Bucher VS Broussard:Better dynasty shot, Heat or Thunder?

[Mumo X]

CB: I'm saying Miami can be a dynasty with or without Oden. If he can play, they'll be unstoppable. Your contention that they won't be as good defensively with a lumbering big like Oden is ridiculous. During the regular season, when they started Dampier and Ilgauskas, they had one of the top three defenses in the league. Their great D didn't begin in the playoffs. And -- I meant to mention this earlier -- Haslem is far from over-the-hill, as you seem to suggest.

As for OKC, as you know, they may have trouble keeping that team together financially. With big money already committed to Durant and Kendrick Perkins for several years, they've got to pay Westbrook, James Harden and Serge Ibaka. I hope they can keep their team together, but that's far from guaranteed. Beyond that, there's the very real question of whether Westbrook will be able to develop into the point guard they need. As we saw in the playoffs, his poor decision-making is detrimental in a tightly contested playoff series. Scott Brooks, a good coach, also raised questions about his ability to lead a team to postseason greatness. His lack of offensive imagination and his club's woeful execution was far from "dynastic." It's a stretch, to say the least, to pick them as a dynasty-in-the-making over Miami.

RB: The Thunder are going to have to make some tough financial decisions, no question. I don't expect they can keep everyone. But they'll be working under the new parameters. Surely you're not saying they'll have a harder time re-signing their guys under the new rules than Miami will have adding guys with a payroll already locked in at $65 million-plus for the next five years. The Thunder also went to the conference finals with their top two stars, Kevin Durant and Russ Westbrook, all of 22 years old. You've given LeBron James eight years to find his game and even though he still isn't complete, you insist he still has time to find a post game and a midrange sweet spot. But you're going to predict Westbrook's flaws, three seasons into his career, will forever hamstring both he and his team? An All-Star who helped lead his team to the conference finals in his third year? You're going to have to explain that one to me, especially considering Westbrook's work ethic is twice that of LeBron's. Then there's Serge Ibaka and James Harden, both 21. Let me repeat: THEY WENT TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS with four main players who aren't old enough to rent a car without mom's signature.

As for the Heat's defense, I couldn't care less what worked for them in the regular season. That's not when dynasties are built. And it's not as if they didn't give Magloire and Big Z a look during the playoffs. They went away from them because they couldn't provide playoff-caliber defense. Suggesting their defense won't be as good playing a lumbering big isn't ridiculous. Unless, of course, you're suggesting their defense in these playoffs would be better if they were playing Damp or Jamaal or Big Z. Now that sounds ridiculous.

CB: First of all, this isn't about Oden. But just to combat your ridiculous claim one last time -- adding a physical 7-footer with natural defensive instincts to the Heat lineup (one who can also finish around the rim) -- would undoubtedly make their defense better. How you can suggest otherwise is head-scratching.

As for OKC, I haven't said Westbrook will never learn the position. I'm just saying it's a huge question mark, a much bigger question mark than any of the Big Three in Miami. And as long as the Thunder lack a legit post scorer, they're going to be vulnerable in the playoffs. At least, Bosh can score in the post to some degree. Also, the Thunder haven't proved to be anything special defensively. Until you see them become formidable on that end, you should cut out the dynasty talk.

thoughts..........................

 

[Mumo X]

RB: So Oden is not essential to the Heat being a dynasty but "It's a wrap" if they do happen to get him? He's the only specific element you've cited as a reason the Heat will get better than they are right now, but this isn't about him. Yeah, you also mentioned the Heat will be better just by being together longer. Here's the problem with that: You then have to apply the same logic to Chicago and Oklahoma City, whose talent is actually considerably younger and has far more room to grow. Those teams also have more fiscal flexibility moving forward to address whatever weaknesses they might have. No matter what the new deal is, the Heat are in worse shape because they already have more money committed. As for Bosh being a post-up threat, I guess if you consider catching the ball 17 feet from the basket and either shooting a jumper or driving to the rim posting up, then, sure, he can do that. Back to the basket? Kevin Durant has a better post-up game than Bosh does right now. Besides, I don't know if you noticed, but the last four teams standing didn't have a traditional post presence, while teams with a good or great one went home early; why does not having one make the Thunder "vulnerable"?

