10 Commandments - Thou Shall Not Murder

[Drgoo0285]

well.. earlier it just says the people were worshiping the calf. Moses came and asked who ever would stand up for God to rally with him. The levites came with him. it never said they were innocent it just that they would stand up for God when asked. They killed the 3,000 to purge their tribe of the unrepentant people, and the plague was the punishment for the people who worshiped the calf but "repented"

 

[Chike]

inb4people try to justify wars by trying to differentiate murder from killing.

 

[Drgoo0285]

it is also interesting to think about the differences in the old and new testament. In the old God would tell people to kill the un-godly. In the new testament the un-godly almost always kill the people of God

 

[VIBE]

inb4people try to justify wars by ignoring the 1rst commandment

What does that have to do with murder though? I see God punished with a plague, which isn't murder. But these people, who God never said to kill, killed. Moses made that decision on his own and it seems like he liked to do that in the bible.

I understand the what is being stated, but why murder when there's a Commandment against that? It wasn't self defense, it was anger and hatred and jealously - all that lead to "sins" correct?

@Drgoo, they repented why the fuck mistreat them? So that means ain't no one gonna get away without a scratch then. I repent God! "I don't give a fuck, I'm still gonna strike you down with something horrible!!!"

Fucking joke bro, seriously.

 

[Drgoo0285]

@Drgoo, they repented why the fuck mistreat them? So that means ain't no one gonna get away without a scratch then. I repent God! "I don't give a fuck, I'm still gonna strike you down with something horrible!!!"

Fucking joke bro, seriously.

well they weren't killed. They just had some hardships.
Even in everyday life. If you are caught doing a crime 9 chances out of ten you'll get punished for it even if you are repentant for your actions. You'll have less of a chance to get the maximum if you show remorse.

they didn't get the maximum

living through a plague > being stabbed to death.

 

[VIBE]

well they weren't killed. They just had some hardships.
Even in everyday life. If you are caught doing a crime 9 chances out of ten you'll get punished for it even if you are repentant for your actions. You'll have less of a chance to get the maximum if you show remorse.

they didn't get the maximum

living through a plague > being stabbed to death.

So what kind of message is this for believers today? Even if you repent, you aren't forgiven. God holds a grudge and will make you pay. So there is no actual forgiveness at all.

 

[Drgoo0285]

So what kind of message is this for believers today? Even if you repent, you aren't forgiven. God holds a grudge and will make you pay. So there is no actual forgiveness at all.

What kind of message would it send if all you had to do was repent ,you could do anything you wanted and you suffered no consequences for your actions?

 

[shootemwon]

"Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man from the one you pray to."

-George Carlin

/thread

 

[VIBE]

What kind of message would it send if all you had to do was repent ,you could do anything you wanted and you suffered no consequences for your actions?

Isn't that what forgiveness is? If I forgive my child for breaking a glass cup, should I still punish them? No, especially if it's only once which seemed to be the case here.

Now if it's repetitive, I see a punishment.

So if I ask for forgiveness, I repent, I'm still going to be punished by an all-loving God who "understands". How does that work?

 

[ThaChozenWun]

"Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man from the one you pray to."

-George Carlin

/thread

Reopen thread

GOAT COMEDIAN

/thread again

 

[alissowack]

When people sinned in the Old Testament, it wasn't as if that at one point in life that they were morally without sin...then they do something that is considered sin. Before the Ten Commandments, man didn't know that they were sinners in the eyes of God. The commandments are not just rules you have to follow. It also serves as a reminder of man's standing with God.

 

[Drgoo0285]

Isn't that what forgiveness is? If I forgive my child for breaking a glass cup, should I still punish them? No, especially if it's only once which seemed to be the case here.

Now if it's repetitive, I see a punishment.

So if I ask for forgiveness, I repent, I'm still going to be punished by an all-loving God who "understands". How does that work?

my guess is you do not have/work with children. A punishment does not mean you are not forgiven. it teaches kids there are consequences to your actions.

If you caught your teenage son selling crack for the first time wouldn't you punish him?

 

[VIBE]

my guess is you do not have/work with children. A punishment does not mean you are not forgiven. it teaches kids there are consequences to your actions.

If you caught your teenage son selling crack for the first time wouldn't you punish him?

Your guess is wrong, I have 3 children. I don't punish my children on the first time, it's after I have to tell them more than 2 times I punish them. They're kids, what you tell them 20 minutes ago is completely gone out of their mind. Anyways...

It's not about who punishes who, we're talking about a God who is supposedly "all-loving". This magician in the sky says you can ask for forgiveness and it will be forgiven, correct? If you are "forgiven" then why are you still punished by this all loving God?

If you punched me and said, "Oh VIBE forgive me", I'll say "No problem" then I punch you in the face, would you consider I just forgave you or acted like an asshole?

