The Reason Debates V: PimpMVP vs King Lee: debate is over PimpMVP wins

[CallMeWelvin]

Mixtapes are a necessity in today's hip-hop culture because it not only let artists get their music out to a wide market quickly, it also help artists to demo themselves. One might say, "if you want to sell cars for a career, you wouldn't give out free cars" and I would tend to agree . You wouldn't give out free cars but you would give out test drives. This is were mixtapes are so essential, it's a way for listeners to test drive an artist's music.

Mixtape in essence is a cornerstone in hiphop. They help create buzz for not only countless startup rappers but also established rappers. Look at an artist like Lil Wayne, he was an established artist that had basically fell into obscurity in the early '00s. His series of "Da Drought" mixtapes helped recreate a buzz for Lil Wayne that was unseen and unmatched in hip hop. Mixtapes shouldn't be seen as a hindrance but as a launching pad or a way to create buzz.

Mixtapes are a way to let an artist promote their music without needing a major label intervention. Every artist does not have a multi million dollar budget to get their name out into the public's attention and mixtape decreased the need for needing such a budget. An artist from New York can get his/her music heard by a person in California without needing to pay out major bucks. A mixtape as a promotional tool help artists build a fan base and artists can eventually cash in on that. Mixtapes are an investment and artist's music are the product. By investing in mixtape, artist can get a a bigger return I.e bigger fan base, label recognition, radio play,shows,ect. Unless you're able to make a hit dance/trap song then there is no better way to get your music out than mixtape. You can be as talented as you want but unless there's an outlet for you to put your music on display and you embrace that outlet then that talent is wasted and does not matter.

 

[CallMeWelvin]

Jamacia, when will an alternate be able to take Lee's place?

 

[King Lee]

While Mixtapes have a benefit and can help put you into the music business, they’ve also been a big hinderance to Hip Hop. Mixtapes at a time were special and could serve the purpose of being the appetizer for the official project or just keep your name abuzz. However, the oversaturation of mixtapes into the market has led to the unappreciation of Hip Hop. Songs or Mixtapes aren’t appreciated when you have 5-10 more dropping tomorrow. It just gets lost in the shuffle. You could have that one song that the people love, but the next day you’ll have demand for another one. Where’s the appreciation?

The line between mixtapes and albums are starting to blur because these days If your tape isn’t album quality than it ain’t worth a listen. When you pump out a 22 song mixtape(Ex. Tip) before the album where is the demand after you’ve fed your fans so good they may not want to pick up the album. Some artists put out 3 to 4 tapes(Game, Loso) before their album and still can’t get the attention they desire, so instead of going to their next project they go back to the square one(mixtape again). It hurts the full attention/quality that the album deserves. All in all I think it cripples the length span of an artist’s career even though these days artists drop every year.

 

[moedays]

Nice arguments. Gotta go with King Lee.

 

[CallMeWelvin]

Mixtapes do not cripple the longevity of an artist career, and one would be misinformed to believe such. Jeezy, 50 Cent, Rick Ross, TI, Lil Wayne, ect have all either used mixtapes to begin or substain their careers; each artist has also been in the industry close to 10 years or more. An artist's longevity can be blamed on lack of quality music or an artist making music that the market does not want.

Mixtapes infact increases most artists' career longevity and give them a chance to be more diverse with their music. Case in point, Lupe Fiasco's label wanted him to make an album that he didn't necessary agree with. His hands were tied so to speak but with the assistance of mixtapes, he was able to get music out that the label will not allow on their album. There are many cited cases where executives hand artist instrumentals with premade hooks and tell the artist to create verses. With mixtapes there are no such stipulation put on an artist. An artists is able to get his vision out the way he sees fits, which again helps the artist.

Mixtapes are needed in hiphop, which is why you seldom see other genre of music using mixtapes as an outlet for their music. Hip Hop is fairly new when compared to genre of music like Rock, Country, Jazz, Blues, ect. This outlet is needed for artists in this culture. Mixtapes are almost mutually exclusive to this genre because it helps artist spread a message that the mass media may not accept or agree with. Let me leave you with this, you claim that mixtapes over saturated the market but you fail to realize the without mixtapes there would be little to no market for hiphop.

 

[infamous114]

Good debate so far...

 

[Chasin Bundlez]

Goin with King Lee on this one.. with hiphop sales at its lowest point in recent memory, and mixtapes hittin the market at a pace unlike which has ever been seen, I think its safe to say there is a correlation.

King Lee 1

PimpMVP 0

 

[CallMeWelvin]

Yea, it has nothing to do with the explosion of the internet and the ability to download music at will.

Stop being annoyance and let us debate... you really need a life.

 

[5th Letter]

Hold off on voting until the debate is over.

 

[Chasin Bundlez]

Pimp, my buddy, my pal, I am just a casual observer stating my opinion on a debate in which I think you're losing.

This is America, freedom of speech.

If u come with something other than the reduntant bullshit u have been coming with thus far, u might sway my opinion... I am not a bias poster, check my GOAT IC member list, I give credit where credit is due.. now take it easy and try to focus on the task at hand, emotions will have u flustered and not at your best, just some words of advice, goodluck... ciao!

