case of misinterpretation, I see it as him saying the female is wickedness.

And why should all women be punished for Eve's actions? Like I said should you suffer for your ancestors abuse of slaves? Should you live your life as a slave to a African, Asian, or Native American family because of what transpired in the past?
Same concept of what's being applied in the bible.

The serpent, ONE serpent lied to Eve. This serpent was a snake, now all snakes are on their bellies. All snakes were 'cursed'

All women are punished due to Eve, why, it's Gods mind bro. I cannot begin to explain why. I gave you my thoughts, that's as much as I can really give. God works differently than humans do.

Just give me that verse I was asking for ^^ and lets move on, only so much you can say about a subject. Next negative thing in the bible?

Zechariah 5
The Flying Scroll
1 I looked again—and there before me was a flying scroll!

2 He asked me, "What do you see?"
I answered, "I see a flying scroll, thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide. [a] "

3 And he said to me, "This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4 The LORD Almighty declares, 'I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of him who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in his house and destroy it, both its timbers and its stones.' "
The Woman in a Basket
5 Then the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, "Look up and see what this is that is appearing."

6 I asked, "What is it?"
He replied, "It is a measuring basket. " And he added, "This is the iniquity [c] of the people throughout the land."

7 Then the cover of lead was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman! 8 He said, "This is wickedness," and he pushed her back into the basket and pushed the lead cover down over its mouth.

9 Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth.

10 "Where are they taking the basket?" I asked the angel who was speaking to me.

11 He replied, "To the country of Babylonia [d] to build a house for it. When it is ready, the basket will be set there in its place."

 

[VIBE]

You getting back to me on this?

 

[ThaChozenWun]

You getting back to me on this?

Yea I didn't even realize you posted again. Let me read over it then get back to this I got caught up in the other discussion

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Anytime someone says, prove god exists, all you people come up with is "Prove he doesn't", in your case here, you said "Prove it doesn't". You said the bible means slaves who get paid, it says nowhere of them being paid. Now how can I prove it? Just that, its saying nowhere they were paid for their actions and it points toward them being slaves.

http://www.learnthebible.org/B02C021.htm#V2There is nothing wrong with slavery in the bible as it was suppose to be. God gave orders as to how to treat your slave and how NOT to use your slave. You think because it's a 'forever' thing it's horrible? If Goad says that they must do this from their heart for the will of God, what do you think that means. Goodness. Kindness. Maybe some didn't like it, tried to flee, didn't do things. Sure. Everyone is like that. I'm sure though if God is saying these things then these 'slaves' knew and did their work from the heart. LATER in life though it was misused and misunderstood and changed and used and abused. I don't stand for that kind of mistreatment.

Making people work is something wrong. Forcing the children of slaves to remain slaves once their parents are free is wrong.

Exodus 21:2-6
"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him forever."

By buying they are not saying, pay a slave to serve you. They are speaking of paying a slave trader for one of their slaves, you know the guys who capture people then sell them into slavery? A slave is to only serve 7 years, again not because of god, but because after 7 years the slave is tired and worn down and a new one is needed. For those that came in on their own, it doesnt mean, "Heya Boss let me be your slave". That means someone who came to the city on free will and was turned into a slve or someone who's actions forced him into it as punishment. Then it says if someone is given a wife by their owner (again something wrong, during black slavery this was called selective breeding), that the wife and children don't get to leave but must remain slaves. But you are given the option to leave without your family, or ask to remain a slave to be with them in which case he will have to go through a process of council decisions, and have a tag pierced into his earlobe to label him as so n so's property.

How is this not slavery again?

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

If a man strikes and kills his slave, he will be punished. This punishment is not god smiting people, it is losing your source of free work and losing your money.

You really think if we didn't have money, they wouldn't have to work? Someone would've came about and found some type of slavery and 'forced' them to build these house, oh that's a guarantee. So without pay they would work, 'forced' work yes but houses would've gotten built anyway. Listen, blacks were misused and mistreated that is no debate. Where in the bible does it condone that though? .............. So on fuck word limits

If we didn't have money another form of payment would be created, whether it be food, land, animals whatever. If they received nothing no they would not go work for you. If they have nothing why would they spend hours working for you that could rather be spent finding themselves food or supplying themselves shelter? Your first few sentences make no sense. I said people who work for nothing are forced into it because they will not work for nothing, so what are arguing with?

