lion_heart
New member
Bcotton5;5684194 said:
How this nigga suppose to be the black Batman and he goes out like that?
How this nigga suppose to be the black Batman and he goes out like that?
requiem v2.0
New member
The one thing I don't like about this is that it involves time travel. I'm hoping Bendis does something interesting with it. When you hear about all these dead heroes you just know that this whole thing will be wiped clean. How are you going to have a F4 comics without Reed, a She Hulk comics without her, or even have Cage and Jessica be dead? Nope, they are all going to come back, so the only question is, who's going to die and stay dead?
ShencotheMC
New member
Bcotton5;5684194 said:
You ain't see him land on his neck sideways?
DrMindbender122
New member
The interesting turn of events will take place now that Wolverine decided to fuck up the space/time continuum by going back and attempting to assassinate Dr Pym.
That's where I'm thinking this thing will get good. We'll see Wolverine battle a version of himself. We'll see Cable (who's wearing a Captain Murica uniform for some reason) and a one eyed older version of Cyclops enter in the fray.
Correction: Maybe that old fucker in this pic actually is Cap.
In the end, this can't be any worse than AvX, now can it?
Sidenote: Y'all know Marvel is dropping a 4-part "What If" version of AvX in either the end of April or the beginning of May?
Should be interesting.
That's where I'm thinking this thing will get good. We'll see Wolverine battle a version of himself. We'll see Cable (who's wearing a Captain Murica uniform for some reason) and a one eyed older version of Cyclops enter in the fray.
Correction: Maybe that old fucker in this pic actually is Cap.
In the end, this can't be any worse than AvX, now can it?
Sidenote: Y'all know Marvel is dropping a 4-part "What If" version of AvX in either the end of April or the beginning of May?
Should be interesting.
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I just read a article on newsarama and it looks it's possible that they could bring all or most of the heroes from the past into the present like they did in all new X-men. So it's possible I guess for Black Panther, Thor etc.. to stay dead but their past selves will come and live in the present?
ShencotheMC
New member
indyman87;5689134 said:
*Sigh* Really Marvel? Really?
ShencotheMC
New member
This event been wack, but like you said Mindbender, maybe wolverine going back to murk pym could bring this up. Fury was funny as hell last issue
CottonCitySlim
New member
its not even 616, this just like AoA but for the avengers.
nicky the don
New member
They keep saying it's not an alt universe, but I don't see how not. Like y'all have said, can't see them leaving some of the most popular heroes dead. But, shouldn't Thor be reborn, saying he's from Asgard?
Also, Pym is part of the next new Avengers' title, Avengers A.I..
Also, Pym is part of the next new Avengers' title, Avengers A.I..
smittysmith
New member
been kinda weak thus far....
nicky the don
New member
Ok, I didn't see that coming. Saying it's only 3 issues left, I wanna see how they tie this up.
lion_heart
New member
Anyone know how Pym didn't know who Wolverine was?
CottonCitySlim
New member
Under the Spoiler is all the changes to 616 after this storyline from the mouth of Bendis. Read if you want to find out
http://brianmichaelbendis.tumblr.com...deas-as-to-how
EVENTS POTENTIALLY UNDONE BY HANK PYM’S DEATH (and resulting ripple effects)
- Creation of Ultron
- No Vision
- No marriage to Scarlet Witch/Immortus plan to prevent her from breeding possibly derailed
- No birth of children (Speed & Wiccan of Young Avengers)
- No undoing of their children, which Immortus engineered in part to ensure Scarlet Witch’s mental instability and thus pliability
– Mephisto and Master Pandemonium affected
- No Leonia, NJ-based events (Vision and Scarlet Witch maxi-series)
- No opportunity for Crystal to meet and have affair with Norman Webster
- No divorce from Quicksilver
- No defeating Salem’s Seven
– they conquer the witch town of New Salem, and we have an entire town of evil black mages working against humanity
– Does not form West Coast Avengers
- No Scarlet Witch insanity
– No Disassembled deaths of Ant-Man/Lang, Jack of Hearts, Vision destruction
– No M/M-Day/Decimation
- Hundreds of X-Men/mutant stories undone
- Grim Reaper’s Lethal Legion potentially defeat and slay Avengers (Captain America, Black Panther, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch)
- Thousands of ripple effects from those deaths
- Grim Reaper won’t later feel the need to revive his “dead” brother Wonder Man as a zombie, which means Wonder Man presumably remains dormant
- Vision not present as one of the Dead Avengers who save the living Avengers during the Chaos War.