 

[King Lee]

Yeah, mixtapes have their advantages. Lupe is able to supply his fans with more conscious music through his tapes, but albums are the official deal, the product that keeps you relevant longer. It's what they remember last.As I said before mixtapes are something that are given as appetizers or just to keep your name out there. What happens when you’re dropping tape after tape and they get the acclaim from their fan base. Now you drop the album it has the commercial singles and the blend of hip hop the artist is known for, but it doesn’t resonate too well with the critics and fans because you spread yourself too thin over the music. You hear things like “His mixtapes were better, why did he put such weak records”, “His last album was better and he fell off”. That’s when you lose fans and there are fans like that that follow artists to an extent, but don’t really follow them on mixtapes. They equate no album, or commercial records to failure even though they dropped plenty of records on their mixtapes that they probably would have liked because it was their vision and they were100% hands on. Years later when people compare the current album and the previous one they’re going to remember how it was a letdown hurting the artists catalogue and reputation cause even though mixtapes are vital to a point its nowhere near the pedestal of an album. Some of these fickle ass fans don’t understand the hell artists go through with the industry and it seems like with the pop like attention span on music the artists is splitting himself with mixtapes and albums.

 

[idoitforhiphop10]

Every debate I've seen so far uses lupe as an example. Just a observation.

 

[CallMeWelvin]

What about the artist that has been shelved due to lack of buzz. What is he to do? Should he sit still and pray for that fans miraculously begin to like his music or should he show initiative and create his own buzz? What about the talented kid at home.. should he sit at home and hope that he's somehow discovered or should he show initiative and attempt to create his own movement? See what you fail to realize is that no matter what your status is in hip hop, mixtapes can only help you.

Wiz Khalifa, Big Sean, J.Cole, Kendrick Lamar, Big Krit, ect all used mixtapes to create a buzz and seperate themselves from the pack. Where would they be without mixtape? Should they of thought to themselves "I don't want to over saturate the market or give out free music"? No, because that's stupidity at its finest. Mixtape have help launched many many careers. An artist like Drake who under normal circumstances wouldn't be heard; a Canadian rapper was able to get his music heard and spread worldwide thanks to mixtapes.

Fans aren't willing to put money into an artist pocket that they've never heard before which is understandable. Mixtape is essentially the middleman between artists and listeners and in most cases are a win/win for both. The artist gets his music heard and more people added to his fanbase and the listeners get to decide if the artist is worth investing money in, in the future.

So let revisit why mixtape are so essential to the hip hop community. They eliminate the need for major label promotion, artists are able to spread their music easily ad quickly, they help both newcomers and established artist create/recreate a buzz, artists are able to express their vision of their music without being dictated, and they give the listeners an avenue to test drive an artist's music.

 

[Chasin Bundlez]

Now that's the spirit, Pimp, much better, atta boy. *hand clap*

 

[CallMeWelvin]

You're too stupid to realize singular possessive, you fucktard.

Try to separate The Donkey from other subforum, son. You're looking more and more like a female.

 

[jono]

Good debate. I think King Lee put together the better argument. He killed you with the common-man response: "I like his mixtapes better" that alone tells you that mixtapes have become too big an issue in today's hip-hop culture.

Mixtapes only became a big deal when 50 Cent came out so technically its a new artform, not a cornerstone like the debater said it was. But it was a good argument about giving artists the ability to be heard.

The major unanswerable point is that mixtapes get COMPARED to and ultimately OVERTOOK the concept of albums.

He also posted another nice point about over-saturation. You got cats out here with 5 mixtapes and 0 albums, you got people with release dates and videos for mixtape songs. That's not good for the artform, nobody wants to rap for free and not many that are good at rapping will rap for free.

The structure of mixtapes currently is more the problem than actual mixtapes. The structure is all new songs over original beats, with videos, release dates etc. The old structure was rapping over other people's beats, it was a sort of demo tape, not part of someone's discography.

Good battle from both gentleman.

 

[CallMeWelvin]

He killed you with the common-man response "I like his mixtape better"

Lol really? ^^^™this killed me?

I killed every argument he could possibly bring up.

It's not which topic you agree with it's who made the better argument. You can't possibly read my argument and then his and actually say he made a better argument.

 

[King Lee]

Your right the mixtape did give artists like KRIT and Lamar the opportunity to become superstars. A new artist really has nothing to lose by putting out a mixtape, but I’m trying to explain the overall effect of the mixtape on Hip Hop and what it has done. Mixtapes surpassing albums is problematic because mixtapes are free. Ever since 50 changed the mixtape game niggas had to step up their game when it came to mixtapes. When you’re setting up tapes with impressive concepts, original songs, and videos. Well damn might as well be an album.

 

[CallMeWelvin]

This has been a very good debate. Good job @King Lee.

Good luck bro

 

[King Lee]

This has been a very good debate. Good job @King Lee.

Good luck bro

thanks man, this was a dope topic