According to Dr. Umar, the black church as a collective takes in $14 Million dollars every Sunday...

[D. Morgan]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

But you a Dr. Umar stan

Niggas lying for lol reactions. Well you accomplished your goal here you go lil guy

 

[AP21]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

ok..good for you (bolded)

but its posts like yours, that to say people who are like minded like you feel that churches are so bad, ya'll go out of ya'll way to talk down to them at every chance. I'm not in threads trying to convince people to go to church. Thats on you, and you are entitled to do whatever your heart desires

But TOO many people keep focusing on the building of the church instead of how the bible defines what church is. If its that important to you, then you again, go somewhere else.

and lol at me being wrong about people not getting kicked out. I was making a tongue in cheek remark about repercussions for not tithing and you found articles about TWO churches, which is hardly a valid sample size to support your claim.

NOT ALL CHURCHES KICK PEOPLE OUT FOR NOT TITHING. Maybe had i said that, then we arent having this discussion.

You didn't need to type all that bullshit. This would've been much easier and is the same thing you are doing

you just being obtuse at this point

 

[D. Morgan]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

ok..good for you (bolded)

but its posts like yours, that to say people who are like minded like you feel that churches are so bad, ya'll go out of ya'll way to talk down to them at every chance. I'm not in threads trying to convince people to go to church. Thats on you, and you are entitled to do whatever your heart desires

But TOO many people keep focusing on the building of the church instead of how the bible defines what church is. If its that important to you, then you again, go somewhere else.

and lol at me being wrong about people not getting kicked out. I was making a tongue in cheek remark about repercussions for not tithing and you found articles about TWO churches, which is hardly a valid sample size to support your claim.

NOT ALL CHURCHES KICK PEOPLE OUT FOR NOT TITHING. Maybe had i said that, then we arent having this discussion.

You didn't need to type all that bullshit. This would've been much easier and is the same thing you are doing

you just being obtuse at this point

Thats rich coming you regarding this topic.

I'm done with it though

 

[skpjr78]

Jesus himself knew these preachers were full of shit. He personally ran these no good, lying, money hungry, thieving, trash ass, prosperity pimps out of the church himself. He lieterally threw them and the bullshit they were trying to hustle out of the church......literally.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

No one hated these hustling ass preachers more than Christ. He knew they undercut his message more than anything else. What do you think Jesus would do if he walked inside of Creflo's church today? Would he condone this prosperity theology bullshit or would he cleanse the den of thieves? Think about that while you watch so called Christians beat the hell out of each other in malls all over the nation spending money they don't have, buying crap they don't need all while celebrating the birthday of a poor man who commanded that what you have done for the least of these you have done onto me.

i dont think ANYONE here would disagree with what you said

@"pachá12" just hit the feelings button on that post so obviously he disagrees. You know emotional these fake ass Christians get when you call them out on their bullshit. And nothing gets them more angry than using a direct quote from Jesus himself to prove just how wrong they really are. But what else would you expect from people who still practice the religion of their slave masters and continue to pray to white Jesus. Smh.

 

[AP21]

Jesus himself knew these preachers were full of shit. He personally ran these no good, lying, money hungry, thieving, trash ass, prosperity pimps out of the church himself. He lieterally threw them and the bullshit they were trying to hustle out of the church......literally.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

No one hated these hustling ass preachers more than Christ. He knew they undercut his message more than anything else. What do you think Jesus would do if he walked inside of Creflo's church today? Would he condone this prosperity theology bullshit or would he cleanse the den of thieves? Think about that while you watch so called Christians beat the hell out of each other in malls all over the nation spending money they don't have, buying crap they don't need all while celebrating the birthday of a poor man who commanded that what you have done for the least of these you have done onto me.

i dont think ANYONE here would disagree with what you said

@"pachá12" just hit the feelings button on that post so obviously he disagrees. You know emotional these fake ass Christians get when you call them out on their bullshit. And nothing gets them more angry than using a direct quote from Jesus himself to prove just how wrong they are. But what else would you expect from people who still practice the religion of their slave masters and prey to white Jesus.

well im gald you @'d him b/c i didnt disagree with what you said b/c i think it has some merit

 

[pachá12]

@skpjr78 I know about White Jesus as well as you know me. You're in the wrong. Lucifer used scripture to try to manipulate Christ. Comparable to what you do in terms of using scripture to troll Christians on this board. I don't argue with fools so I know for sure you haven't had an intellectual converstion with me.

