For follower of the Quran or those with Knowledge of it.

[And Step]

Actually it is both. There is figurative and literal sometimmes they overlap. Similar to precepts in previous scriptures from around the globe.
The Quran actually has many scientific unveilings in it.

The process of childbirth is described to the letter in the Quran. The formation of rain clouds. The fact that every living thing has water as it's base. Plant Pollination. just to name a few. All this from a people who were ignorant as hell and a man who couldn't read nor write and traveled no farther geographically than the midwestern US.

You also have to remember that it is not even disputable from the 8th century on to about the 14th the greatest advancements in science and math were made by Muslim scientists who adhered to principles of the Quran. Algebra, Astronomy, Architecture just to name a few. These people just a few short years before were ghetto fabulous.

Those two verses you quoted about stars and lower heavens in my judgment could be both. Replace stars with enlightened people who have accepted a revelation and lower heavens as just that a lower level of existence, I think you would have something you would work with. The study of every nation on earth past and present would reveal enlightened men of who appear in times of great trouble and difficulty and contribute to the advancement of the oppressed and the ignorant to the chagrin of unjust rulers . The Quran acknowledges people like this have appeared in every nation regardless of land, language, or label. It doesn't hide behind religious dogma as it acknowledges that knowledge can be gained from anywhere and anyone regardless to their affiliation.

The Quran makes the claim that some of it's verses is decisive and some of it is allegorical. It further makes the claim that the wicked will never access the deeper meaning because of the corrupt nature of their heart.

In short, the Quran is deep if properly understood.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Props for the knowledge.

1 more question on one I really ain't got a clue on.

And He has made subject to you the sun and the moon,
both diligently persuing their courses;
and the night and the day has He (also) made subject to you.
-- Sura 14:33

Here it is saying that the sun, moon, day, and night are subject to us. This is literal, I see no way around it. The issues I have are
1.) The Moon and Sun have their own course. They are not subject to us, nothing we do can move them or throw them off course.
2.) Day and Night are not something we control. We cannot block the sun, we cannot keep the sun shining on our section of Earth. How would this be subject to us? Again both are something we don't control.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

what did you think the response would be?

of course theyre going to call anything ridiculous a metaphor

but they only started doing that AFTER scientific research showed that their literal interpretations, which they taught children for centuries, were impossible

 

[And Step]

Props for the knowledge.

1 more question on one I really ain't got a clue on.

And He has made subject to you the sun and the moon,
both diligently persuing their courses;
and the night and the day has He (also) made subject to you.
-- Sura 14:33

Here it is saying that the sun, moon, day, and night are subject to us. This is literal, I see no way around it. The issues I have are
1.) The Moon and Sun have their own course. They are not subject to us, nothing we do can move them or throw them off course.
2.) Day and Night are not something we control. We cannot block the sun, we cannot keep the sun shining on our section of Earth. How would this be subject to us? Again both are something we don't control.

Well according to the translation you quoted it does say they pursue their own courses. This verse does not advance the argument that average men can do this. It says WE made them subservient. It is speaking from the vantage point of an omnipotent creative force, not a degraded man.

And yes, Sun and Moon are subservient to us if we learn how to harness their power, which we have in some instances. Solar powered energy is real and exists. The Moon serves as a time indicator and helps with the balancing of the tide and ripening of crops.

We once couldn't fly, communicate or see people who weren't in our physical proximity, light our homes without the sun, etc.

Give us a little time............

 

[And Step]

what did you think the response would be?

of course theyre going to call anything ridiculous a metaphor

but they only started doing that AFTER scientific research showed that their literal interpretations, which they taught children for centuries, were impossible

What literal interpretations are you talking about here?

 

[ThaChozenWun]

So some of the prophecies in the Quran have yet to come true and will in the future. Interesting.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

So some of the prophecies in the Quran have yet to come true and will in the future. Interesting.

of course, just keep waiting, it's certainly not made up horse shit

 

[And Step]

So some of the prophecies in the Quran have yet to come true and will in the future. Interesting.

That is why they are called prophecies.

Prophecies if you know human nature and history you can predict many things. Happens all the time. Big Mama sitting on the porch does it alot.

 

[And Step]

of course, just keep waiting, it's certainly not made up horse shit

Some have already come true within the last 1400 years. Prophecy is not mysterious and spooky, it is just being aware and knowledgable of people and circumstances, nothing more nothing less. What you think business forecasting is?

 

[ThaChozenWun]

That is why they are called prophecies.

Prophecies if you know human nature and history you can predict many things. Happens all the time. Big Mama sitting on the porch does it alot.

But there are also many wrong prophecies. So how can you decipher what will and will not happen. Big Mama aint always right unless its the hoodrat down the block or that little bad ass kid from across the street.

The Quran does not fool, it does admit it is written by man. Where these prophecies inspired by god though? If they were they would have to become correct at some point.

Maybe people should just go ape shit and do what they want, because for them to become true we would have to alive to witness and achieve them, so no matter what, we can never destroy ourselves or the world until each prophecy is fulfilled.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

What you think business forecasting is?

I think it isn't inherently attached to superstition and myth, like "prophecy" is.

Islam is just as false as the two religions it ripped off.

 

[And Step]

But there are also many wrong prophecies. So how can you decipher what will and will not happen. Big Mama aint always right unless its the hoodrat down the block or that little bad ass kid from across the street.

The Quran does not fool, it does admit it is written by man. Where these prophecies inspired by god though? If they were they would have to become correct at some point.

Maybe people should just go ape shit and do what they want, because for them to become true we would have to alive to witness and achieve them, so no matter what, we can never destroy ourselves or the world until each prophecy is fulfilled.

If you dictate a letter to your secretary , Is it her(no misogyno) letter or yours?

Prophecy doesn't haven't to be seen or witnessed by you to be fulfilled to be true.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

If you dictate a letter to your secretary dictates your letter, Is it her(no misogyno) letter or yours?

Prophecy doesn't haven't to be seen or witnessed by you to be fulfilled to be true.

It would be my letter, so by your statement the prophecies relayed are those of Allah's and therefore must all come true.

And to built onto my question, If no man is around to witness prophecies that include them in the act how is it fulfilled?

 

[And Step]

I think it isn't inherently attached to superstition and myth, like "prophecy" is.

Islam is just as false as the two religions it ripped off.

LOl. You don't know business men very well. They are probably along with scientists, the most non mythiical and non superstitious people on the planet. Remember Scientists work for Business men, and have been their bitches for centuries. Prove me wrong.

And Islam didn't rip off two religions. It is the same "religion" just a little further down the timeline. Walmart in 1950 is not the same as Walmart in 2010. But it is still Walmart.

 

[And Step]

It would be my letter, so by your statement the prophecies relayed are those of Allah's and therefore must all come true.

And to built onto my question, If no man is around to witness prophecies that include them in the act how is it fulfilled?

Well yes. If the Quran makes the claim that it is from the Creator. Which it does. Any book that makes that claim should.

I dont undertsand your prophecy question, maybe I am not reading it right.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Well yes. If the Quran makes the claim that it is from the Creator. Which it does. Any book that makes that claim should.

I dont undertsand your prophecy question, maybe I am not reading it right.

If a prophecy is given from a god, not gods as in me and you, but the average persons god as in all powerful all knowing heavenly being. If it gives a prophecy it must come true.

If a prophecy is made that involves man doing something, that would mean that no matter what man does it can not kill us all off until that prophecy is completed. If we all die and no man is alive, then the prophecy would then be false because there is no man around to make it come true. So Prophecy including man must occur with man being involved. Meaning that we can do whatever to ourselves and the world and it will never fail us because we must be here until that prophecy occurs.

All books speak of an end times. So why do we even work to better our lives or the future of later generations. If the world will come to an end anyway, why even work to stop global warming. Why even worry about oil spills and such. Mankind will all go at some point, so why worry?

 

[And Step]

If a prophecy is given from a god, not gods as in me and you, but the average persons god as in all powerful all knowing heavenly being. If it gives a prophecy it must come true.

If a prophecy is made that involves man doing something, that would mean that no matter what man does it can not kill us all off until that prophecy is completed. If we all die and no man is alive, then the prophecy would then be false because there is no man around to make it come true. So Prophecy including man must occur with man being involved. Meaning that we can do whatever to ourselves and the world and it will never fail us because we must be here until that prophecy occurs.

All books speak of an end times. So why do we even work to better our lives or the future of later generations. If the world will come to an end anyway, why even work to stop global warming. Why even worry about oil spills and such. Mankind will all go at some point, so why worry?

Ok. I get it.

Religions speak of the end of the world. World is not Earth. Those are two different things. World implies systems and institutions. i.e. business world, educational world, sports world, etc.The present way of doing things will be no more. Doesn't mean that humanity will disappear.

 

[judahxulu]

Ok. I get it.

Religions speak of the end of the world. World is not Earth. Those are two different things. World implies systems and institutions. i.e. business world, educational world, sports world, etc.The present way of doing things will be no more. Doesn't mean that humanity will disappear.

Key point @ the bolded.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

LOl. You don't know business men very well. They are probably along with scientists, the most non mythiical and non superstitious people on the planet. Remember Scientists work for Business men, and have been their bitches for centuries. Prove me wrong.

I said isn't and it looks like you thought I said is.

And Islam didn't rip off two religions. It is the same "religion" just a little further down the timeline. Walmart in 1950 is not the same as Walmart in 2010. But it is still Walmart.

Religion and department stores are two different categories of human behavior.

Wal-Mart is about making money by screwing labor.

Religion is about making money by saying "I received a prophecy in a cave when nobody else was looking! I swear!"

lol at anybody who actually believes in that shit

 

[And Step]

I said isn't and it looks like you thought I said is.

Religion and department stores are two different categories of human behavior.

Wal-Mart is about making money by screwing labor.

Religion is about making money by saying "I received a prophecy in a cave when nobody else was looking! I swear!"

lol at anybody who actually believes in that shit

My bad. I see my mistake in the business comment.

WHo said belief exclusively under girds religion? There are principles that are contained in the Quran that are very sound. Why you think European Nations are courting Islamic Banks? The source of revelation(whether you believe it or not) is not in question here. Examine the principles. Don't try to sidetrack the issue with dismissive retorts.

Religion and department stores are not mutually exclusive. Economic development and monetary systems are part of some religious expressions. I can show you in the Quran, where there are economic edicts and principles that govern society. The Quran doesn't separate religion from the affairs of men. Education, Economics, Social order, Jurisprudence, Government, etc are a few issues addressed, in this book.

I can show you whole nations, educational systems, systems of jurisprudence, economic systems that have sprung up, survived, and flourished because of adherance to the Principles of the Quran. Quranic governing and economic principles have outlasted Marxism. Fact. Marxism started as a belief system. Fact. LOL at people who hold on to Marxism like it was anything more than a belief in unproven theories. Which he hijacked from other sources by the way, but that is another can of beans.

" To Tell the truth man, your crew don't want it, if you feel you can swing it, then money please bring it"- Phife Dawg