What Is Your Stance on "State-Sponsored Torture"?

[Will Munny]

Sometimes it may more less moral to NOT torture someone if we know it can save lives and all other options are exhausted.

There’s some well known cases of torture that get brought in college philosophy classes all the time.

 

[AZTG]

Are there any reliable studies on the effectiveness of torture?

 

[TheGOAT]

Its ineffective

They end up saying whatever the person wants to hear to stop the pain. Often making shit up.

Give Gitmo back to Cuba

 

[atribecalledgabi]

Its ineffective

They end up saying whatever the person wants to hear to stop the pain. Often making shit up.

Give Gitmo back to Cuba

This.

But I also am not gonna pretend that I care that it happens...

 

[playmaker88]

tough.. but how do you torture someone whos is willing to die anyhow.

 

[5 Grand]

Are there any reliable studies on the effectiveness of torture?

I saw something on TV a few weeks ago. They were talking about Navy Seals training. I think its after the 8th week they do "Hell Week". Hell week is a week with no sleep and constant drills and exercises. They have to swim in shark infested waters after having no sleep for several days.

I guess the point is to go through a week of torture. Then, if (or when) you get captured by the enemy and they start torturing you you know what torture is like. If you've been in torture situations before you will last longer than a person who'd never been tortured.

But having said that, if I ever get captured and held hostage I hope they don't torture me.

The bottom line is you can't condone the torture of the people we capture if you don't want our soldiers to get tortured when they get captured.

If you don't want our guys to get tortured, then we can't torture them.

 

[blakfyahking]

SMH @ cosigning state sponsored torture

the govt will of course state that it will only be done to terrorists

but of course anyone can be labeled a terrorist under current laws ie. Patriot Act

 

[AZTG]

SMH @ cosigning state sponsored torture

the govt will of course state that it will only be done to terrorists

but of course anyone can be labeled a terrorist under current laws ie. Patriot Act

This is a great point.

My thing is even with terrorists, the ones who actually commit an attack or fight on the front lines have no real info on the top dogs, so what is torture gonna accomplish?

The inner workings of terrorist groups are not like any army where the commands come from the top. Instead they work as independent groups of however many, plotting attacks that the other groups dont even know about. The whole point is for them to plan and execute attacks at their own discretion, thats what makes them so dangerous.

With all things under consideration, I just dont think torture is effective as civilians think it is, and if it was the govt would never have banned it.

Still need more info though.

 

[Rozetta5tone]

I forgot his name but one of the most successful military interrogators never used torture or aggressive tactics yet every man that was sat in front of him eventually gave up whatever information the officials wanted.

He just used common courtesy, manners and treated his prisoners like human beings and not anything less than.

Also from personal experience I’ve been told the most secrets just by listening and allowing a person to feel comfortable being themselves.

But hey, some mfs prefer to use an iron fist to pry info.

 

[blakfyahking]

SMH @ cosigning state sponsored torture

the govt will of course state that it will only be done to terrorists

but of course anyone can be labeled a terrorist under current laws ie. Patriot Act

This is a great point.

My thing is even with terrorists, the ones who actually commit an attack or fight on the front lines have no real info on the top dogs, so what is torture gonna accomplish?

The inner workings of terrorist groups are not like any army where the commands come from the top. Instead they work as independent groups of however many, plotting attacks that the other groups dont even know about. The whole point is for them to plan and execute attacks at their own discretion, thats what makes them so dangerous.

With all things under consideration, I just dont think torture is effective as civilians think it is, and if it was the govt would never have banned it.

Still need more info though.

exactly @ the bolded

I'll even give a 1st hand acct on the bullshit............most mofos who know me know I was in the Army

well back in 2003, I was in 101st ABN Division when we invaded Iraq

by near the end of the year most of our days in my unit were spent doing what we called "reindeer games" (reindeer games meant we went around prancing doing the same dumb shit over and over to make it appear like we were doing something important instead of just wasting time waiting to redeploy)

many of these reindeer games consisted of either doing night raids or guarding the detainee cages

guarding the detainee cage was one of the worst jobs cuz basically u just babysitting/fucking with all the enemy combatants that were captured the previous day/night

then ur job was to help process these mofos by questioning/sorting thru who were actual terrorists......and who were just some random civilians with the common name of "muhammad"

if u were a subordinate u were told to do all sorts of dumb to get these detainees to talk, ie. deprive of sleep, put them in rooms with the lights flickering, playing loud rock and roll music.........shit got to the point where the damn guards were pretty much suffering the same shit as the detainees cuz u were expected to participate

and do u know how much actionable intelligence we got from those detainees? pretty much none........

but guess how many new enemies we created after capturing and releasing these dudes back in the streets? take a wild guess and google Mosul Iraq in 2003/2004 to confirm ur answer SMH

 

[Elzo69Renaissance]

First Arabs, next niggas...slippery slope

 

[babelipsss]

I not worried about it happening to me.

 

[LUClEN]

If the "bad guys" (e.g., terrorists) torture, should the "good guys" (government officials) be able to do it too?

This seems like a huge problem. If we resort to the tactics of our enemies, we blur the lines that differentiate us from them.

 

[Will Munny]

Well the thing is people will say anything to get the torture to stop so you can’t even really count on it as reliable information.

There is an instance people talk about in New Zealand where a guy stole a car with a little girl in it, ditched the car with the girl in and ended up getting caught. The guy was on camera stealing the car, it was obviously him but he kept denying it and wouldn’t say where he ditched the car because he said it wasn’t him.

The cops decided to rough him and punch him a few times and he then gave up the info and they found the girl.

So was putting hands on this dude the moral

Or immoral thing to do?

 

[CeLLaR-DooR]

Niggas have known that torture is near useless for hundreds of years. Much better results bein' nice but population don't like that and governments like to appear to be strong.

 

[LUClEN]

Niggas have known that torture is near useless for hundreds of years. Much better results bein' nice but population don't like that and governments like to appear to be strong.

What? How is it useless when there are countless examples of people being tortured who admit to stuff they didn't even do?

You ever see In the Name of the Father ?