B - No Crimson Cowl
1 - No Jarvis betrayal
C - No Jocasta
1 - Lots of battles go that bit worse without her (without her neutralizing the internal defenses, Beast doesn’t manage to get inside Red Ronin during his rampage, robot destroys the Long Island expressway during rush hour., she was instrumental in team’s first defeat of Taskmaster, Evolutionary War finale, etc.)
- No Alkhema
- No Bio-Synthezoids, War Toys, Robos
- Mockingbird not abducted by Skrulls, or at least not in the same way (her abduction by Alkhema and the team’s battle with Alkie was the cover for the Skrulls’ abduction of Mockingbird)
- No slaughter in Slorenia
- No giant Bloodwraith
- No sentient Iron Man armor
- Blacklash doesn’t die
- No Victor Mancha
- Gertrude Yorkes doesn’t die
- No role in Annihilation: Conquest
- Star-Lord’s Guardians of the Galaxy don’t form
- Deathcry doesn’t die
- Spaceknights not taken over by Phalanx
– No further devastation of Kree Empire
- Moondragon doesn’t die
– Phylla-Vell does not become Martyr
- Second major war that causes the Fault doesn’t happen - possibly negating the result of War of Kings and the Cancerverse’s attempted infestation of the universe, further negating Thanos’ resurrection and Nova (Rider) and Star-Lord’s sacrifice
- No marriage to Jocasta
- No possession of the Intelligencia’s inert Spaceknight body
- No revival of Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch, after Mad Thinker’s usage of him against the FF
- Spitfire would not have been rejuvenated without a second dose of Human Torch blood
- Spitfire’s absence may have affected various missions by the New Invaders and MI-13
- Marriage to Janet Van Dyne
- Wasp’s chauffeur Charles Matthews never fired (events leading to same in Marvel Feature wouldn’t have happened without Hank), and Charles possibly never exposed as the Whirlwind/David Cannon (it was Pym who finally figured it out after years of Charles’ double identity going unsuspected by Hank, Jan and all the other Avengers). More than once, Whirlwind (David Cannon) has captured or defeated the Wasp, only to have Hank Pym arrive to save her or team up with her. Without Hank, it’s likely Wasp might not have escaped one of Whirlwind’s attempts.
- Bill Foster might have become Black Goliath sooner
– Become a more confident, A-list hero without being in Hank Pym’s shadow
-
EVENTS POTENTIALLY UNDONE BY HANK PYM’S DEATH (and resulting ripple effects)
- Creation of Ultron
- No Vision
- No marriage to Scarlet Witch/Immortus plan to prevent her from breeding possibly derailed
- No birth of children (Speed & Wiccan of Young Avengers)
- No undoing of their children, which Immortus engineered in part to ensure Scarlet Witch’s mental instability and thus pliability
– Mephisto and Master Pandemonium affected
- No Leonia, NJ-based events (Vision and Scarlet Witch maxi-series)
- No opportunity for Crystal to meet and have affair with Norman Webster
- No divorce from Quicksilver
- No defeating Salem’s Seven
– they conquer the witch town of New Salem, and we have an entire town of evil black mages working against humanity
– Does not form West Coast Avengers
- No Scarlet Witch insanity
– No Disassembled deaths of Ant-Man/Lang, Jack of Hearts, Vision destruction
– No M/M-Day/Decimation
- Hundreds of X-Men/mutant stories undone
- Grim Reaper’s Lethal Legion potentially defeat and slay Avengers (Captain America, Black Panther, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch)
- Thousands of ripple effects from those deaths
- Grim Reaper won’t later feel the need to revive his “dead” brother Wonder Man as a zombie, which means Wonder Man presumably remains dormant
- Vision not present as one of the Dead Avengers who save the living Avengers during the Chaos War.
B - No Crimson Cowl
1 - No Jarvis betrayal
C - No Jocasta
1 - Lots of battles go that bit worse without her (without her neutralizing the internal defenses, Beast doesn’t manage to get inside Red Ronin during his rampage, robot destroys the Long Island expressway during rush hour., she was instrumental in team’s first defeat of Taskmaster, Evolutionary War finale, etc.)