You're the same person who tried to group Christians in with Black Friday. Why would i waste my time. Don't @ me, just stay in your feels and when I see you, I'll let you know.

 

[skpjr78]

@skpjr78 I know about White Jesus as well as you know me. You're in the wrong. Lucifer used scripture to try to manipulate Christ. Comparable to what you do in terms of using scripture to troll Christians on this board. I don't argue with fools so I know for sure you haven't had an intellectual converstion with me.

You're the same person who tried to group Christians in with Black Friday. Why would i waste my time. Don't @ me, just stay in your feels and when I see you, I'll let you know.

You wrote all that bullshit and none of that crap changes the fact that your bible which you Christians claim is the true word of God specifically tells you that Jesus literally turned over the tables of the money changers and threw them out of the temple. You wrote all that bullshit but still can't contradict anything that I said which is a direct quote from your self proclaimed saviour which came straight out of your bible which you claim is the word of God.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Smh at Christians claiming they are Christ like while doing and justifying everything that Christ stood against. You can't square this circle but I can't wait to see you try.

 

[sunlord]

@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????

 

[pachá12]

@skpjr78 I know about White Jesus as well as you know me. You're in the wrong. Lucifer used scripture to try to manipulate Christ. Comparable to what you do in terms of using scripture to troll Christians on this board. I don't argue with fools so I know for sure you haven't had an intellectual converstion with me.

You're the same person who tried to group Christians in with Black Friday. Why would i waste my time. Don't @ me, just stay in your feels and when I see you, I'll let you know.

You wrote all that bullshit and none of that crap changes the fact that your bible which you Christians claim is the true word of God specifically tells you that Jesus literally turned over the tables of the money changers and threw them out of the temple. You wrote all that bullshit but still can't contradict anything that I said which is a direct quote from your self proclaimed saviour which came straight out of your bible which you claim is the word of God.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Smh at Christians claiming they are Christ like while doing and justifying everything that Christ stood against. You can't square this circle but I can't wait to see you try.

Why exactly do I have to contradict you? Plus, I know these scriptures, you can save them. I haven't seen you post the one about the prostitute, but maybe that would slow you down. It sounds like you broke the rule, Trust No Man (There is extensive scripture on this), you sound more disappointed than an actual Christian. I hear what you saying about the Bible being the true word of God, that can be debated, I know there's scripture that affirms that.

To keep it 100, i was on my way to the gym and saw I got mentioned. Put simply, good and bad in all of us, even Christians. Flesh is still flesh. So while Dr. Johnson is checking pockets, he's actually fueling more issues within the black community. Real Christians know what time it is, bighñfer issues going. The reality is that we are in the times where the tree is shaking for all religions, the focus is to strengthen. A Pastor thats living wrong is going to the same hell that any unrepentant sinner is going to. I'm done with this. You're wrong and need to make your peace with some things in your life.

Thank you you for motivating me to find a particular scripture.

 

[skpjr78]

@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????

No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question God. It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.

Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory bullshit right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that bullshit for the negros who still pray to the same God as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.

 

[sunlord]

@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????

No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question God. It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.

Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory bullshit right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that bullshit for the negros who still pray to the same God as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.

LOL keep studying.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

But you a Dr. Umar stan

Niggas lying for lol reactions. Well you accomplished your goal here you go lil guy

Lying bout what nigga?

You're ass was caping hard for that nigga in that diploma thread about him.

Oh, you forgot here some of you're dumb shit

Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?