God is an asshole if he forgives then punishes. Might as well state, "No I don't forgive you, I punish you". There is obviously no forgiveness with God. Why do we ask for it then? It's bullshit and that's shown here. You stated they repented for the idol, which means they had to have asked God for forgiveness - that obviously fell on deaf ears and God didn't give a fuck.

BTW, why is God punishing them for something that isn't a moral?

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

These aren't morals but rules for a jealous God. But yet they got punished for it, but something that was actually broken in morality was murder...

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

These are truthfully the only morals there are in the 10 Commandments. Everything else is just a rule for God. The last Commandment about coveting your neighbors shit is basically along the lines of do not steal or commit adultery.

So only 3 real things for morality, the others are rules for a jealous God.

So with that said, God punishes easily for something so petty - a rather petty human emotion. I can easily forgive someone for something this petty, most humans can excuse a lot of shit without punishment. Yet God cannot let this golden calf go? Really? This petty idol was deserving of 3,000 dead and the others plagued? That's laughable.

God shares a petty ass human emotion, really? The same man who knows everything, created everything and all but yet cannot let a golden calf go but allow murder - as long as it's in his name?

This is bullshit, lol it really is. Think about it, God is a human concept, God is in our minds. God shouldn't have these human emotions, God should be greater than that. He isn't, obviously.

Murder in his name - SURE, OKAY!!!

Worship a golden calf - kill people and get struck down with some sickness.

Does that sound right to you? You think a court would allow murder but put you in prison for a golden calf?

HEY, what about today? Why aren't people being killed for their idols?

 

[alissowack]

If being a sinner is just about comitting a crime against God, then it would be difficult to accept God's Forgiveness if it doesn't stop you from getting punished. However, I believe it is not. Also, if "all-loving" is suppose to mean that God is this infinite bundle of happy emotions, then I would be disappointed, too. I believe differently about this. To even put it in common terms, there is something "fake" about people who seem to be "loving" all the time. No matter how much someone hates their guts, they just turn around and smile and say, "I love you". They have no sense of the reasons for why someone might be upset. They may be in denial of their own insecurities so they make like insults don't hurt. Something is wrong with the world and it's going to take more than a bunch of "I love you"'s to fix it.

 

[Drgoo0285]

HEY, what about today? Why aren't people being killed for their idols?

Well one the differences between, the new and old testament are at work here.

Old testament was about psychical things you had to do to become holy i.e. sacrifices, food laws, and such . Humans could not do anything in themselves to be holy, so God gave us his son to be punished and die for our sins . We then become holy because Jesus changes our hearts.

So under the old covenant it was more about a holy nation. In the new covenant it's more about being holy individuals.

Now, if Bob down the street is worshiping an idol, you just pray for him...

 

[Drgoo0285]

If being a sinner is just about comitting a crime against God, then it would be difficult to accept God's Forgiveness if it doesn't stop you from getting punished. However, I believe it is not. Also, if "all-loving" is suppose to mean that God is this infinite bundle of happy emotions, then I would be disappointed, too. I believe differently about this. To even put it in common terms, there is something "fake" about people who seem to be "loving" all the time. No matter how much someone hates their guts, they just turn around and smile and say, "I love you". They have no sense of the reasons for why someone might be upset. They may be in denial of their own insecurities so they make like insults don't hurt. Something is wrong with the world and it's going to take more than a bunch of "I love you"'s to fix it.

this...for real

 

[The Lonious Monk]

inb4people try to justify wars by trying to differentiate murder from killing.

Murder by definition is unlawful killing. If you are killing at the behest of the highest ranking authority, as part of a legally sanctioned conflict, or under circumstances where killing is legally permissable you by definition are not committing murder.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

I've asked this question before in regards to god and his commissioning killing and his own killing:

If you were to teach someone not to kill, would it better to only kill righteously or to have never killed at all?

 

[Jabu_Rule]

Murder by definition is unlawful killing. If you are killing at the behest of the highest ranking authority, as part of a legally sanctioned conflict, or under circumstances where killing is legally permissable you by definition are not committing murder.

Tell that to the Nazi's. They were killing whole sale at the command of their leader. Most went to the hague

 

[John Prewett]

Your guess is wrong, I have 3 children. ....................

Wonderful.

Did you give them any rules when they were toddlers ["don't go out of the yard alone"]

that you rescinded when they became older ?

Are you pleased when they show faith in you ?

Would you be pleased if they thought you a liar ?

Are you concerned when one of your children mistreats a sibling ?

Do you want your children to "love one another" ?

While they were toddlers, did you think they could understand anything/everything you knew ?

Concerning the death/killing of OT:

Do you realize that from God's POV, "death" is just a transition ?

That our physical life in this world is but a "drop in the bucket" ?