- No Alkhema
- No Bio-Synthezoids, War Toys, Robos
- Mockingbird not abducted by Skrulls, or at least not in the same way (her abduction by Alkhema and the team’s battle with Alkie was the cover for the Skrulls’ abduction of Mockingbird)
- No slaughter in Slorenia
- No giant Bloodwraith
- No sentient Iron Man armor
- Blacklash doesn’t die
- No Victor Mancha
- Gertrude Yorkes doesn’t die
- No role in Annihilation: Conquest
- Star-Lord’s Guardians of the Galaxy don’t form
- Deathcry doesn’t die
- Spaceknights not taken over by Phalanx
– No further devastation of Kree Empire
- Moondragon doesn’t die
– Phylla-Vell does not become Martyr
- Second major war that causes the Fault doesn’t happen - possibly negating the result of War of Kings and the Cancerverse’s attempted infestation of the universe, further negating Thanos’ resurrection and Nova (Rider) and Star-Lord’s sacrifice
- No marriage to Jocasta
- No possession of the Intelligencia’s inert Spaceknight body
- No revival of Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch, after Mad Thinker’s usage of him against the FF
- Spitfire would not have been rejuvenated without a second dose of Human Torch blood
- Spitfire’s absence may have affected various missions by the New Invaders and MI-13
- Marriage to Janet Van Dyne
- Wasp’s chauffeur Charles Matthews never fired (events leading to same in Marvel Feature wouldn’t have happened without Hank), and Charles possibly never exposed as the Whirlwind/David Cannon (it was Pym who finally figured it out after years of Charles’ double identity going unsuspected by Hank, Jan and all the other Avengers). More than once, Whirlwind (David Cannon) has captured or defeated the Wasp, only to have Hank Pym arrive to save her or team up with her. Without Hank, it’s likely Wasp might not have escaped one of Whirlwind’s attempts.
- Bill Foster might have become Black Goliath sooner
– Become a more confident, A-list hero without being in Hank Pym’s shadow
-
CottonCitySlim
New member
Part 2
Equipment being available for Scott Lang to steal to become Ant-Man and rescue surgeon to save his daughter’s life (Even if he still broke into Pym’s old lab and became Ant-Man, he’d have died during his first mission if Pym hadn’t been secretly tagging along and protected him a few times.)
- Cassie dies
- No Stature
- Surgeon Lang rescued, Erica Sondheim, remains imprisoned by her captor
– Not available to later implant bio-tech chip that restored crippled Tony Stark, and later saved his life when it went wrong - without her, Stark either remains crippled or dies
- Becoming Yellowjacket
- Rita de Mara does not become Yellowjacket
– Is not present in Evolutionary War finale
– Is not present in any Guardians of the Galaxy story
– No death during the Crossing
– Is not present in Chaos War to help save Avengers, others
- Joining Defenders (as YJ)
- does not rescue captured Defenders Dr. Strange, Valkyrie and Hulk from the Squadron Sinister
- Mental breakdown/imprisonment/divorce from Janet Van Dyne
- No court-martial
- Jan doesn’t have affair with Tony Stark/Iron Man while Hank was imprisoned
- Jan doesn’t become the chastened Avengers leader later on (significantly affecting Masters of Evil’s siege of Mansion and Kang Dynasty, amongst others) OR conversely, Hank’s death forces this to happen much earlier
- Preventing Egghead’s schemes
- Egghead would have forced his niece Trish Starr into his robot, destroying her individuality and body.
- Death of Egghead
A - Egghead remains with Intelligencia, possibly eliminating MODOK’s involvement - no Red Hulk/She-Hulk, World War Hulks, Hulked-Out Heroes
- Joining West Coast Avengers (which wouldn’t exist without Vision)
- No participation in Time-Lost Saga - possibly leaving WCA stranded in the past
- No creation of MODAM (AIM scientists were unable to advance SODAM’s development without Pym’s help.)
- The Cosmic Cube disaster during “Taking AIM” might have been worse, with MODOK being reactivated sooner
- No Number None (the baby MODOK who claims his mother is MODAM)
- No SILENT, no HATE, and no Nextwave: Agents of HATE
- Undoing character development leading to a more independently confident Photon, a more bloodthirsty Elsa Bloodstone and the human-hating/zombie killing Machine Man
- No dimension-crossing experiments resulting in fugitive St. Looie’s hitman from being lost in “Otherwhere”
- Relationship with Firebird/Espirita
- Relationship with Tigra
– As mentioned below, Tigra’s son would probably never be born, since the Skrull who fathered said son was posing as Pym
– Participation in stopping Vibro from destroying LA with earthquakes
- Participation in the Crossing
- Jan not mutated, dies of injuries at hands of Iron Man
- Participation in Heroes Reborn
- Counter-Earth (Franklin) native and Avengers janitor Ernest Sanger would never have become Mant, the size-changing leader of the Remnants
- Participation in Destiny War (Possible Immortus picked a different Pym from another era/reality, so things might well have still gone much as seen)
– Doesn’t double cross both sides as Yellowjacket
- Rick Jones does not get involved in final battle
- Time-Keepers survive
– No final event prompting Lilandra to sponsor Maximum Security
– Quasar does not absorb Ego
- Reality-616 destroyed by Time-Keepers
- Curing of Firestar’s radiation problem
– Leading to earlier or worse cancer/death
- Pym not available to supervise treatment and containment of Jack of Hearts’ unstable physiology
- Replacement by Skrull(s)
- Various Skrulls that replaced him not participate in Initiative/Camp Hammond
- The Skrulls would have needed another highly placed superhuman genius to replace instead of Hank Pym.