If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.

If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable

If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the fuck are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to?

You should probably take your own advice, since you ain't contributing to the church, what the fuck gives you the right to say what they should do w/ the money

 

[skpjr78]

@skpjr78 I know about White Jesus as well as you know me. You're in the wrong. Lucifer used scripture to try to manipulate Christ. Comparable to what you do in terms of using scripture to troll Christians on this board. I don't argue with fools so I know for sure you haven't had an intellectual converstion with me.

You're the same person who tried to group Christians in with Black Friday. Why would i waste my time. Don't @ me, just stay in your feels and when I see you, I'll let you know.

You wrote all that bullshit and none of that crap changes the fact that your bible which you Christians claim is the true word of God specifically tells you that Jesus literally turned over the tables of the money changers and threw them out of the temple. You wrote all that bullshit but still can't contradict anything that I said which is a direct quote from your self proclaimed saviour which came straight out of your bible which you claim is the word of God.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Smh at Christians claiming they are Christ like while doing and justifying everything that Christ stood against. You can't square this circle but I can't wait to see you try.

Why exactly do I have to contradict you? Plus, I know these scriptures, you can save them. I haven't seen you post the one about the prostitute, but maybe that would slow you down. It sounds like you broke the rule, Trust No Man (There is extensive scripture on this), you sound more disappointed than an actual Christian. I hear what you saying about the Bible being the true word of God, that can be debated, I know there's scripture that affirms that.

To keep it 100, i was on my way to the gym and saw I got mentioned. Put simply, good and bad in all of us, even Christians. Flesh is still flesh. So while Dr. Johnson is checking pockets, he's actually fueling more issues within the black community. Real Christians know what time it is, bighñfer issues going. The reality is that we are in the times where the tree is shaking for all religions, the focus is to strengthen. A Pastor thats living wrong is going to the same hell that any unrepentant sinner is going to. I'm done with this. You're wrong and need to make your peace with some things in your life.

Thank you you for motivating me to find a particular scripture.

If I'm wrong than so is your bible and your Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. His words not mine.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Either Jesus, your bible, your preachers or you aren't telling the truth. Somebody lying. Until you can tell who the liar is I'll just ignore all of yall.

#MustBe2Sides

 

[D. Morgan]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

But you a Dr. Umar stan

Niggas lying for lol reactions. Well you accomplished your goal here you go lil guy

Lying bout what nigga?

You're ass was caping hard for that nigga in that diploma thread about him.

Oh, you forgot here some of you're dumb shit

Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?

If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.

If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable

If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the fuck are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to?

You should probably take your own advice, since you ain't contributing to the church, what the fuck gives you the right to say what they should do w/ the money

You that pressed for lols you don't realize that contradicts you lying ass statement.

Not once have I said what the church should or shouldn't do with the money cause it ain't my money. Stating facts that some churches do fucked up shit with tithes ain't the equivalent of saying what the church should do with the money.

I knew you would pick that post instead the others I posted in that thread. Especially make the choice not post were I said "it makes sense for folks to question what was done with the money. Its actually smart for a person who hasn't donated money to hold off on donating money to the school if they don't like the way Umar is answering questions by the people who have donated money."

Yeah you a lying ass nigga pressed for lol reactions. You got them now eat your cookie for your lol accomplishment

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

But you a Dr. Umar stan

Niggas lying for lol reactions. Well you accomplished your goal here you go lil guy

Lying bout what nigga?

You're ass was caping hard for that nigga in that diploma thread about him.

Oh, you forgot here some of you're dumb shit

Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?

If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.

If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable

If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the fuck are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to?

You should probably take your own advice, since you ain't contributing to the church, what the fuck gives you the right to say what they should do w/ the money

You that pressed for lols you don't realize that contradicts you lying ass statement.



Not once have I said what the church should or shouldn't do with the money cause it ain't my money. Stating facts that some churches do fucked up shit with tithes ain't the equivalent of saying what the church should do with the money.