The Thunder are certainly an unknown quantity in many ways, but considering their youth, degree of success and arc of improvement, I see that as a positive, not a negative. These aren't the Grizzlies, guys with histories that make you nervous to bank on them. KD, Russ & Co. have consistently displayed all the rudiments for success -- focus, work ethic, character -- along with a hayloft load of talent. True, the Heat are more fully formed at this point, but that also would suggest they're closer to their ceiling. Who among the six I mentioned can be expected to take the kind of huge leap we can reasonably expect from Russ, KD, Harden and Ibaka? Or is that where the seventh Heatle, Oden, enters? But I almost forgot -- this isn't about him.

As for OKC not having a formidable defense, then I guess we have to say Miami doesn't have one either -- since the two teams' defensive field goal percentage in the playoffs was nearly identical -- and the Thunder actually are significantly better at defending the 3 (seventh among playoff teams, while the Heat were 14th). As I noted at the start, I'm more than happy to cut out the dynasty talk, since there's reason to believe parity will reign supreme for the foreseeable future. But if we are, we need to start by cutting it out with the Heat, since they're the least equipped to deal with what's around the corner.

CB: Chicago has financial flexibility? With Boozer, Noah and Deng making big money, and Rose certainly about to get the max? And Taj Gibson, a must keeper, set to get paid at some point? Bosh has displayed a more than adequate post game when utilized, whether in Toronto or the few times they post him in Miami (blame that on Spoelstra). All the Heat need -- and this admittedly is a big one -- is some mental growth. If they get that, they can dominate the next few years. If they don't, shame on them.

OKC's defense was good in the playoffs and maybe that's a sign that they can turn it on, because it wasn't good in the regular season. I like the Thunder and I hope they do blossom; I'm just saying that if I had to pick the team most likely to form the next dynasty, I'd go with the Heat.

RB: The Bulls have far more cap flexibility than the Heat. Rose will be extended under the new CBA, which, if the owners get their way, means he'll only make $4-5 million more than he's making now. Same goes for re-signing Taj Gibson. Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah are their only other long-term contracts. On the mental-growth front, I have as many concerns about the Bulls as I do the Heat, which is why I favor the Thunder's dynasty chances. I don't have any doubts about Rose, but Noah and Boozer unraveled under pressure and Chicago already has invested in them. As several of these Mavericks have shown us -- Dirk, first and foremost -- there's always a chance for someone with work ethic and character to grow from his failures, so I'm not closing the door on anyone, though I'm not sure what else the Heat's weak links have to go through to toughen up.

The very guy you doubt -- Westbrook -- is the biggest reason I like the Thunder going forward. He has taken an absolute beating from critics since he entered the league and simply keeps coming. Whether it was P.J. Carlesimo not playing him after he was the fourth pick in the draft or that 3-29 start in OKC or this recent playoff run where so many suggested (falsely) that he was sabotaging the Thunder with his aggressiveness, I've yet to see Westbrook show any signs of self-doubt or fragility. He looked at the league's leading scorer and basically said, "I'm not going down waiting for you to get yourself open or take something more than a 28-foot off-balance 3." Me, I like that attitude. The pro game isn't about being liked or magnanimous; it's about taking the opponent's lunch, by any means necessary. Dynasties can't be built on cornerstones faint of heart anymore than a skyscraper can remain sturdy with a milk crate in its foundation. I'll take my chances with the guys who, so far, are bloodied but unbowed.

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[Swiffness!]

Greg Oden?

Skip was right, this nigga Broussard sounds like Lebron's publicist. They should run a disclaimer every time he appears on ESPN....

 

[Co_Town_Michael]

I'm sure Chris Broussard can tell you what Lebron's dick taste like if you were ever curious.
(no homo tho)

 

[htowntx]

Am I the only one that read this shit in broussard's and bucher's voices? Lol

Yeah but bucher was sonning maverick carter, I mean Chris Broussard

 

[Mister B.]