- No GI-Ant-Man suit for Eric O’Grady to steal
- O’Grady dies in Helicarrier crash, never becomes Ant-Man
– No Skrull relationship with Tigra
- William Garson never born
- Dark Reign events
- No Infinite Mansion
- No Dark Reign-era Mighty Avengers
- Amadeus Cho/Vision Jonas/Stature’s membership negated
- Chthon victorious
- Not named Scientist Supreme
- Instruction at Avengers Academy
- Veil, Hazmat, Mettle - not receiving treatment for various conditions
- Cassie dies
- No Stature
- Surgeon Lang rescued, Erica Sondheim, remains imprisoned by her captor
– Not available to later implant bio-tech chip that restored crippled Tony Stark, and later saved his life when it went wrong - without her, Stark either remains crippled or dies
- Becoming Yellowjacket
- Rita de Mara does not become Yellowjacket
– Is not present in Evolutionary War finale
– Is not present in any Guardians of the Galaxy story
– No death during the Crossing
– Is not present in Chaos War to help save Avengers, others
- Joining Defenders (as YJ)
- does not rescue captured Defenders Dr. Strange, Valkyrie and Hulk from the Squadron Sinister
- Mental breakdown/imprisonment/divorce from Janet Van Dyne
- No court-martial
- Jan doesn’t have affair with Tony Stark/Iron Man while Hank was imprisoned
- Jan doesn’t become the chastened Avengers leader later on (significantly affecting Masters of Evil’s siege of Mansion and Kang Dynasty, amongst others) OR conversely, Hank’s death forces this to happen much earlier
- Preventing Egghead’s schemes
- Egghead would have forced his niece Trish Starr into his robot, destroying her individuality and body.
- Death of Egghead
A - Egghead remains with Intelligencia, possibly eliminating MODOK’s involvement - no Red Hulk/She-Hulk, World War Hulks, Hulked-Out Heroes
- Joining West Coast Avengers (which wouldn’t exist without Vision)
- No participation in Time-Lost Saga - possibly leaving WCA stranded in the past
- No creation of MODAM (AIM scientists were unable to advance SODAM’s development without Pym’s help.)
- The Cosmic Cube disaster during “Taking AIM” might have been worse, with MODOK being reactivated sooner
- No Number None (the baby MODOK who claims his mother is MODAM)
- No SILENT, no HATE, and no Nextwave: Agents of HATE
- Undoing character development leading to a more independently confident Photon, a more bloodthirsty Elsa Bloodstone and the human-hating/zombie killing Machine Man
- No dimension-crossing experiments resulting in fugitive St. Looie’s hitman from being lost in “Otherwhere”
- Relationship with Firebird/Espirita
- Relationship with Tigra
– As mentioned below, Tigra’s son would probably never be born, since the Skrull who fathered said son was posing as Pym
– Participation in stopping Vibro from destroying LA with earthquakes
- Participation in the Crossing
- Jan not mutated, dies of injuries at hands of Iron Man
- Participation in Heroes Reborn
- Counter-Earth (Franklin) native and Avengers janitor Ernest Sanger would never have become Mant, the size-changing leader of the Remnants
- Participation in Destiny War (Possible Immortus picked a different Pym from another era/reality, so things might well have still gone much as seen)
– Doesn’t double cross both sides as Yellowjacket
- Rick Jones does not get involved in final battle
- Time-Keepers survive
– No final event prompting Lilandra to sponsor Maximum Security
– Quasar does not absorb Ego
- Reality-616 destroyed by Time-Keepers
- Curing of Firestar’s radiation problem
– Leading to earlier or worse cancer/death
- Pym not available to supervise treatment and containment of Jack of Hearts’ unstable physiology
- Replacement by Skrull(s)
- Various Skrulls that replaced him not participate in Initiative/Camp Hammond
- The Skrulls would have needed another highly placed superhuman genius to replace instead of Hank Pym.
- No GI-Ant-Man suit for Eric O’Grady to steal
- O’Grady dies in Helicarrier crash, never becomes Ant-Man
– No Skrull relationship with Tigra
- William Garson never born
- Dark Reign events
- No Infinite Mansion
- No Dark Reign-era Mighty Avengers
- Amadeus Cho/Vision Jonas/Stature’s membership negated
- Chthon victorious
- Not named Scientist Supreme
- Instruction at Avengers Academy
- Veil, Hazmat, Mettle - not receiving treatment for various conditions
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