Yeah cuz this post isn't a shot at how the church money is spent.

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

Nigga the pastor can't ride around in a $80k car if the church paying members bills.

Thy Lord and Savior White Jesus Christ will take care of my bills while my tithes every week will take care of the pastor so he can live a life of luxury for saving members souls.

That's how this works!!!!!

But I'M the one contradicting myself.

 

[D. Morgan]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

But you a Dr. Umar stan

Niggas lying for lol reactions. Well you accomplished your goal here you go lil guy

Lying bout what nigga?

You're ass was caping hard for that nigga in that diploma thread about him.

Oh, you forgot here some of you're dumb shit

Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?

If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.

If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable

If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the fuck are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to?

You should probably take your own advice, since you ain't contributing to the church, what the fuck gives you the right to say what they should do w/ the money

You that pressed for lols you don't realize that contradicts you lying ass statement.



Not once have I said what the church should or shouldn't do with the money cause it ain't my money. Stating facts that some churches do fucked up shit with tithes ain't the equivalent of saying what the church should do with the money.

Yeah cuz this post isn't a shot at how the church money is spent.

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

Nigga the pastor can't ride around in a $80k car if the church paying members bills.

Thy Lord and Savior White Jesus Christ will take care of my bills while my tithes every week will take care of the pastor so he can live a life of luxury for saving members souls.

That's how this works!!!!!

But I'M the one contradicting myself.

Yes you are if you don't get the obvious sarcasm of that statement then you more pressed then I ever thought you was.

How many lol reactions you want cause its obviously that important to you?

Nigga you looking silly shit right now.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

every member huh?

no one should be homeless huh?

you dont know me like that fam...this a hill i will die on...you ready for this convo or nah?

yup every member... they paying they tithes struggling and poor whole the pastors ballin in jets and shit. backwards ass shit

you DONT HAVE TO MAKE MONETARY TITHES

if you dont have it to give, dont give ...its that simple...what they gon do...kick you out?

People are missing the entire point of what the tithe is supposed to be anyway

Actually yes nigga!!!

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

BAINBRIDGE, GA (WALB) -

A 92-year-old woman is no longer allowed to worship at the church where she was a member for more than 50 years because she was not tithing.

Josephine King said that was the reason she was kicked out of Bainbridge's First African Baptist Church.

Her family members said they hope the situation will bring change to churches across the nation.

“Josephine King is no longer considered a member of the First African Baptist Church of Bainbridge, Georgia,” read Gerald Simmons, as he skimmed over the letter addressed to his aunt.

The letter, signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike, stated that Ms. King "has shown non-support" towards the church in the areas of "constant and consistent financial and physical participation."

"She was stunned. She was disappointed. She was shocked," said Simmons.

He said Ms. King was considered sick and a shut-in for several months, which was the reason for her lack of attendance.

He also said his aunt had gone above and beyond in the past to financially support the church.

"You shouldn't chase the individuals down," said Simmons. "You shouldn't do that. If that's the case, you're money hungry."

Simmons also noted that his aunt isn't the first person to receive a letter of removal for not tithing, and hopes her story will shed some light on the policy.

"You have to have money to make these churches run, but it's not about money,” Simmons said. "It's about God. You have to put God first."

Several requests for comment from the church were made, but no responses by officials or other members were given.
http://www.walb.com/story/29762845/92-year-old-woman-kicked-out-of-church-for-not-tithing

Here is one more

Florida church sends collection notices to ‘delinquent’ tithers

A Tampa woman is outraged after she says she received a collection notice in the mail from her local church ordering her to pay $1,000 in order to be considered a “member in good standing.”

“People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there,” Candace Petterson, a single mother who has been attending the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church for six months, told a local ABC affiliate.

Ms. Petterson said things were going perfectly at her new church until she received a letter at her home last week.

“To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Ms. Petterson. “Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven’t heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?”

