Israelites;1668829 said:
@Solid,
Show me where in scripture that the tribulation has happened? I didn't even use the prophets to speak on the same future event that hasn't taken place as of yet.
Matthew 24 is one chapter premillenialist doctrine adherents pull & twist scriptures from. That's why i'll go back to
Matthew 24 to make my point, and also because we both agree the destruction of Jerusalem already took place.
Matthew, chapter 24 starting at verse 1, IN CONTEXT:
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Matthew 24:1-3)
1. Jesus just finished telling the disciples the
temple buildings would all be torn down. 2. The disciples then asked Jesus
three questions directly in response to what He told them would happen to the temple buildings (destruction of Jerusalem). 3. You can tell the disciples probably thought they was gonna get one answer, but Jesus gave
two different answers - Jesus rarely answered people questions according to what
they thought they was asking.
going back to the question:
'Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming'
'these things' refers to what Jesus in verse2 just told them would happen to the temple buildings. In other words,
when Jerusalem would fall.
That's key to understanding that, in the immediate context, what's said in the following verses applies directly to the destruction of Jerusalem:
And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. “At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. “Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. “But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:4-14)
i'll stop there to make this point...amongst the list of all the things Jesus said would happen before Jerusalem falls ('the end' in v14 refers to the end of Jerusalem), notice also in verse 14 Jesus included that:
The gospel would be preached to the whole world.
Do you not believe that commandment was fulfilled?
"And He said to them, "
Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." ... And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen" (Mark 16:15, 20).
""If indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of
the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister" (Colossians 1:23).
"But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
"Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world"" (Romans 10:18).
The famines and earthquakes, the tribulation, the killing of the apostles, false prophets, and the gospel being preached in the whole world all happened before the destruction of Jerusalem just like Jesus said. You can check the writings of some Historians (which i'll provide on request) to verify some of the events...even some of the events are seen coming to pass in Acts.
Now Saul was consenting to his death. At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. (Acts 8:1)
This is part of the tribulation Jesus was talking about that would come before the destruction of Jerusalem...
what do the think the 'present distress' spoken by Paul refers to:
I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress— that it is good for a man to remain as he is: (I Corinthians 7:26)
Anyways, going back to the text in
Matthew 24:4-14, all the way up to verse 35 is dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus used figurative language to describe certain events that would need to take place in that generation before the end came. If you understand that, then you'll see there's nothing else to look out for concerning the tribulation period spoken of there. But i know that is quite contrary to premillenialist theory regarding the second coming of Christ.