When the bible was written there was no race. Jesus and Moses characters are portrayed as black men, around the time the OT was written its more than likely dark skinned people who wrote it. Racism isnt what it is now until American slavery.

And the last part the verse your speaking of is for Christian slaves only. If it is not a slave who follows that religion then the rules don't apply.

Sure, if they use it in that way. The bible doesn't condone prostitution, sex out of marriage or using yourself in that way to further yourself. It tells you that it's not allowed. WomeiTn still do. Look, Eve who was a woman was the first sinner ever. She ate from the forbidden tree first, she sinned first. Adam, stupidly enough ate it 2nd.

If two men rape a women does it matter who did it first? They both did it, willingly, so why is the first treated worst than the second?

Like I said, the bible isn't down with this period. Sure, they were naked but .....

Where does the bible say one cannot obtain currency or gifts through the showing of their body? Prostitution yes but strippers or dancers no. Adultery has nothing to do with strippers. If you consider a married man watchin a girl dance topless as adultery fine, but even without a stripper the man will find enjoyment elsewhere and therefore the stripper is not liable for the offense.

Women are more weak mentally than we are

SMH fuck out of here with this. Men are constantly on a trip about our bodies, our manliness, our actions, how other perceive us etc...
It is not weak minded as much as it is fear.

Oh, never knew Adam did that. SMH.

Yes, I know there's an explanation for everything scientifically. Does that mean it wasn't God though? You guys think God creates these things and there isn't some type of order or explanation to how it will work. Really, you guys do. You guys say things like this, "oh well there's an explanation". Uh, so? Who said there wasn't? God never stated no one would figure how things work and were. I never understood the, "explanation/science" argument to try to disprove the bible.

Word Adam was a pimp he aint take no bitches shit for nothin.

Now back to seriousness, it's because the people who wrote the bible used God as an excuse for how things worked. They had no idea how the menstrual cycle worked so they created a story for it. END OF STORY.

But since you want a better explanation because reality isn't enough. Lets use a lightbulb.
If someone created a lightbulb, and no one knew how it worked. Once the light came on they would all be in shock. If they didn't have the ability to figure it out, they would attribute it to magic or God in your case. Now later on people discover how it all worked and they show the inner working of electric and conductivity and all. It will no longer be god who made the light, however you have a few stubborn people who will say. Sure this explains how the light gets to the bulb, but its still god making the light. Ummm no, it's copper, electric, etc..

Oh, I see. Show me a verse where they're treated really bad then. That's what I asked, I showed you that females are treated fair. If she wasn't, Jesus would've accused her and had her stoned. Fact, she wasn't. Fact, he let her go. Fact, he told her to sin no more. Jesus has heart, men don't. You think that's a mistreatment then look at today. Just look. I don't have to explain.

That link I posted covers it well. I don't want to make two posts so I'll drop more links explaining it all.
http://www.unholylegacy.woerlee.org/discrimination-of-women.php
Covers it great

Explains how the bible uses women wrongly and places a tag on them saying they are basically as deceiving whores http://www.alabaster-jars.com/biblewomen-a.html

The stuff you speak about Divorce is not for good. It says clearly people shouldn't divorce because it causes violence. Nothing more, if you have a peaceful divorce then it would not be a sin.

In Roman 3:22-24 I think it says both women and mens sins are treated as equal, then why are women being punished more? You yourself have shown this evidence already and played it off as "Well she did eat the apple first" before you ask for the evidence go read your own quotes.

Women today are treated unfairly as well. They're degraded as well. No? Look at hip hop. Look at the scandals on tv. Look at the men who are caught with a women in their basement for years. The same men today as then. Always will be. But the bible itself cannot condone this. Are they frowned upon? Sure. Eve sinned first, she became the culprit for sin and allowed Adam to sin.
The serpent, ONE serpent lied to Eve. This serpent was a snake, now all snakes are on their bellies. All snakes were 'cursed'

Exactly most men today disrespect women so why is it so hard to understand thats why the bible and Quran and such do also? Man wrote it, man is alive now, same things in plain sight. Again god being unequal and judging, because of one snakes actions all snakes whether innocent or not must suffer, same as Egyptian children and women.

Just give me that verse I was asking for ^^ and lets move on, only so much you can say about a subject. Next negative thing in the bible?

I gave you multiple verses to show it, the links will give you more. If that isn't enough I could post 50 more. But after 10-15 if you still can't understand the shit I posted then it's a lost cause.

 

[And Step]

I dont take too kindly to hijacking a thread that was directed at me.