“Then Mount Moriah Day is on there, $150,” she added, plus a yearly church anniversary fee of $250, brings the total to $1,000 in required donations per year.

Ms. Petterson said she was told one of the fees is to help pay off the church’s debts. She also learned that her daughter, 11, would also have to meet the financial requirements to become a member, ABC reported.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/florida-church-sends-collection-notices-to-delinqu/

THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE??

i've said this a couple of times

Fuck all that shit you talking nigga you can read and know damn well that post was a direct reply to you talking like they don't kick people out of church cause they don't tithe.

You was wrong move along to another point about the fallacy that is church.

Oh you have me sadly mistaken I don't go to church. I stopped going to church the second my mother felt I could be left home alone which was between 10-12 can't remember the exact age.

I have better things I can do than to sit somewhere and be lied to. The singing in church ain't that good for me to go just to be musically entertained.

But you a Dr. Umar stan

Niggas lying for lol reactions. Well you accomplished your goal here you go lil guy

Lying bout what nigga?

You're ass was caping hard for that nigga in that diploma thread about him.

Oh, you forgot here some of you're dumb shit

Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?

If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.

If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable

If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the fuck are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to?

You should probably take your own advice, since you ain't contributing to the church, what the fuck gives you the right to say what they should do w/ the money

You that pressed for lols you don't realize that contradicts you lying ass statement.



Not once have I said what the church should or shouldn't do with the money cause it ain't my money. Stating facts that some churches do fucked up shit with tithes ain't the equivalent of saying what the church should do with the money.

Yeah cuz this post isn't a shot at how the church money is spent.

if they getting all that money every members bill shoukd be paid and no one should be homeless

Nigga the pastor can't ride around in a $80k car if the church paying members bills.

Thy Lord and Savior White Jesus Christ will take care of my bills while my tithes every week will take care of the pastor so he can live a life of luxury for saving members souls.

That's how this works!!!!!

But I'M the one contradicting myself.

Yes you are if you don't get the obvious sarcasm of that statement then you more pressed then I ever thought you was.

How many lol reactions you want cause its obviously that important to you?

Nigga you looking silly shit right now.

Yes, a sarcastic shot at the church and what is done with the money.

Cuz you did it sarcastically, means it wasn't a shot?

Man you're the epitome of a smart dumb nigga.

 

[D. Morgan]

That wasn't your point so now you trying to move the goalpost cause you that pressed to try and prove some shit that just ain't there.

Its your fault you out here looking silly not mine.

So what else you got?

Please at least make the shit worth my while cause so far the shit you pulling is fucking pathetic! On top of it being boring me at this point.

 

[Kwan Dai]

Jesus himself knew these preachers were full of shit. He personally ran these no good, lying, money hungry, thieving, trash ass, prosperity pimps out of the church himself. He lieterally threw them and the bullshit they were trying to hustle out of the church......literally.

Matthew 21:12 (KJV)

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

No one hated these hustling ass preachers more than Christ. He knew they undercut his message more than anything else. What do you think Jesus would do if he walked inside of Creflo's church today? Would he condone this prosperity theology bullshit or would he cleanse the den of thieves? Think about that while you watch so called Christians beat the hell out of each other in malls all over the nation spending money they don't have, buying crap they don't need all while celebrating the birthday of a poor man who commanded that what you have done for the least of these you have done onto me.

i dont think ANYONE here would disagree with what you said

@"pachá12" just hit the feelings button on that post so obviously he disagrees. You know emotional these fake ass Christians get when you call them out on their bullshit. And nothing gets them more angry than using a direct quote from Jesus himself to prove just how wrong they really are. But what else would you expect from people who still practice the religion of their slave masters and continue to pray to white Jesus. Smh.

I get what you're trying to relay. However, I think you're casting to big of a net. All pastors and Christians aren't lying deceiving misguided folks.

 

[blackrain]

@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????

No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question God. It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.

Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory bullshit right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that bullshit for the negros who still pray to the same God as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.

I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask shit christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere