The Official 2017 NFL Season Thread

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once we figure out a pay system...I'll just drop the link and the password and first come first serve

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Passing Yards:1 point per 20 yards

Passing Touchdowns:4 points

Interceptions Thrown:-2 points

400+ Passing Yards Bonus:5 points

40+ Passing Yard TD Bonus:4 points

Rushing Yards:1 point per 10 yards

Rushing Touchdowns:6 points

40+ Rushing Yard TD Bonus:4 points

200+ Rushing Yards Bonus:5 points

Receptions:1 point

Receiving Yards:1 point per 10 yards

Receiving Touchdowns:6 points

40+ Receiving Yard TD Bonus:4 points

200+ Receiving Yards Bonus:5 points

Kickoff and Punt Return Yards:1 point per 25 yards

Kickoff and Punt Return Touchdowns:6 points

Fumble Recovered for TD:6 points

Fumbles Lost:-2 points

2-Point Conversions:2 points
 
Sacks:1 point

Interceptions:2 points

Fumbles Recovered:2 points

Safeties:2 points

Touchdowns:6 points

Blocked Kicks:2 points

Kickoff and Punt Return Yards:1 point per 25 yards

Kickoff and Punt Return Touchdowns:6 points

Points Allowed 0:12 points

Points Allowed 1-6:9 points

Points Allowed 7-13:6 points

Points Allowed 14-20:3 points

Points Allowed 21-27:0 points

Points Allowed 28-34:-1 point

Points Allowed 35+:-4 points

100-199 Yards Allowed:4 points

Team Def 2-point Return:2 points
 
PAT Made:1 point

FG Made 0-19:3 points

FG Made 20-29:3 points

FG Made 30-39:3 points

FG Made 40-49:4 points

FG Made 50+:5 points

FG Missed 0-19:-2 points

FG Missed 20-29:-2 points

FG Missed 30-39:-2 points
 
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/sto...ots-tom-brady-green-bay-packers-aaron-rodgers

2017 NFL QB Tier Rankings

This marks my fourth annual NFL QB Tier rankings, featuring an expert panel that was our largest one yet. Fifty league insiders placed 36 QBs into one of five tiers, with Tier 1 reserved for the best and Tier 5 for the worst.

Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady were again the only unanimous Tier 1 selections, but they had fresh company in the top grouping. Colin Kaepernick, though unsigned, came in ahead of eight potential starters. There was also some drama, as the 49th and 50th ballots collected determined which tiers Matt Ryan and Dak Prescott fell into.

The higher the tier, the less help the quarterback needs to be effective, especially when circumstances inevitably call for him to flourish in pure passing situations -- those highly pressurized times when handing off or running with the ball do not cut it, and the quarterback must win from the pocket for his team to have a chance.

The breakdown of our 50 voters this year: Nine general managers, six pro personnel directors, five other executives, five head coaches, seven offensive coordinators, six defensive coordinators, five defensive assistants, three analytics directors, two quarterbacks coaches and two national scouts.

Rookie quarterbacks have been excluded from this file, due to a lack of information for our panel to judge.

A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. Expertly handles pure-pass situations.

The Atlanta Falcons had just taken a 28-3 lead over the Patriots in the Super Bowl when a text-message reply came through from one of my regular QB Tiers voters.

"Nothing is over!" the text read. "28-3 turns game into pure pass. #12 will close this gap -- may not be enough, but gap will close.
Quinn better get his marker board out on the sideline cuz he's gonna run outta pass D calls."

The record-setting comeback Tom Brady led improved his record to 16-12 (.571) during the past five seasons when the Patriots' opponents exceeded 24 points. Teams lose those games 80 percent of the time. Derek Carr (7-15, .318) is second and Matt Ryan (12-26, .316) third among QBs with at least 32 starts since 2012.

"To be honest with you, Brady probably needs to have his own category," a former GM said. "Brady, above the neck, is just way ahead of everybody, and his competitiveness is every bit as good as [Aaron] Rodgers' competitiveness. His toughness is every bit as good, if not better. For all the GQ stuff, the guy is a blue-collar quarterback and his ability to process, his smarts, his poise are just off the charts."

Earlier this summer, a separate poll of 10 longtime NFL coaches and personnel people identified Brady as the NFL's best quarterback of the past 40 years. Rodgers was fifth.

"At one time in the league, I thought I'd never see anybody better than Joe Montana," a QB Tiers voter said. "Joe had his own category. This guy [Brady] is like that, if not better."


The ability to carry their teams and strike fear into opponents when the game becomes pure pass separates Tier 1 quarterbacks from the rest.

"To me, that is the whole deal," a defensive coordinator said. "Some guys are system guys, meaning they have to run their whole offense -- run game and pass game -- to be effective. If you make them one-dimensional and they have to try to win it at the end, to me, that is what separates them."

The Packers ran dangerously low on running backs and defensive backs last season, putting pressure on Rodgers to carry them. Carry them, he did. Rodgers tossed 15 touchdown passes without an interception during a six-game winning streak to end the season. He then led Green Bay to the NFC Championship Game. No quarterback in the game possesses his combination of pure passing ability and athleticism.

"His ability to improvise or make plays when the defense is perfectly executed is unique," a personnel director said. "I'm not a big fan of the 'arm talent' term, but some of the throws Rodgers makes, even when you are playing against him, you are just like, 'Holy s---, what do you do?' He is very frustrating for a defense because you play everything exactly right and he still just makes a 'holy s--- play' and it's demoralizing."

While Rodgers dazzles with his uncommon athleticism, a veteran defensive coach said the quarterback's pre-snap recognition is exceptional.

"If he can figure [the play] out, you can forget about it," this coach said. "And then, unless it is third-and-a-mile, there is not a third down he doesn't think he can convert. If you three-man rush him, he is going to extend plays and let guys uncover and he can put the ball in tight windows."

An offensive coordinator said he thought Rodgers had the quickest release in the game, calling Rodgers "scary" for his ability to throw with accuracy and velocity from awkward angles.

"A lot of quarterbacks are pretty good sitting back in the pocket, but the first or second read disappears and they break down," a personnel director said. "With him, he can extend the play and do pretty miraculous things. Last year, the talent around him struggled, but he was still able to play some pretty elite games even after he lost his receivers and didn't have a running game."


The 50th and final ballot collected broke a tie between Roethlisberger and Drew Brees for the third overall spot. Roethlisberger checks several of the Tier 1 boxes. He can carry the Steelers' offense and win playoff games doing so. The question was whether Roethlisberger did these things consistently enough to earn the highest respect.

"There is nothing that is not a [Tier] 1 about that guy," an offensive coordinator argued. "He is awesome. I heard that at their quarterback meetings, they sit and talk about golf, and he just goes out there and he is just competing and winging it and he kills everybody every week. He saves plays with his feet, he moves around and it is never too big for him."

A defensive coordinator who placed Roethlisberger in the top tier cursed six times in his first six sentences when asked about the Steelers' quarterback. Those were curse words born of respect from years of playing against Roethlisberger. "I am looking at this and saying if you put it on his shoulders every time, I think he can consistently win," this defensive coordinator said. "If you said, 'All right, Ben, we need you to throw it 55 times this game, as a defensive coordinator, I'm thinking, 'F---.'"

That might have been what the Broncos were thinking in Week 15 of the 2015 season, which was the last time Roethlisberger attempted that many passes. Denver owned one of the greatest defenses in recent NFL history that season. Roethlisberger completed 40 of 55 attempts for 380 yards and three scores as Pittsburgh overcame a 27-13 halftime deficit to win the game. It was a Tier 1 performance, for sure.


Still, a defensive-minded head coach said he thought Roethlisberger was much better when asked to throw the ball 25-30 times in a more balanced offense, whereas Brady could be effective more consistently without keeping defenses guessing. A defensive coordinator who placed Roethlisberger in the second tier said Roethlisberger and Cam Newton are freelancers for better and worse, and that Roethlisberger is simply better than Newton at it.

"He still carries that team when he is in there," an offensive coordinator said, "but I would have to say he is a [Tier] 2. Some weeks he is a 1, some weeks he is a 2. For me, that kind of qualifies him as a 2. I think when he has got extremely talented people around him, he is a good player, but he doesn't lift the level of the team all the time."
 
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The Saints finished 2016 ranked among the NFL's top three in total yards, passing yards, first downs, third-down conversion rate and offensive points scored. They rank first or second in all those categories -- and second in Total QBR -- since acquiring Brees before the 2006 season. There was still debate over whether Brees belonged in the top tier.

"Look at third down," a secondary coach who placed Brees in the top tier said. "New Orleans has been No. 1 or close to it every year, and that is when you have to throw people open, tight windows, defense coming to get you."

Four teams since 2006 have won at least seven games in a season while allowing more than 28 points per game: the 2013 Bears (8-8) and the Saints' teams from 2012, 2015 and 2016, who all finished 7-9. The pressure on Brees has been enormous.

"The guy is dominant," an offensive coordinator said. "He is a 1. He can throw to win. If they had any defense for the last five years, we wouldn't even be questioning his '1-ness.' He'd have won another Super Bowl."

Dissenters said they thought Brees was declining physically to the point that he'd be in trouble if not for having spent so much time in the same offensive system. One offensive coordinator said Brees' arm is betraying him when the 38-year-old quarterback is forced to throw without anticipation. An evaluator said he thought Brees appeared less comfortable in the pocket and was in "panic mode" more frequently.

"I think some of it is that the line has tailed off a little bit," another evaluator said. "And then I think his ability to extend plays is down a little bit. He wasn't known for it, but he was pretty good at it, in and outside the pocket. But I think he is still a really high 2."

The first 48 voters were split 24-24 as to whether Ryan belonged in the first or second tier. The final two ballots -- one from a secondary coach and another from an offensive coordinator, both of whom have extensive experience against Ryan -- pushed him into the bottom of the top tier for the first time.

"Until last year, I probably would have put him in the 2s, but I think you can put him in the 1 category," the secondary coach said. "I think he stays there. He is not a young guy anymore, but I think he is still getting better experience-wise and seeing things and being that much more comfortable running the show."

Cam Newton narrowly missed the top tier last summer while coming off his 2015 MVP season. Ryan had a better shot at clearing the hurdle, if only narrowly, because he has been the more consistent passer. It is true, however, that Ryan has generally needed an effective running game to perform at a high level consistently.

"I feel like he is a little more scheme-protected," an exec who placed Ryan in the second tier said. "I'm tougher [on QBs] to get into the 1s."

The standard that Rodgers and especially Brady sets for the top tier made it tough for some to include Ryan in the same grouping.

"I don't see Ryan being that guy consistently," a personnel director said. "He is talented and he can wing it. Last year was a good year for him. He got the ball out. His receivers played big and they had a big-play, explosive offense. But you can start putting hits on him. Brady can take a few hits and he will start to get you, and if you hit him, you may think you've got him, but those guys strike back and get you. My experience with Ryan, if you hit him enough -- like if you look at the Philadelphia tape -- it is not as pretty."

Ryan tossed only seven interceptions last season, about half as many as he typically throws in a season. He attempted 33.4 passes per game, his lowest average since the first two years of his career, when efforts were made to shelter him from risk. An offensive coordinator said he thought Ryan got away with risky throws last season. Voters also thought Kyle Shanahan called plays as if he were clairvoyant. Will the production fall off with Steve Sarkisian taking over for Shanahan?

"I don't think Ryan will fall off," a head coach said. "He has good talent around him. Those backs help. Some of the stuff in the play-action game, he did that well. They had a good chemistry going. Ryan is old enough where he kind of knows now. He has had a taste of it. I'm sure the head coach and Sark will make sure they work within his wheelhouse there."
 
Tier 1

  • T-1. Tom Brady
  • T-1. Aaron Rodgers
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Drew Brees
  • Matt Ryan

Tier 2

  • Andrew Luck
  • Derek Carr
  • T-8. Philip Rivers
  • T-8. Matthew Stafford
  • Russell Wilson
  • Eli Manning
  • Cam Newton
  • Kirk Cousins

Tier 3

  • Dak Prescott
  • Joe Flacco :'(
  • T-16. Carson Palmer
  • T-16. Marcus Mariota
  • Jameis Winston
  • Andy Dalton
  • Alex Smith
  • Carson Wentz
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Sam Bradford
  • Jay Cutler
  • Tyrod Taylor

Tier 4

  • Trevor Siemian
  • Mike Glennon
  • Colin Kaepernick
  • T-29. Blake Bortles
  • T-29. Paxton Lynch
  • Brian Hoyer
  • Jared Goff
  • Tom Savage
  • Josh McCown
  • Brock Osweiler
  • Cody Kessler

Many voters think Wilson needs a strong running game to function at a high level and cover for his short stature. Others give him more credit as a pocket passer and point to his late-game effectiveness as evidence he's not just another dual-threat player who wilts when forced to become one-dimensional.

"To me, with a Cam Newton or Marcus Mariota, when the offense is running and they have the play-action game, then now we have to respect both aspects and they are effective," a defensive coordinator said. "When you make them one-dimensional and you can bring pressure and mix coverages, they become less effective. Wilson is different. He can drop back in the pocket, he can read coverages, he knows where to go with the ball, and that is what separates him from them, in my mind."

The job got tougher for Wilson last season with no productive running back, a drop-off along the offensive line and multiple leg injuries suffered early in the season. An analytics director said Wilson regressed because the offense around him regressed, and because the Seahawks asked him to do more, leading to more chances for negative plays.

"I'm not sure he is going to sit in the pocket and sling the ball to beat you," a defensive coordinator said, "but he is scary when he has the ball in his hands. It is hard to separate him from the run game, the defense and Marshawn [Lynch] and all that."

A GM who placed Wilson in Tier 3 wasn't surprised to learn that Seattle allowed 17 or fewer points in 54 of Wilson's 92 career starts, counting playoffs. That is 59 percent of his games, the highest rate for any of the 30 quarterbacks with at least 30 starts since 2012, Wilson's rookie season. The rate is less than 33 percent for the other 29 quarterbacks on that list. Wilson's efficiency played a role in the opponents' low scores, but those are games Tier 3-4 quarterbacks win at roughly the same 80 to 90 percent rate as their Tier 1-2 counterparts win them. At the other extreme, Washington allowed 17 or fewer points only six times in Kirk Cousins' 42 starts (14 percent).

"Russell is between a 2 and a 3 for me," a pro personnel director said. "He got a little bit exposed last year, but he also got beat up early in the year, which I think kept him from advancing like you have seen him advance as the season went on. I think what we are going to see is Russell in the pocket more, just because he is getting the crap beat out of him. He can throw from the pocket. It is a matter of giving him throwing lanes. It is not like he has an elite group of receivers, either."

Manning leads the NFL in fourth-quarter comeback victories and game-winning drives since entering the league in 2004. He has also won two Super Bowls. He also ranks third behind Rivers and Bortles in most interceptions during the past three seasons and is No. 1 by a wide margin in that category since 2010 (Brady is 19th and Rodgers 20th in that seven-season period).

"Eli is very tough for me [to evaluate]," a head coach said. "Some days he is a 1, some days he is a 4. He is all over the place. He has to have a guy [he trusts as a receiver], and when he has a guy, he is really good. The guy has to have a good wingspan, a catching radius. That doesn't mean he has to be big. He just has to be very, very sure-handed because the accuracy is a little off."

The Ravens are first in defensive EPA and second in points allowed since Flacco joined them in 2008. They are 12th in points scored and 13th in Total QBR in that period, which lines up pretty closely with where Flacco ranks in this survey as a Super Bowl winner who has usually had an excellent defense on his side.

"I don't know what to think on him," a GM said. "I've never been impressed with the way he reads the field and the decisions he makes. He can throw the deep ball well. He is too inconsistent. He is certainly not a 1. He is either a 2 or a 3. I say 3."

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