I'll still say the Heat.

None of their core is going anywhere for the next 4-5 years. Locking up Mario and making him the starting PG really only one legit starting hole - Center. If they get Oden, and he can stay healthy for more than one half, they should be #1 in the Est for at least the next 3-4 years.

As for the Thunder, they should be #1 in the West if not next year, definately 2012-13 for the next 2-3. Their only problem will be locking up Westbrook - and calming that nig down in the playoffs. If they can do this, I see Miami vs. Thunder for the title at least three times over the next five years...with Miami winning the chip at least twice.

 

[CoolJoe]

The Heat....

 

[S2J]

smh Yall arent really Basketball fans...carry that shyt to Bossip or MTO...

Fact is, the question was between OKC and Miami: Nothing else

Bucher himself isnt even convinced in OKC, rather he uses most of his argument to shyt on the Heat, even mentioning Chicago...for whatever reaosn.

the media has lost all objectivity...

And on Oden, people who are OBJECTIVE all agree that Oden is intriguing b/c he will be relatively cheap, and look no further than Tyson Chandler to see how young Bigs can take time to develop

 

[CoolJoe]

Does Chris Broussard only report on the team LeBron is playing for at the moment, the fuck.

 

[CoolJoe]

smh Yall arent really Basketball fans...carry that shyt to Bossip or MTO...

Fact is, the question was between OKC and Miami: Nothing else

Bucher himself isnt even convinced in OKC, rather he uses most of his argument to shyt on the Heat, even mentioning Chicago...for whatever reaosn.

the media has lost all objectivity...

And on Oden, people who are OBJECTIVE all agree that Oden is intriguing b/c he will be relatively cheap, and look no further than Tyson Chandler to see how young Bigs can take time to develop

If Oden can stay healthy he could possibly be a solid pick up for Miami.
He won't stay healthy though.
So it's a moot point.

 

[S2J]

If Oden can stay healthy he could possibly be a solid pick up for Miami.

He won't stay healthy though.

So it's a moot point.

If Joakim Noah can avg 12 and 12, (and 9 and 8 in the playoffs smh) but still be looked at as this MVP-like, untradeable commidity he has become, Greg Oden can give them 10 and 10...

Thats all im sayin. The bar for starting Centers is so low, to think Oden is beyond reproach is funny to me.

 

[CoolJoe]

If Joakim Noah can avg 12 and 12, (and 9 and 8 in the playoffs smh) but still be looked at as this MVP-like, untradeable commidity he has become, Greg Oden can give them 10 and 10...

Thats all im sayin. The bar for starting Centers is so low, to think Oden is beyond reproach is funny to me.

I agree with that.
I just don't see the nigga being healthy throughout an entire season.

 

[Mumo X]

I'll still say the Heat.

None of their core is going anywhere for the next 4-5 years. Locking up Mario and making him the starting PG really only one legit starting hole - Center. If they get Oden, and he can stay healthy for more than one half, they should be #1 in the Est for at least the next 3-4 years.

As for the Thunder, they should be #1 in the West if not next year, definately 2012-13 for the next 2-3. Their only problem will be locking up Westbrook - and calming that nig down in the playoffs. If they can do this, I see Miami vs. Thunder for the title at least three times over the next five years...with Miami winning the chip at least twice.

thunder got this. They hav all the pieces, now its jus gettin that experience plus internal development is key. We dont hav no glarin need unlike Heat. Okc wil win more ships than the heat.

 

[motrilla]

OKC is going to be a problem all of their core players are in their early 20's and getting significantly better.

You can see them taking the steps young teams do before they win it all. 1st round loss in 2010,Confernce Finals this year, Next year watch out.

 

[KeepOnPushing]

i dont see either team being a dynasty.....

 

[Mumo X]

i dont see either team being a dynasty.....

why? I dont see any team beatin those two next yr. Whats so hard to see?